Willett's as a brand does not interest me at all

[Old Dusty]

I'm already on record here as an unabashed supporter of KBD/Willett. But at this point I have also concluded that I have no interest in trying to "convert" people. If you don't like the NDP game that is fine. Don't buy it. Your money not mine. And if you are hacked off that they had the audacity to release their own distillate at 2 yrs. fine. Don't buy that either. But I hope you are so incensed that you stay away from the 4 yr rye and the straight bourbons in a couple of years as well so there are more bottles for me. And while you are at it leave the 8yr and up WFE "mystery juice" on the shelf too. I will be happy to save you the consternation of tasting consistently stellar barrel proof bourbon.

[garbanzobean]

I'm already on record here as an unabashed supporter of KBD/Willett. But at this point I have also concluded that I have no interest in trying to "convert" people. If you don't like the NDP game that is fine. Don't buy it. Your money not mine. And if you are hacked off that they had the audacity to release their own distillate at 2 yrs. fine. Don't buy that either. But I hope you are so incensed that you stay away from the 4 yr rye and the straight bourbons in a couple of years as well so there are more bottles for me. And while you are at it leave the 8yr and up WFE "mystery juice" on the shelf too. I will be happy to save you the consternation of tasting consistently stellar barrel proof bourbon.

Their labels are undeniably neat.

[smokinjoe]

No real interest for me in general for the Willett labels so far. Yeah, every barrel select is the "Greatest pick of all time!!!"...yadda, yadda, yadda...I've tasted some that were hyped, and were quite nice. But, I've tasted more that were hyped, and walked away thinking, Wha?

But, my interest has been significantly increased with their new release of their own distillate. Loved my first try of their 2yr rye, and really look forward to this whiskey with more age, as well as trying their own distilled bourbons.

[bin31z]

Dipped into some more 2 yr rye. It is just NOT GOOD!! I really don't know how this rye is getting rave reviews....Also just read a guy posting on instagram saying he was so lucky to snap a bottle of their 12 yr bourbon release for 150 bucks. L O L :skep:

[MyOldKyDram]

Haven't tried the rye yet but hope to. May buy one and just put it back for a few years as it would be cool to have a SBS of their 2, 3, and 4 year product.

As to their WFE bourbons, well they pretty much lost me when they doubled their price in the span of a year. I understand why though, and losing me certainly won't hurt them a lick.

[The Advantage]

I don't have an issue with Willett and their NDP stuff. It's more than I want to spend usually so I miss out.

As for the 2 year rye, I think there are so many bloggers and industry types rooting for it to be great that they are overlooking some obvious flaws. This doesn't mean it's a shit rye, but just that it's not great and probably should have been held back longer. That being said, it's not collecting dust on any shelves so I won't question the marketing decision.

If the distiller reacted negatively to a review that didn't praise the 2yr Rye, then he should probably enter a new line of work. Criticism is part of the business and reacting that way will only cause others to ignore your products moving forward.

[flahute]

If the distiller reacted negatively to a review that didn't praise the 2yr Rye, then he should probably enter a new line of work. Criticism is part of the business and reacting that way will only cause others to ignore your products moving forward.

[bad_scientist]

I can't stand the bullpucky KBD puts on their NDP labels, with garbage about their "master distiller", and the column distilled whiskey sold in a pot still bottle is breathtakingly unethical. However, I didn't mind paying $40 for my 2 year Willett rye. It's a blend of two recipes, cask strength, new distillery, etc. It's sufficiently different from other products to justify the price tag, in my book.

That said, I find it undrinkable straight. I drink it with Campari and brown sugar mixed in. Still don't regret the purchase.

[MauiSon]

bad scientist = baa... baa... bad consumer?

Undrinkable straight may still lead to ambrosia in a mixed drink, but @ $40 I want the straight option to be decent, at least.

Edited September 6, 2014 by MauiSon

[bad_scientist]

bad scientist = baa... baa... bad consumer?

