Willett's as a brand does not interest me at all

[bin31z]

Any Willett's product is pretty much an automatic pass for me. People say that a company like Willett is similar to the independent bottler of Scotch. Not at all, independent bottlers state the distiller, barreling date, bottling date, type of cask it was aged on every bottle that they sell. In America, the source of the bourbon or rye is almost never identified, we just get a mystery bourbon or rye with an age statement with some random barrel number that means nothing. People wax poetically about how good a certain 25 year old bottling is but what's the point?? I'm never going to be able to find that same batch in stores because who knows which barrel it came from. Take for example the 10 year Michter's rye. I hate the fact that you can read a review that says is the best stuff on earth and then they will say that it only applies to a certain serial number or batch number etc. As a consumer, I want to be able to know that what is in a bottle is consistent with what I have purchased before or what I see being review online. I don't want to play a guessing game when buying $100 bottle of bourbon.

The other thing is that their 2 year old expression that regularly sells for $50 is junk. The bottle wasn't terrible at first but as I have had it opened, the Rye started to give off rotten fruit notes. The palate is very simple as well. I have almost completely stopped wanting to drink it. The audacity to release a 2 year old rye for almost double the price of a bottle of Evan Williams single barrel or the same price as a bottle of barrel proof four roses private selection. I could go on about the better bourbons that are aged over 10 years that can be bought for less.

In conclusion, I think this company is just riding the bourbon boom wave and gouging customers and should be avoided as much as possible. You can throw Black Maple Hill and many other craft "distillers" into this group as well.

[GaryT]

Certainly entitled to feel that way. Couple of points though.

Your statement that "I'm never going to be able to find that same batch in stores because who knows which barrel it came from." is incorrect (the WFE label includes the barrel number, so if you did find one you liked a lot - you could try to find more of it). It isn't "some random barrel number that means nothing" (it actually means, well, what barrel it came from). Is there a lot of variability in WFE offerings? Absofreakinglutely! I've had some that were stellar, and some that were garbage (and as such, I won't buy one unless I have tried it, or it comes with recommendations from folks whose palates I trust).

If you're looking for consistency in what you purchase, you shouldn't even look to Even Williams Single Barrel. In fact, I'd avoid single barrel all together. Nothing wrong with wanting/expecting the same thing over time, but with any single barrel bourbon - you are apt to be disappointed.

I agree that $50 is way too much for a 2 year old rye (it is $40 here in Atlanta), but did you buy one? If so, why question their audacity to price it as such? Comparing their 2 yr rye to EWSB is apples and oranges. Hudson Baby Bourbon is $50 for a 375mL, and it is aged for only 3 months - and apparently it continues to sell (clarification - not to me, I don't care for it, and especially not at that price point). But my point is that price has several considerations, and a major one being "What CAN I get for this?" I wouldn't fault them for charging what they think they can get (and anyone who buys one and feels ripped off should ask themselves what they expected from a 2 yr rye?)

For consistency and value, thankfully there are a lot of great options out there (Evan Williams Black Label, Wild Turkey 101, etc). My recommendation though is not to discount everything that doesn't fit into that segment, or you'll miss out on a lot of great whiskey. Nearly every special release is variable from year to year, and is going to be out of whack from a price perspective. Perhaps look for opportunities to try before you buy; and when that doesn't present itself - play it safe and pass on it. Just my two-three cents. Cheers!

[amg]

If they were just "riding the bourbon boom wave" I doubt they would have bothered to start distilling again. They've been bottling other people's whiskey since the mid-1980s (not exactly the "bourbon boom" days) and that business model certainly seems to have been working.

As for gouging, the gift shop price for that 2 year rye is $35, so you'll have to ask your stores why they're charging $50.

[garbanzobean]

I think their labels look neat. That's about as far as I've gotten, though. I'm honestly looking forward to the day they release a Willett-distilled appropriately aged barrel proof bourbon for me to try. If I ever saw a sourced WFE single barrel (barrel proof) bourbon bottling in a store for a relatively reasonable price, I'd probably buy it (once) due to my love of barrel proof bourbon. And the label. Which, as I have mentioned, is neat.

Blind fanboi-ism for Willett has ruined a couple blogs for me as of late. That's disappointing, I suppose. At any rate, if anyone REALLY wants to try WFE's 2yr rye, you should come to Maryland. I can think of 3-4 stores offhand that have it sitting around for $40-$50.

