Forty Creek Confederation Oak Reserve

[El Vino]

Curiosity got the better of me. I picked this up locally for $63. I loved the Lot 40 2012 Edition and Whistle Pig, so I decided to give this one a try. Reviews are mixed but generally positive. I had seen Forty Creek products in Texas while traveling on business, but never at home in NJ. Now, Lot 40 and Forty Creek are popping up regularly.

I have a killer day of travel and meetings tomorrow, so this one may have to wait until Friday. Anyone have any experience with this bottling?

[tanstaafl2]

Curiosity got the better of me. I picked this up locally for $63. I loved the Lot 40 2012 Edition and Whistle Pig, so I decided to give this one a try. Reviews are mixed but generally positive. I had seen Forty Creek products in Texas while traveling on business, but never at home in NJ. Now, Lot 40 and Forty Creek are popping up regularly.

I have a killer day of travel and meetings tomorrow, so this one may have to wait until Friday. Anyone have any experience with this bottling?

OK, but a bit overly sweet to my palate which limits the complexity and I tend to have a sweet tooth. But all Forty Creek are a bit like that to me. Aimed at the Crown Royal crowd I suppose.

[Frodo]

I really liked the CO - liked it most of all the Forty-Creek products I've tasted.

[El Vino]

Thanks for the input! I'm looking forward to spending some time with this. That said, it's snowing here, so I may have to back to the store I bought this and pick up the High West A Midwinter Nights Dram to go with it.

[Megawatt]

I took a while to warm up to Confederation Oak but in the end I really enjoyed it. Definitely don't let your first impression be your last impression .

[Josh]

Wah? This is in the US now? Anybody seen it anywhere besides NJ?

[tanstaafl2]

Wah? This is in the US now? Anybody seen it anywhere besides NJ?

The Forty Creek Confederation Oak has been around a while. I have seen it here locally in Atlanta for more than a year. It may be out of stock now in a lot of places. I am not sure if it is a regular item or was a one off.

[Josh]

It never made it to Michigan and I don't remember seeing it in Indiana or Kentucky either but I didn't know it was in the US at all so I wasn't looking for it. I guess I'll keep an eye out for it now.

[portwood]

I am not sure if it is a regular item or was a one off.

[Tony Santana]

Showing up in Wisconsin now, in very limited quantities. Tempted, but don't know much about it. I know everyone's taste varies, blah, blah, but any opinions on whether it's worth mid-60's?

[Megawatt]

It's a subtle whisky with a nice, clean oak flavour and underlying spiciness. If you're not into whiskies with subtle complexity you might find it bland. Here is my little review for your reference: http://www.connosr.com/reviews/forty-creek/forty-creek-confederation-oak-reserve/something-special/

[tanstaafl2]

Showing up in Wisconsin now, in very limited quantities. Tempted, but don't know much about it. I know everyone's taste varies, blah, blah, but any opinions on whether it's worth mid-60's?

[portwood]

There is a new limited edition coming called Evolution. Also in the $60-70 range. Has a heavy wine finish. 3 years in oak and then 9 or so in wine barrels which then may have then been blended with other whisky of unknown age to tame the wine influence (not clear to me what the real details are).

The story is that the distillate spent 3 years in cask and was then re-distilled (yeah, you read that right ... the aged spirit legally already whisky was re-distilled!) and put back in cask for another 9 years.

Innovation, perhaps, but not the kind of thing I want to pay $70 for.

More info here:

http://www.whiskywhiskywhisky.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=204&t=7992

[squire]

It strikes me the only reason to redistill is if you didn't get it right the first time.

[portwood]

It strikes me the only reason to redistill is if you didn't get it right the first time.

That, or he put in some really crappy used cooperage for the first 3 years. Thus one of the reasons I'm not prepared to pay a premium for it.

Edited November 24, 2014 by portwood

[tanstaafl2]

That, or he put in some really crappy used cooperage for the first 3 years. Thus one of the reasons I'm not prepared to pay a premium for it.

The story from a blogger I am not familiar with is what led me to think that not only did he redistill and then age for 9 years in cabernet barrels, but that he then blended it with additional whiskey of unknown provenance before bottling.

The story behind the whisky is 12 years in the making. John had some blended barrels that had married for three years, and he took those barrels and redistilled the product, concentrating the harmonized flavours. John then dumped the redistilled product into his own cabernet sauvignon barrels and packed them away.

It turns out that john hall forgot he had that whisky maturing in cab sauv barrels. In fact, he forgot for 9 years. If you see the warehouse in which he stores his barrels, you can see how easy it is to overlook a few barrels amongst the hundreds of thousands in stock.

So we have those cab sauv barrels now filled with very flavourfull whisky, and so john further blended in some barrels of whisky that john picked out himself to balance out the whisky. he released only 9,000 bottles.

