Simple question about Van Winkle bourbon

[bmajazz]

If the Van Winkle family is upset about the resale market on their bourbon and wants the "everyman" and hopefully enthusiasts to be able to procure it, is there a way for us SB'ers to be able to negotiate something directly? I know the three-tier spirits distribution system makes it hard for individuals to purchase directly from distillers. But surely there's something we could do! Some sort of subscription, like 2 bottles each? One to drink now, one to keep for later. Maybe it would be a bit like those "wine of the month" clubs.

Or maybe we could make our own "Van Blankle" by going in on a barrel... Van SBlankle?

I'm just thinking aloud as a result of mulling some of the issues surrounding the PVW availability. I don't even have it on my radar because it's so unlikely to surface for a reasonable price.

[Restaurant man]

Unfortunately that ship had sailed. Private barrels of Vanwinkle are a thing of the past. Vanwinkles don't control who gets the bottles and distributors need to make big commercial customers happy with an allocation (however small). We are the little guy. I'm ok with that

[jmj_203]

Probably hard to believe but even only being really into bourbon since last year I have no interest in ever trying this. I enjoy bourbons I can find, and I especially like ones that fly under the radar, are affordable, and are only known about by the true fans who know how good they are. I can't stand the hipster mantra surrounding PVW, and how everyone who gets into whiskey even temporarily has to talk about pappy. they jumped the shark a long time ago, and I wouldn't even buy one at MSRP if I saw it. Its just a huge turn-off how they've used a cool-guy campaign to boost this shit up. Christ its buffalo trace juice.

[bmajazz]

Well, that's true. I've enjoyed S-W OWA 7/107, OF BiB 1992, 1950's, 1960's, OF prime 86 from the 70's, and probably a few others. I'm curious to experience the current ORVW also, because I have an older 15yr S-W bottle that I'd like to compare it against.

I agree about the hype, and about not buying into it. However, most of my friends, when they have 1/2 oz of knowledge and drink bourbon, are talking about the PVW and the others. So sue me if I'm at least a little curious!

[HD 335]

Yep, like RM said... private selection are a thing of the past. I believe at one time SB did get to pick out a 23 year. Someone correct me if I'm mistaken.

Probably hard to believe but even only being really into bourbon since last year I have no interest in ever trying this. I enjoy bourbons I can find, and I especially like ones that fly under the radar, are affordable, and are only known about by the true fans who know how good they are. I can't stand the hipster mantra surrounding PVW, and how everyone who gets into whiskey even temporarily has to talk about pappy. they jumped the shark a long time ago, and I wouldn't even buy one at MSRP if I saw it. Its just a huge turn-off how they've used a cool-guy campaign to boost this shit up. Christ its buffalo trace juice.

I completely agree with you and also do not hunt for PVW. I was fortunate to go into a bar that had both the 15 and 20 year at a very reasonable price so I tried those. But if personally ever stumbled across one at MSRP, I wouldn't even think twice and buy it. So if you ever see one, buy it for me then :cool:

[cowdery]

Your question is based on a false premise. The Van Winkle family is not "upset about the resale market on their bourbon and wants the 'everyman' and hopefully enthusiasts to be able to procure it." Family members often marvel at what has happened with their brand, but they are not upset about it.

[PaulO]

I keep wondering, a lot of the OWA and W12 has dried up. Is stock being held back for a tsunami of PVW in the future? It makes business sense. The only risk could be consumers tastes changing in the time it takes. We could even end up with another glut.

[bmajazz]

Your question is based on a false premise. The Van Winkle family is not "upset about the resale market on their bourbon and wants the 'everyman' and hopefully enthusiasts to be able to procure it." Family members often marvel at what has happened with their brand, but they are not upset about it.

I think I got the idea off a bourbon blog. The supposed anger came from the perception of the secondary market, and to the "flippers" who clear stock out of retail stores to resell it, denying availability to the 'everyman'. I can't find the original source. I stand corrected!

[BootsOnTheGround]

Your question is based on a false premise. The Van Winkle family is not "upset about the resale market on their bourbon and wants the 'everyman' and hopefully enthusiasts to be able to procure it." Family members often marvel at what has happened with their brand, but they are not upset about it.

Thank you!

Id like to buy you a decanter set with no Pappy juice in a pretty wood box but I'm short $850.

[Guy Debord]

The only way to prevent the secondary market is to have each store demand that customers who buy bottles of PVW crack the seals before they leave. Who could even enforce such a thing, I don't know, but it would prevent resale. No one on ebay would buy a Pappy with a cracked seal. Stores could also enforce a limit of one bottle each to prevent massive hoarding and flipping.

I think the antique collection blows Pappy away, both are hard to find and both cost more than I am willing to spend. I stick to what is available and under $40.

[clingman71]

Semi related: I'm starting to see a VW "backlash". It's as if those who are upset that it is difficult to find and the secondary market's "tactics" are questionable, decide that they don't want it, or it is over rated. "I didn't want it anyway"!