[petrel800]

In all serious, "gouging" gets thrown around here a lot these days almost to the point of it having no definition other than the fact that someone doesn't like the price. It's becoming bit of an entitlement attitude that somehow a buyer is entitled to tell a seller how much they should be able to buy their stuff for.

[BourbonJoe]

If you're passing over Willett's, you're passing over some mighty fine whiskey. There are ways to find out who made what's in the bottle. Anything 8 y/o or older is a must buy for me. Only desperate people by any whiskey under 4 y/o in my opinion, probably to drink under a bridge somewhere.

Joe :usflag:

[bin31z]

Yea I was a little upset because I saw a negative review for the 2 yr rye where the master "distiller" basically dissed the reviewer and told him to not try any of their other bourbons as well because they are all bad.

[Auracom]

If you're passing over Willett's, you're passing over some mighty fine whiskey. There are ways to find out who made what's in the bottle. Anything 8 y/o or older is a must buy for me. Only desperate people by any whiskey under 4 y/o in my opinion, probably to drink under a bridge somewhere.

Joe :usflag:

100% agree, Joe. I've sampled a half dozen or so WFE's and thoroughly enjoyed each of them despite the clear mashbill differences. One tasted like 62% OGD, another one like a 58% BT wheater, etc. Yes... I will never know for sure what the actual juice was, but that ignorance took nothing away from the quality. I'm not a fanboy but I have lots of respect for an NDP that truly gives a shit. And Willett/KBD does.

[bin31z]

If you're passing over Willett's, you're passing over some mighty fine whiskey. There are ways to find out who made what's in the bottle. Anything 8 y/o or older is a must buy for me. Only desperate people by any whiskey under 4 y/o in my opinion, probably to drink under a bridge somewhere.

Joe :usflag:

They might well have some fine bourbon but you won't know if you can get the same product again because their next bottling with same year statement could be a completely different distillate. Plus their 10-15 year old products are all 120 plus dollars.

[Trey Manthey]

I don't dislike the concept of Willett's as much as I do, say Black Maple Hill's, but much less than I do Smooth Ambler Old Scout's, Heavens Hill's, Four Roses', or Buffalo's Trace's.

[PaulO]

... Is there a lot of variability in WFE offerings? Absofreakinglutely! I've had some that were stellar, and some that were garbage (and as such, I won't buy one unless I have tried it, or it comes with recommendations from folks whose palates I trust).

...

The larger stores that buy a barrel often have an open bottle to give samples. Otherwise I would have to really trust that someone else's palate agreed with me to risk $$$. I will say that I have enjoyed the WFE bottlings of MGP rye in the past. Anymore I don't know if 20 more proof makes it worth twice as much as Dickel Rye. I am put off by the whole secretly sourced bourbon scenario; enough so to decline to participate. On the other hand, if I knew (as in DSP on the label) I would whip out the wallet to buy barrel proof Weller or Old Forester. A lot of the fanboy drank the Kool-Aide knuckleheads (not contributors here) probably think Willett makes everything they sell.

[GaryT]

The larger stores that buy a barrel often have an open bottle to give samples. Otherwise I would have to really trust that someone else's palate agreed with me to risk $$$. I will say that I have enjoyed the WFE bottlings of MGP rye in the past. Anymore I don't know if 20 more proof makes it worth twice as much as Dickel Rye. I am put off by the whole secretly sourced bourbon scenario; enough so to decline to participate. On the other hand, if I knew (as in DSP on the label) I would whip out the wallet to buy barrel proof Weller or Old Forester. A lot of the fanboy drank the Kool-Aide knuckleheads (not contributors here) probably think Willett makes everything they sell.

Completely agree on the sampling. I bought an aged rye from their gift shop without sampling it first, and it was an expensive mistake (on my part; not theirs though - the price was fair for what it was). In terms of trusting the palates of others, I'm referring more to fellow SBers or other friends whom I know have a pretty close alignment to my preferences, versus bloggers (excluding those that are in the first group I mentioned!) or on-line reviews. On the WFE, if it is great whiskey, while I would like to know who made it, not knowing doesn't make me enjoy it less (rather knowing would be cool in terms of understanding more about the source, and how different aging/proof influenced it).

Only desperate people by any whiskey under 4 y/o in my opinion, probably to drink under a bridge somewhere.

Joe

And how precisely did you find my secret spot for sipping young whiskey? :skep: Stay away from my bridge!

[bin31z]

I just don't get all the hype about them. I can buy a 10-12 year old age statement bourbon for 30 bucks, why would anyone be excited to spend 3x that on mystery bourbon.

