brettckeen Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 http://www.consumer-classactions.com/investigations/internet-scam/have-you-purchased-small-batch-whiskey/I think we all knew where the LDI stuff came from for years now. Folks like High West honestly put it on the back label. This is crazy and advertised all over my facebook wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Seagrams 7 is small batch? Learn something new every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblinman Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Seagrams 7 is small batch? Learn something new every day.Its been comical for a while, its just ridiculous now.I wish Beam/JD and some of the other mega brands would proudly proclaim big batch, and consistency in every bottle, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Yeah, our millions of satisfied customers are onto something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbroo5880i Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 McDonald's takes pride in billions sold. It was a matter of time before a class action lawsuit. OK, so say I did purchase one of these products. I drank it, recycled the bottle and don't have a receipt. Can I still participate in the lawsuit? I say this in jest. I have no interest. How would I know if I fell into the "and more!" category? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 It's just the legal equivalent of a gill net, set it and see what you catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sku Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdery Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 The interesting thing is 5.36(d) violators are breaking a federal law involving required disclosure, which could make a prima facie case for deceptive practice. Defense that labels were approved by TTB won't stand if they knowingly submitted non-compliant labels for approval. Hard part might be proving consumer harm. But it's not completely insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richnimrod Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 But it's not completely insane.Certainly not near it for the attorney's who vacuum up several (hundred?) thousand 'damaged'-class folks willing to participate on the off-chance of a few bux in their furure. Seems like an exercise in futility for all but the lawyers.... But, then again, it's the lawyers who always win in these suits. Even if no action results they can garner some pub for standing up against the BAD guys of big business (and/or the fibbing craft business little guys) ripping off consumers. In the end who was really damaged by any of this????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrel800 Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Funny that this flops a few weeks after the big article that has been circulating. While I certainly don't like what these distilleries are doing, I certainly am not going to lend my name to a bunch of lawyers who will walk with all the money and I'll get a coupon or whatever. Besides, since I was in the know when I bought the brands I bought, I certainly don't feel taken advantage of, nor do I have any financial loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Speaking as a consumer I want accurate labeling so I will know what I'm buying. Deceptive practices (if not outright frauds) are widespread among whisky producers and if it takes a lawsuit to straighten them out then so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulO Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Isn't it true that "small batch" has no legal definition? Anybody can call whatever they please small batch. Seagram's 7 is labeled blended whiskey. For what it is, I don't see any deception. I have purchased a number of the items from the list. Bulleit, Dickel, and probably a few others list distilled in Lawrenceburg, IN on the label. Those companies are being honest. I read the label, and knew what I was buying. On the other hand, we know of at least one brand, maybe more on the list that don't list where the product was really distilled. There is indeed deception if people pretend to make something, conceal the true source, make up stories... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Yes it's true small batch has no legal definition and means no more than "Super" or "Xtra" on a laundry detergent label. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brettckeen Posted August 16, 2014 Author Share Posted August 16, 2014 Squire how would feel about DSPs on all bottle labels? (distillation DSP and Bottled DSP just like a bonded) Interestingly every case of bourbon/rye i receive at the bar has a DSP on the case (where it was bottled). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Tot Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I am pretty sure we would all love DSP numbers on every bottle, both for bottling and distillation.tbt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Yes, I've long advocated for DSPs (both distiller and bottler) as well as their addresses on the label. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadewood Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 The brands they listed were about all mentioned in this article or the comments on article - http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/28/your-craft-whiskey-is-probably-from-a-factory-distillery-in-indiana.htmlDiageo/Bulleit do state Distilled in IN on Bulleit Rye. High West does NOT state where distilled on their bottle label. They are very honest about on their website and in person. The 5.36 (d) does not directly apply to blends and their products are blends. I agree with Chuck that a case could be made against known 5.36 (d) violators. But the big guys like Diageo could not be included and chasing lawsuit money from a bunch of financially strapped small craft distillers probably would not be profitable enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhowell Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Sometimes I am ashamed of my chosen profession. I hate f'ing attorneys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbroo5880i Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Is it about the use of the term "small batch" or more about not identifying the actual distiller? It seems more of the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry in WashDC Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Sometimes I am ashamed of my chosen profession. I hate f'ing attorneys.Oh, yeah - strike suiters. I have a vague recollection (consistent with this thread) of joining a class action suit against a phone company because, after reading the complaint, I figured we had a pretty good chance of winning. I sent in my several years' worth of paper bills (a prerequisite to getting a share). A couple years later, the case settled. I got a voucher good for a portion of the purchase price of a cellphone sold by the phone company. Because I had no use for a cell phone, particularly one on a network offered by that phone company, the voucher was worthless to me. The law firm got several hundred thousand dollars. On the other hand, the phone company did revise its billing, thus saving me an estimated 23 cents a month. [ASIDE: All numbers are approximate; this is from the best of my recollection. I may be totally off here. Please, phone company, don't sue.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutton Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 The interesting thing is 5.36(d) violators are breaking a federal law involving required disclosure, which could make a prima facie case for deceptive practice. Defense that labels were approved by TTB won't stand if they knowingly submitted non-compliant labels for approval. Hard part might be proving consumer harm. But it's not completely insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdery Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 I'm an attorney and don't care for lawyers who trump up class action suits strictly to generate revenue without doing any good for anybody, but if we want these guys to start obeying the law, and TTB keeps its head in the sand, nothing motivates like a lawsuit.I also agree that there's no money to made from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaJeff Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 The Des Moines Register, true to form, picked up the "Templeton as Potemkin" story about 5 years too late and ran it on the front page today. http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/2014/08/26/templeton-rye-iowa-indiana/14604225/ And of course, only after the Daily Beast ran a similar story. The article mentions the possibility of a class action. It's an interesting idea. I'm not usually a big fan of class actions (I'm actually involved in defending one now), but this would fit the model of seeking to remedy a small, incremental harm and force a change in business practices. Like Chuck said, the difficulty may be in proving some consumer harm. I do think that TR has greatly benefitted from the fiction that it is made in Iowa, probably more than any other supposed craft distiller. TR will claim that the whiskey industry is rife with tall tales, and they are right. Their tall tale goes further, however, and violates the Regs. I'd be willing to put the Capone story in with the other whiskey tales and folklore, but not where and how it is made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 The Capone story is bunk anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Tot Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 I once drank bourbon and fell down. I think I did this with rye, too.What do you guys think? Can I retire on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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