How old are the oldest barrels at the major distilleries?

[suntour]

Age statements disappearing and demand rising make me think theres not that much old whiskey gathering dust in rickhouses these days. I think often about things like the PHC golden anniversary bottle and that video clip where the heaven hill rep laughingly says that really old whiskey is basically just used as a coloring agent.

Still, many of these distilleries are centuries old, theres got to be some waiting in the wings somewhere. It seems strange to imagine for instance BT aging barrels to 23 years without a few slipping through the van winkle quality control, but what would happen to them? Is the answer to this question "they get sold off to an NDP?"

Sure seems like there wont be much juice to ever get that old these days, unless theres another bust. I bet if nothing else these over aged barrels get archived in some fashion, I know BT has a long-running library of old bottlings.

[squire]

In the past over aged barrels were blended away or sold to a rectifying plant who redistilled the contents into industrial alcohol.

[ramblinman]

I might be completely off the mark here, but perhaps the availability of older juice might be part of whats driving the growth of NAS. Look at the SB weller blend and extrapolate, it doesn't take a lot of older stuff to add nice character and round out the edges of the younger/hotter stuff.

I'd think the oldest, and probably well past their prime, barrels could be used the way canadians do "flavoring" whiskey. Toss some woody tired 23 into something a little over 4 years and it might not be good but it seems like it would make it "feel" a lot older with a pretty small ratio.

[Clavius]

An interesting question, for sure.

I remember in an interview online Julian Van Winkle stated that he had had bourbon over 30 years old. He said that it "didn't make the journey very well." I wish I could find the video.

EDIT: I found the video. At 55:00, "Now, as with any bourbon, it's going to hit a point where it starts--we call it--going over the hill, where it gets too woody, and that's why you don't really see too many bourbons over, uh, twenty-three/twenty-five/twenty-seven years old I think is oldest one out there now. I've tried a thirty- year-old before, and it's--I don't care who made it--it's not going to make it. It's not going to make the trip very, very gracefully."

Edited September 11, 2014 by Clavius

[The Black Tot]

Diageo seems to have no shortage of it at Stitzel Weller

[squire]

Diageo has alot of everything and will figure out a way to sell it.

[BourbonJoe]

I do not believe there is a lot of old whiskey out there. BT is putting 6 y/o juice in Weller Antique and everybody else is dropping age statements at a rapid rate. Oh, there might be 10 barrels here and there for special projects but old whiskey is, IMO, history. Drink it if you got it.

Joe :usflag:

[Richnimrod]

I do not believe there is a lot of old whiskey out there. BT is putting 6 y/o juice in Weller Antique and everybody else is dropping age statements at a rapid rate. Oh, there might be 10 barrels here and there for special projects but old whiskey is, IMO, history. Drink it if you got it.

Joe :usflag:

[squire]

They're not getting any better and we're not getting any younger, seize the day.

[393foureyedfox]

I think Joe is right on the money in guessing it's about gone, especially the idea of suddenly finding enough older barrels to release a brand, that somehow nobody knew were hiding in that rickhouse....puhleeeeze. I really doubt that.

Joe is also extremely correct in recommending that we drink drink 'em up! They aren't gonna get any better, right?

[squire]

The Tax Man keeps very careful tabs on every barrel and it's an expensive no no to lose track of any.

[dSculptor]

Hey Guys,

My input,(as if it means anything) is if you have these ancient barrels, why not capitalize on them, myself as an enthusiast I am always looking for the older stuff, I think it’s a privilege to taste a whiskey that old. I happen to like that woody taste more so than the sweet stuff, and I’m sure there are a lot of other folks out there that agree. Why not sell it as such, and not waste it in any other form, there are always going to be fools like me who’ll cough up the dough for them. Bring ‘em on! (IMHO) mmmmmmm...just finshed me some Barterhouse.:yum:

[393foureyedfox]

The Tax Man keeps very careful tabs on every barrel and it's an expensive no no to lose track of any.

[squire]

Commonwealth of Kentucky taxes every aging barrel annually. Years ago Brown-Forman aged barrels of Early Times in Kentucky for two years then shipped them across the river to Indiana to finish aging while avoiding KY taxes.

[TheOakMonster]

I've wondered about this too, in particular, in regards to the Wild Turkey Diamond release. The Diamond Anniversary is a mingling of 13 year old and 16(?) year old bourbon, right? But, the oldest regular WT release is only ten years, with the primary brands much younger. So, why are they still sitting on very old whiskey (and in the case of the Diamond, it would seem, quite a bit)?

[squire]

WT always seems to have at some 12 year old around when it suits their purpose (a limited edition or as part of the Rare Breed blend) even the occasional 15+ expression but in years past it all went into the mix for WT's trademark 8 year 101 proof which made the brands reputation.

[Quantum]

Hey Guys,

My input,(as if it means anything) is if you have these ancient barrels, why not capitalize on them, myself as an enthusiast I am always looking for the older stuff, I think it’s a privilege to taste a whiskey that old. I happen to like that woody taste more so than the sweet stuff, and I’m sure there are a lot of other folks out there that agree. Why not sell it as such, and not waste it in any other form, there are always going to be fools like me who’ll cough up the dough for them. Bring ‘em on! (IMHO) mmmmmmm...just finshed me some Barterhouse.:yum:

I feel very confident that anyone in possession of "ancient barrels" is doing everything they can to capitalize on them. If they are good enough to be sold as such, they are being sold as such. The only reason they would be used in another form (to add flavor to a younger whiskey), is that they are not good enough to stand on their own. With premium whiskey being a hot commodity right now, they are going to put every single barrel they can into the premium lines.

[sku]

A couple of years ago, I tried a sample from a 30 yo Dickel barrel that was way over the hill. I can't remember if the person who gave me a taste got it from the distillery or a third party merchant.

[squire]

With premium whiskey being a hot commodity right now, they are going to put every single barrel they can into the premium lines.

Yes, yes, and yes.

[dSculptor]

A couple of years ago, I tried a sample from a 30 yo Dickel barrel that was way over the hill. I can't remember if the person who gave me a taste got it from the distillery or a third party merchant.

Do tell us..how did it taste? over the hill?

[jvd99]

With the ramping up or maximizing production going on, coupled with the craze for ultra-aged bourbon, do you think that distilleries are looking down the road and putting away a significant number of barrels specifically to age for 15-23 years? I wonder whether ultra-aged bourbon will be part of the long term business plan or whether some day we will again see big age statements after another glut.

[sailor22]

Several years ago I tasted some Bourbon from some 30+ year old Yellowstone barrels. It was nasty. Dry and bitter, like a mouth full of soggy toothpicks that had been soaked in an rubbing alcohol and campfire ash solution.

To my way of thinking Old Blowhard is the poster child of not handling the extra age well.

[squire]

I expect the Domestic market will saturate, age statements return and over aged stuff go back in the mix or overseas where it has always enjoyed a premium.

[squire]

From what I've heard I imagine tasting 30+ year old Bourbon would be a lot like drinking Balsamic vinegar.

[TunnelTiger]

I really like Balsamic vinegar, but not in my bourbon.