[Lost Pollito]

I just don't get all the hype about them. I can buy a 10-12 year old age statement bourbon for 30 bucks, why would anyone be excited to spend 3x that on mystery bourbon.

How many of those $30 bottles are bottled at cask strength?

[bin31z]

How many of those $30 bottles are bottled at cask strength?

I don't think all wfe are barrel proof. ECBP was 49 bucks when I last bought it. Most all barrel proof four roses is 50 bucks, I just picked one up for 39.99. Bookers ain't that old but it's 50 bucks.

[bin31z]

That's not to say barrel proof bourbons justifies them being priced the way they are. Anyways, don't forget their offerings right now are pretty much limited to their 4 yr rye and 2 yr rye, any other bottling are long gone.

[bin31z]

Also gone are their store barrel selection program.

[Kyjd75]

A counterpoint of view about Willett: http://thebourbontruth.tumblr.com

And the bottle of 2 yr rye I bought at the Willett GS was $35.

[brettckeen]

They might well have some fine bourbon but you won't know if you can get the same product again because their next bottling with same year statement could be a completely different distillate. Plus their 10-15 year old products are all 120 plus dollars.

So buy two bottles so you can have it again.

[brettckeen]

Also gone are their store barrel selection program.

We just got a 21yr barrel for the bar... I'd say it's slowed down but not over for ever.

[Kyjd75]

You can buy all the Willett you want in the $30-49 price range: Pure Kentucky, Rowan's Creek and Noah's Mill.

[brettckeen]

You can buy all the Willett you want in the $30-49 price range: Pure Kentucky, Rowan's Creek and Noah's Mill.

Great point, Pure Kentucky XO and Rowans have been super consistant for the past 5 years. IMHO

[garbanzobean]

A counterpoint of view about Willett: http://thebourbontruth.tumblr.com

And the bottle of 2 yr rye I bought at the Willett GS was $35.

That's nice, but the author is sort of letting his anger at facebook shenanigans get in the way of mentioning that Willett also owns KBD. He paints a very sympathetic picture for the operation, and while I am 100% behind the idea of getting a new distillery online without accruing debt, I don't really see them as victims begging for table scraps. Maybe I'm wrong, but my gut feeling is that the Willett operation is doing okay with the KBD brands in national distribution.

They released a young product under the Willett label. It was a bold choice. Some criticism of the product is legitimate, some isn't. Chances are, the product is similar to any other distillery just coming online (like Kilchoman, especially in its earlier days): It's lovingly crafted and many folks WANT to adore it, but there are age-related flaws that are readily apparent. Some folks love an underdog story and are willing to look past those flaws to see the inherent quality of the spirit, whereas others want to evaluate the product's QPR. I think both perspectives are valid: Willett's in house distilling operation is one I'm rooting for, and I think it will be extremely successful once they have mature spirit ready to go. On the other hand, the QPR for the 2 yr Rye isn't very good.

I truly hope they are saving back plenty of maturing spirit so we don't have to put up with a Bruichladdich NAS style marketing campaign (Bruichladdich can't keep up with mature spirit demands; has gone on a "provenance/terroir is more important than stating minimum age" kick). Early adopters: Congratulations, you just bought the original iPhone. Great concept, no UMTS radio. I'll personally wait for the 3GS, though I would be happy to pay in advance for a 6-8 yr old bourbon if that would help keep them afloat.

.

Edited September 5, 2014 by garbanzobean

[mbroo5880i]

I have enjoyed every Willett WFE product that I have purchased. I didn't have the opportunity to try some of the classics. However, those that I did buy were selected by either by the retailer or a distributor (Crossroads Vintners). I paid between $45 and $85. All the bourbons were barrel proof, 117 proof to 129 proof. The lower priced bottles matched up well with the FR barrel selects. The higher priced bottle matched up well with the FR LEs. I was able to find out some product information from Willett, based on the barrel number, just not the distiller. I have only tried the WFE 4-year rye. Obviously, everyone knows where it came from. I haven't bought a bottle since late last year and it was in the low $30s. I would put it in the same tier as High West Double Rye and Rendezvous Rye, both of which are NDP products. Rye is a little different than bourbon. MGPI/LDI makes a great rye. How it is stored, blended, bottled, etc. is what differentiates the different brands.

I have also tried Johnny Drum, Rowan's Creek, Noah's Mill, Willett Pot Still. None compared to WFE.

[squire]

I don't read blogs unless they've linked here. I think the gratuitous slap at the Van Winkles (who the Klusveens would very much like to be) and comparing Willett to Mother Teresa was a bit over the top.