why 86 proof?

[393foureyedfox]

Ive often wondered....why do so many bourbons offer themselves at 86 proof? why 86? I can understand 80, 90, 100, etc., but who came up with the number 86 and why, and why did it catch on across most of the distilleries? tax reasons change past the 86 proof range, or what?

[squire]

My theory is long ago an enterprising merchant discovered he could water down his goods to 86 proof and still get whisky prices for it.

[smokinjoe]

Is this the one that has to do with the English measurement of proof, and the conversion too Murrican? Or, is that something else? I can't remember...:crazy:

[suntour]

I wonder the reason also but have actually found this to be roughly my sweet spot for enjoying whiskey. Clearly every whiskey is different and some drink better at different proofs (and I'd rather find that spot myself than have nowhere to go) but I find it remarkable how much more watery 80 proof seems than 86. I wonder if 86 stuck because it sounds better than 80, the .99 cent phenomenon.

[squire]

I expect it does go back the old English system where a gallon of 100 proof spirits was equal to 114 proof American spirits. 114 is still considered 'Navy Proof' in the modern Brit trade and crops up occasionally in a Bourbon bottling as well.

[jburlowski]

Related question: why is Hancock's President's Reserve bottled at 88.9 proof? Is 89 proof too strong? :grin:

[Jackinbox]

I thought I read that anything over 86.8 proof got taxed at a higher rate. I'm not sure if that's still the case or not, but I'm pretty sure that used to be the reason.

[Flyfish]

Related question: why is Hancock's President's Reserve bottled at 88.9 proof? Is 89 proof too strong? :grin:

[fishnbowljoe]

I may be completely off base here, but I think history might have something to do with it too. IIRC, before Prohibition, there were numerous BIB/100 proof iterations available. During Prohibition, the sprits that were either illegally made here in the US, or found their way here from Canada, were lower proof/watered down and "sweeter". Americans seemingly got used to these lower proof offerings, and after Prohibition was repealed, actually preferred them. I also believe that another factor involved was the fact that without enough sprits to keep up with demand, cutting to 86 proof was another way to provide more whiskey until production geared up to meet the demand, and stocks were somewhat replenished.

[squire]

Yes, years ago alcohol taxes were set up in proof brackets (100, 86, etc.) and while that was modernized by 1980 it's still true to an extent in foreign markets which is one of the reasons Makers Mark is sold at 80 proof abroad.

[squire]

I also agree with Joe's summation. The 86 proof whiskys imported (smuggled in) during Prohibition completely changed American consumers taste for, and acceptance of, lighter flavored lower proof blended whiskys.

[smokinjoe]

Dang, if we only had a Certified Spirits Specialist available to clear this up...Or at least, an anal retentive bourbon drinker...

[Quintilian]

This is an interesting thread.

Since there's a current bourbon boom happening, I wonder if there will be a stronger desire of higher proof bourbons from the drinking public, and this demand will push proofs higher.

However, with there being a real or imagined bourbon shortage, that might create stasis with proofs.

[BourbonJoe]

I think the distilleries just want to piss me off. First there was 100 proof and they scwewed the pooch down to 90 proof, which was barely acceptable. Then they screwed the pooch down to 86 and others to 80. When they done this they properly pissed me off, and I let em know it. But, in their scheme of things, I'm too small to matter. But I'm still pissed, and they know it. Whiskey is best when it goes from the barrel to the bottle, and they keep their god-forsaken fingers (and filters) off the stuff.

Joe :usflag:

Edited September 1, 2014 by BourbonJoe

[393foureyedfox]

I think the distilleries just want to piss me off. First there was 100 proof and they scwewed the pooch down to 90 proof, which was barely acceptable. Then they screwed the pooch down to 86 and others to 80. When they done this they properly pissed me off, and I let em know it. But, in their scheme of things, I'm too small to matter. But I'm still pissed, and they know it. Whiskey is best when it goes from the barrel to the bottle, and they keep their god-forsaken fingers (and filters) off the stuff.

Joe :usflag:

+1

I wish HH would give us a 7-8 year old barrel proofer for $50, like Beam does with Booker's, and make it easily available. Dont mention ECBP, thats too old for barrel proof to me.

[squire]

I would settle for 8 years and 100 proof.

[Quintilian]

Any idea how old EWBiB is? Probably 4 years, right?

[dcbt]

I would settle for 8 years and 100 proof.

Hell, 8 years and 90 proof is becoming fewer and farther between...

[Flyfish]

This is an interesting thread.

Since there's a current bourbon boom happening, I wonder if there will be a stronger desire of higher proof bourbons from the drinking public, and this demand will push proofs higher.

However, with there being a real or imagined bourbon shortage, that might create stasis with proofs.

It seems to me that increased demand gets translated into lower proof to stretch supplies so as to meet that demand. Newbies may not know the difference. For that matter, in a blind tasting, I'm pretty sure I can't tell the difference between 90 and 86.6. At the same time, we have lost some great bourbon (think AAA 10YO) because well aged stock can be diverted to higher priced lines.

[squire]

Any idea how old EWBiB is? Probably 4 years, right?

About that, yes. Heaven Hill does a balancing act that keeps prices low by providing some brands with higher age/lower proof (Evan Williams black label) or lower age/higher proof (Evan Williams white label) using the same mashbill whisky for both.

[kickert]

Here in Southern Africa, 43% is the standard proof of spirits. I don't know why, but gins, whiskies, brandies, etc. are almost always at 43%. I wonder if it isn't a classification rule somewhere (Europe?) that sets a minimum proof and it has just carried over. I have never noticed, but next time I am in a store, I will check on staples like Jack and Jim to see where they come in at.

[squire]

Yes, please do, our 'standard' Bourbons have proofs adjusted for overseas markets and I would like to read some tasting notes.

[Enoch]

I expect it does go back the old English system where a gallon of 100 proof spirits was equal to 114 proof American spirits. 114 is still considered 'Navy Proof' in the modern Brit trade and crops up occasionally in a Bourbon bottling as well.

This is basically what I read somewhere. It's why OGD came in 100, 100+14=114 and 100-14=86. But the numbers were based on this conversion.

[MauiSon]

Here's some data:

36% ethanol by weight = 43.0% ethanol by volume

43% ethanol by weight = 50.6% ethanol by volume

50% ethanol by weight = 57.8% ethanol by volume

I think that first equation speaks volumes.

[Affinity for round numbers]

Edited September 2, 2014 by MauiSon

[squire]

Apparently the producers believe 80 is the new 86.