I have been lucky to get a bottle of a variant each of the last few years. Regardless of hype and scarcity, it's damn good bourbon. Not trying it when you have the opportunity? You are doing yourself a great disservice. My 2013 ORVW 10/107, that I got at retail ($39.99), is as good as anything I purchased last year short of HHSS. Is it the only great bourbon out there? Hell no. Is it the " best"? That's a dumb notion in the first place, flavor is subjective. "Favorite" is a more accurate term. It is, however, excellent whiskey that any bourbon lover should seek out at least once.

[nd2005]

Semi related: I'm starting to see a VW "backlash". It's as if those who are upset that it is difficult to find and the secondary market's "tactics" are questionable, decide that they don't want it, or it is over rated. "I didn't want it anyway"!

That backlash has been going on here for quite some time. You forgot the other big excuse "It used to be good but that was just when it was S-W juice"

[clingman71]

That backlash has been going on here for quite some time. You forgot the other big excuse "It used to be good but that was just when it was S-W juice"

You are correct. We all know that BT juice is junk!

I kid of course. '13 Old Rip has me confident in VW for the future. IMO, the retailer selections of OWA that I have been purchasing of late have been on point as well. The boom may be a double edged sword as far as availability, but overall it is a great time to be a bourbon lover.

[ethangsmith]

Probably hard to believe but even only being really into bourbon since last year I have no interest in ever trying this. I enjoy bourbons I can find, and I especially like ones that fly under the radar, are affordable, and are only known about by the true fans who know how good they are. I can't stand the hipster mantra surrounding PVW, and how everyone who gets into whiskey even temporarily has to talk about pappy. they jumped the shark a long time ago, and I wouldn't even buy one at MSRP if I saw it. Its just a huge turn-off how they've used a cool-guy campaign to boost this shit up. Christ its buffalo trace juice.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[wadewood]

No.

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[The Black Tot]

I still believe that large groups of people cannot sustain an attention span for very long.

Whiskey goes in and out of fashion. I will outlive the public's obsession with PVW. It will again be on shelves. And when it happens, I will chuckle at the flippers who held out for more and more, only to find their collections come down to earth in value.

Throughout it all, I also believe it will always have been fine bourbon, as the motto says.

[squire]

With the affluent consumers obsession with having the best I don't see the demand for Pappy slackening in the foreseeable future.

[bin31z]

I doubt the Van Winkle family is upset by their unavailability since they are selling garbage like pappy van winkle shirts, belts and hats. Everything but the bourbon.

[nd2005]

I still believe that large groups of people cannot sustain an attention span for very long.

Whiskey goes in and out of fashion. I will outlive the public's obsession with PVW. It will again be on shelves. And when it happens, I will chuckle at the flippers who held out for more and more, only to find their collections come down to earth in value.

Throughout it all, I also believe it will always have been fine bourbon, as the motto says.

With the affluent consumers obsession with having the best I don't see the demand for Pappy slackening in the foreseeable future.

I think hipsters and millenials have exceptionally short attention spans.

Already the narrative has turned from "Have you tried Pappy? It's the most amazing whiskey in the world!" to "This is so stupid, no one can even find the stuff".

I think in a few years the fad run will die down, like all other fads before it.

[bin31z]

Like 800 bucks for a gift box made with staves from a pappy barrel. HA:rolleyes:

[tylermke]

I still believe that large groups of people cannot sustain an attention span for very long.

Whiskey goes in and out of fashion. I will outlive the public's obsession with PVW. It will again be on shelves. And when it happens, I will chuckle at the flippers who held out for more and more, only to find their collections come down to earth in value.

Throughout it all, I also believe it will always have been fine bourbon, as the motto says.

Scotch has not seen a decline of any sort in the past few decades. If that's any indication, it's going to be a long time before we see bourbon take a hit.

As long as FR keeps putting out reasonably priced barrel proof products, you won't hear me complaining.

[The Black Tot]

With the affluent consumers obsession with having the best I don't see the demand for Pappy slackening in the foreseeable future.

Yes, but there are many categories of "the best" for them to focus on.

These few years bourbon has been in their crosshairs. Maybe in a few years it will be back to single malts or be more focused on cigars or whatever else.

Also, I believe the Van Winkle family of products has been heavily slammed by what one member here called "$30K millionaires", who will eventually have their rug pulled out as an inevitable function of mathematics.

There isn't as much disposable cash out there as many of the heavy spenders think there is right now, and I think a lot of BTAC and Pappy is currently bought with plastic.

Edited August 20, 2014 by The Black Tot

[The Black Tot]

Scotch has not seen a decline of any sort in the past few decades. If that's any indication, it's going to be a long time before we see bourbon take a hit.

It is a very useful indication indeed. Bourbon was the last to rise, and will also likely be the first to fall when what went up, must come down.

[cowdery]

The Pappy craze probably will continue as long as large numbers of new people keep coming to the bourbon enthusiasm because, inevitably, there are among the newbies always a few people who want to cut to the chase. "What's the best bourbon?" That's all they want to know. And as long as people keep answering that question "Pappy Van Winkle," it will continue.

[The Black Tot]

Already the narrative has turned from "Have you tried Pappy? It's the most amazing whiskey in the world!" to "This is so stupid, no one can even find the stuff".

I think in a few years the fad run will die down, like all other fads before it.

This. He said, stretching it past 16 characters.