Undrinkable straight may still lead to ambrosia in a mixed drink, but @ $40 I want the straight option to be decent, at least.

Hah hah, you may well be right. It's not a repeat purchase, but yeah, I perpetuated the evil.

[tigerlam92]

Willett as a brand didn't enticed me to buy just in general. I only buy very specific bottles that I know are good or great if not it's mostly a pass. I had only bought two bottles of Willett blind. All the many other bottles I have are known to be great or good. I had to buy multiples if I want to drink it again.

But there are some great ones out there though. Not much good ones from our side of the country now a days.

Previously it's all about the person who did the barrel selection and the barrel not the brand. Into the future, their own distillery looks promising.

[Josh]

probably to drink under a bridge somewhere.

Joe :usflag:

Don't knock it until you try it. We got some nice drinkin' bridges around here.

[garbanzobean]

Into the future, their own distillery looks promising.

This is what I try to focus on as well. I honestly wish them the best of luck, though their current pricing scheme for their sourced bottles makes me nervous as to what I'm going to be paying in 2018-2020 when they do have some of their own 6-8 year old bourbon for me to try.

[The Black Tot]

Willett certainly gives us a lot to think about and discuss.

One thing seems clear - they are very good at aging their best whiskeys. They seem to take the distillate of others and really wring some extra quality out of it. That is something we certainly need to value in the whiskey world.

The other KBD brands mentioned have fluctuated wildly in taste profiles over the years. So it's a mixed bag, and when you buy one you like, go back to the store and clean them out.

My problems with them are mostly market-based. They have found they can get higher prices, and so they're charging too much (too much for me, I mean. The market has confirmed that their pricing still moves the bottles out the door). The store selects are good value and seem to be in control price-wise, but the gift shop needs to keep a bag of smelling salts on hand for after you read the price board.

It's obviously working for them, and I wish them all the financial success they can get. But I think I'll have to wait until the next glut to really fill a bunker with good Willett. Which is fine.

I think people should lay off of Drew, though. He clearly has a tough job running a high stakes facility that is going through a lot of changes and growing pains. I think after a few more years when Willett's own distillate is working its way through the rackhouses and supply and demand have stabilized better, we're going to be very lucky that he's in charge (we already are with some of our WFE bottlings).

Putting quotation marks around "master distiller" when it comes to Drew seems to me to be a bit weird, since he has been distilling furiously for 2yrs now - no quotation marks required. He can't use a time machine and start distilling any earlier. A Master Distiller who is distilling most days of the week should be done with people putting quotes around his job title, I would think.

I guess to conclude my only problems with Willett seem to be already working themselves out. Consistency should improve after the transition to the new make works its way through the system, and the high prices that I wish were lower will decrease (adjusted for inflation, of course) down the road when the bourbon market cools, or when the ramped up production of recent years catches up.

I'm glad they're there. And I admit that even though I won't regularly pay for the $200+ bottles, I do look at those 21yr+ products and drool.

Edited September 8, 2014 by The Black Tot

[mbroo5880i]

TBT - you are right. More options are always a good thing. If the price is too much, others can enjoy. The price hits a level we feel comfortable with and we can enjoy.

[squire]

Takes longer than 2 years to become a master at anything.

[The Black Tot]

Takes longer than 2 years to become a master at anything.

I totally agree, Squire. But what is your guess on how many years should it take for the quotation marks to come off?

I get the sense that most people are putting the quotes on for the distiller part, more than the master.

He's certainly quite masterful at developing whiskey in the barrel.

Edited September 8, 2014 by The Black Tot

[393foureyedfox]

a minimum of 6, I say

[squire]

It's not a question of time at all anymore than cooking in a restaurant kitchen for 20 years makes you a master chef.