Which is further confirmed on the Forty Creek website:

Most of the whiskies in this bottle began their journey 12 years ago. Initially, these whiskies were aged in American White Oak for 3 years. I then selected the barrels and re-distilled the aged whiskies in my copper pot still to further concentrate their wonderful flavours. This whisky was then re-barreled into French Oak casks that had previously held my Cabernet Sauvignon and aged for an additional 9 years! Finally, I introduced some of my favourite personally held barrels to the mix for balancing.

While I would certainly try it if offered to me I am not sure I am going to invest in one myself. Had hoped it would be at the WoW event earlier this month but unfortunately it was not.

[portwood]

In an industry that we are led to believe is so highly regulated I find it HARD TO BELIEVE any barrel gets forgotten about!!! To this sceptic "forgotten barrels" are marketing speak for "we need a story to justify a higher price"!

The other thing I don't buy about this story is "... re-distilled the aged whiskies in my copper pot still to further concentrate their wonderful flavours."

Common knowledge (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) is that the more you distil, the less the flavour compounds that make it through to the end product. Sooooooooo, by re-distilling a second time, John Hall actually removed flavour the whisky* had already acquired. Second, by diluting the product from barrel strength down to 43% he actually DILUTED the flavour even further rather than concentrating it!

It is because of crap like this that I have become a fierce critic of Forty Creek - the "independent**" distillery that is the darling of many Canadian Whisky fans.

*since it had already spent 3 years in wood it was legally whisky by Canadian standards

** no longer independent since bought out by Campari

Edited November 25, 2014 by portwood

[portwood]

It is because of crap like this that I have become a fierce critic of Forty Creek...

And the reason I will NOT buy the subject of this thread - Confederation Oak - or any other Forty Creek product.

[tanstaafl2]

In an industry that we are led to believe is so highly regulated I find it HARD TO BELIEVE any barrel gets forgotten about!!! To this sceptic "forgotten barrels" are marketing speak for "we need a story to justify a higher price"!

The other thing I don't buy about this story is "... re-distilled the aged whiskies in my copper pot still to further concentrate their wonderful flavours."

Common knowledge (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) is that the more you distil, the less the flavour compounds that make it through to the end product. Sooooooooo, by re-distilling a second time, John Hall actually removed flavour the whisky* had already acquired. Second, by diluting the product from barrel strength down to 43% he actually DILUTED the flavour even further rather than concentrating it!

It is because of crap like this that I have become a fierce critic of Forty Creek - the "independent**" distillery that is the darling of many Canadian Whisky fans.

*since it had already spent 3 years in wood it was legally whisky by Canadian standards

** no longer independent since bought out by Campari

I am certainly not well versed in the impact of distilling but if you redistill something but don't do so to a really high proof isn't it possible to "concentrate the flavor" to some degree as well as increase the proof?

Not that I am trying to justify the value of the events in the lifespan of this particular whiskey. Just curious to know what effect it might have.

[squire]

Ack, high proof off the still stuff aged in used barrels, standard Canadian procedure for their usual blending plonk. "Overlooked" means it wasn't fit to drink and still had to be blended with something else to give it some flavor. 12 is a nice round number so let's make up a story to beguile uninformed consumers and pass off these leftovers at a jacked up price. Good work if you can get it.

[MacinJosh]

Showing up in Wisconsin now, in very limited quantities. Tempted, but don't know much about it. I know everyone's taste varies, blah, blah, but any opinions on whether it's worth mid-60's?

I'd definitely get a bottle for mid 60's. I really enjoyed that one.

[MacinJosh]

Doesn't John Hall use wine making procedures for this whiskey given his background? IIRC he distills each grain individually and then blends them together AFTER they have been barrel aged. For this reason, I put him up there with John Glaser for his blending skills. I was quite disappointed with the Heart of Gold but have really enjoyed his other expressions including John's #1 Private Cask.

Just my $0.02 and YMMV.

[portwood]

Doesn't John Hall use wine making procedures for this whiskey given his background? IIRC he distills each grain individually and then blends them together AFTER they have been barrel aged. For this reason, I put him up there with John Glaser for his blending skills.

JH wants everyone to believe he is the only one in Canada doing this (he calls it "meritage") but the fact is, most Canadian whisky is distilled and blended this way!!!

That is why you often hear about Canadian whisky being a blend of "flavouring whisky" and high proof whisky (referred to by many people as neutral grain spirit).

Edited December 1, 2014 by portwood

[MacinJosh]

JH wants everyone to believe he is the only one in Canada doing this (he calls it "meritage") but the fact is, most Canadian whisky is distilled and blended this way!!!

That is why you often hear about Canadian whisky being a blend of "flavouring whisky" and high proof whisky (referred to by many people as neutral grain spirit).

[squire]

Aging whiskys individually then blending them together has been standard procedure for Canadian Whisky since the early days of the industry when Hiram Walker established the protocol.