[flahute]

The quotation marks are usually around the word "distiller", to me, a clear pot shot at their reputation being based on sourced product thus far. Unlike most NDP's, however, they are distilling - and quite a lot at that. Some like to criticize the new 2 year rye. It's obviously young which is not for everyone, but I've seen some pretty experienced bourbon drinkers on this board come out in support of it (for what it is) so it's not "junk" or "crap" as some have assessed (though they are entitled to their opinions of course). For the record, I like it as a unique product, but it's not my favorite rye. I do look forward to older expressions quite a bit. They will be different than LDI which is a good thing.

As for current WFE sourced products, I like them. Yes, they are expensive. No, you don't where they were distilled. At least you know it was in Kentucky (for the bourbons and older ryes), so you know it came from one of the big names. Are they risky? Yes. But I like them because they are unique. They are barrel proof, older expressions of some of our favorites that have had something extra added to them from aging in Willett's rackhouses. They are fun experiences that won't be replicated. I've yet to buy or try a bad one. You can argue that current market prices are not warranted for what you get and I won't disagree. Everyones' threshold for experimentation is different. My personal threshold is OK with ages up to 11-13yrs, but not with the 20+ year versions which go for truly astronomical prices. Now, I would not like it if my entire bourbon experience was composed of the unknowns of WFE. However, with plenty of staples and regulars I've come to love from the major distillers on hand, there's a place on my shelf for taking chances with WFE. And, I look forward to the continued aging of their own distillate for future release.

[nd2005]

I don't have a lot of new thoughts to add as this thread has pretty much swung in all directions. But I'll chip in anyways.

1. The 2 year rye is a $35 product. That's what Willett sells it for themselves, that's MSRP. If someone is selling it for $50 that is (a) on them, not Willett and ( clearly what the market will bear since the stuff is selling out everywhere that gets it. I liked it for what it is. I have an open bottle I'm slowly going through and I just bought two more - I plan on saving one to compare against future releases, and the other I'll probably give a buddy as a birthday present.

2. I have had a lot of WFE bottlings that I like. I don't think they are all 10/10, but they've all been pretty darn good. And I actually like the variety inherent in the product. Until very recently, there just haven't been that many good barrel proof offerings. So having a variety of flavor profiles, at a variety of ages, at barrel proof, is a very appealing product to me.

3. I hate that they've become such a treasured product among the flippers/BX market. It's become extremely hard to find any bottles of the stuff, and it has been gathering some absurd prices. I have noticed that even the retail prices have slowly crept up as well. I think the OP is being a little absurd with his price allegations - the most recent bottle I bought was a very reasonable price - and most of the price creep is thanks to the secondary market, not due to retail pricing. The gift shop prices are definitely high...but Willett is hardly alone in that. Just go a ways down the street to the Heaven Hill shop for some true examples of price gouging.

4. There are some blogs - especially bourbon truth - that have become just about unreadable due to their obsession with Willett.

[sailor22]

It's confusing and challenging because KBD has been double tracking. It makes sense if you understand the variable nature of barrel ageing, but not much sense if your thinking along the lines of a consumer product like, oh, lets say catsup. Batch up the same recipe from the same strain of tomatoes and the catsup tastes the same every time - bingo a consistent product and the consumer gets exactly the same tasting catsup every time. A product requiring barrel ageing doesn't quite work that way.

The majors have huge stocks of whiskey to batch from and that allows them to make a surprisingly consistent product. But in the past barrels that don't fit into that batching program were sold as bulk whisky, often to KBD. So KBD was in the position of batching whiskey for it's labels that wasn't from a consistent source or with a consistent flavor. It didn't make sense to conjure up a new label for every batch so you got a smomewhat inconsistent product behind the same label. Understandably some consumers were unhappy when their new bottle of Pure Ky. or Corner Creek etc. didn't match up with their older one.

But KBD has been bottling both inconsistent sourced whiskey behind labels that are meaningless AND bottling some excellent single barrels selected by discerning tasters with labels that identify them. In fact they were one of the very first to bottle a single barrel that was clearly marked as to barrel number and age, even the bottle yield was noted although the source of the Bourbon never has been. There were single barrel bottlings at retail previous to WFE but with the exception of Blanton's they weren't marked in a way that allowed consumers to source bottles that were guaranteed from the same barrel. This allowed enthusiasts to identify and seek out excellent and unique barrels that were bottled uncut and unfiltered. Pretty sure they were the first to do that. Lets note that they have also bottled numerous single barrels selected by not so great tasters and even just random selections by restaurants and distant retailers that were average to less than average - that failure is on the individuals making the selection, not the bottler.

If a retailer or individual selects a single barrel and it's labeled as WFE and it (to your palate) is excellent you know it won't be exactly duplicated - ever. You also know there are only a very limited number of bottles because that's all that were in the barrel. It's on the consumer to locate, taste and identify those special barrels and buy as many as he thinks is appropriate. As a consumer you have to work a little harder to find something special. It's OK if individual consumers don't think it's worth the effort and clearly some don't but my suspicion is that most enthusiasts are OK with putting the extra work into finding something special.

[smokinjoe]

Dipped into some more 2 yr rye. It is just NOT GOOD!! I really don't know how this rye is getting rave reviews....

I can't answer this as one giving the 2 yr a "rave" review, but I did thoroughly enjoy my initial tasting of the 2 yr. "NOT GOOD" leaves a lot to interpretation. If you're saying it's not good to your taste, and that you did not like it, that is reasonable by any measure. If you're saying that it is "NOT GOOD", as in it is a poorly made whiskey, then I have to disagree with you. Going in to trying the 2 yr I knew it was going to be youngish...duh. But, what I was looking for in it was it's potential. Even at 2 yrs I think a well crafted whiskey will show the potential of what it will become with adequate time in the barrel. This one did. Many from the craft side, do not. They're not getting better at 4,6,8 or 20 years. First, this rye bloomed a nice aromatic nose with no off putting raw wood notes. Second, the mouthfeel had substance and body. Over the palate it shown what I would expect in it, but the key was there were no off, contrived, or simple alcohol and wood flavors. Finish was pleasing, as well. In all, I believe this whiskey will only get better as it sits, but it was a good release on its own merits. It is well crafted, and they seem to have the process down from start to finish in order to make a quality whiskey. Now, we wait and see if time will give us even better. I expect it will.

All of this tells me that Willett seems to be on the right track with their own distillate from what I tasted here. And, that excites me for the brand going forward. Dozens of "craft" distilled products are just plain crap, and I can find no redeeming value in them. That list is in the dozens in number. But, I have hopes for a couple of the new distilleries that are going forward. One, is in absolute limbo right now. One is very quiet. Another, has disappointed me with what I have tasted in some of their new releases. But, I did like this Willett rye. I hope, and truly expect the older ryes and their bourbons will show as well.

I've never been on the Willett bandwagon of bourbons before for the reasons I listed in my previous post, but am truly optimistic of their label going forward.

[thebwood]

The Willet 2 year old rye is one of the worst whiskeys I've ever tried. My bottle is half full, and seems to have gotten worse as time goes on. I put it into the category of some really putrid cheap blended scotches. The nose has a rotten sewage quality that I've never really experienced before. I simply do not find it appealing in the least. It actually conjures up my gag reflex. That may sound like an exaggeration, but again, I've never experienced a whiskey like this. The palate is marginally better - astringent green apple, but still not great.

I regret buying my bottle and supporting overpriced hype. I don't say any of this to perpetuate internet flame, but this whiskey is simply not worth anything near what it is priced. To me at least. And for the record, I actually enjoy many of Willet's independent bottlings. I'm lucky to live in an area with a couple bars with great selections, and I always look to Willet when I'm in the mood to try something unique and different. Its hard to actually find the bottles for sale, but I'm not inherently opposed to independent bottlings.

[smokinjoe]

Or, this.

:toast: