Laird Apple Brandy 100 proof No Longer Bonded?

[ramblinman]

Picked up a bottle today, first time I've seen it on the shelf (though I've never looked for it, was just wandering around my favorite shop).

Maybe old news, but it looks like its no longer Bottled in Bond. Still 100 pf, still straight, but nothing else on it. Is this new, or have I just never come across anything about them dropping it?

[tanstaafl2]

Picked up a bottle today, first time I've seen it on the shelf (though I've never looked for it, was just wandering around my favorite shop).

Maybe old news, but it looks like its no longer Bottled in Bond. Still 100 pf, still straight, but nothing else on it. Is this new, or have I just never come across anything about them dropping it?

Sounds new. Have not seen a bottle that didn't say Bottled in Bond on the part on the bottom of the label. But anything is possible.

[ramblinman]

Yep, seems like it then. No mention of bonded anywhere on it that I see.

[tanstaafl2]

Yep, seems like it then. No mention of bonded anywhere on it that I see.

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Which means it could also be younger. BIB implied it was at least 4 years but reportedly was a year or two older in the past. Now presumably there is nothing to keep it from being much younger.

[tanstaafl2]

I emailed the company. We will see if they respond.

[ramblinman]

Which means it could also be younger. BIB implied it was at least 4 years but reportedly was a year or two older in the past. Now presumably there is nothing to keep it from being much younger.

[tanstaafl2]

And no longer being bonded, it seems Brandy has a lot looser requirements than other distilled beverages in the US, http://wordsonwhisky.com/2011/03/28/the-problem-with-brandy/. Have no idea how true that it, but disappointing if so.

Going to the juice itself, I only had a bit in a Glencarin, the nose was great, but on the taste I wouldn't be surprised if they've spiked the whole thing with NGS. Felt thin, without much character, and honestly made my stomach feel a bit sour for the rest of the night. Perhaps that's how it supposed to be, being first time with it I don't have anything to compare it to, but unless its a real standout in some cocktails or changes dramatically with airing I don't think I'll be picking up another.

[Old Dusty]

unless its a real standout in some cocktails or changes dramatically with airing I don't think I'll be picking up another.

I love it in cocktails( at least the BIB version) here are a few to get you going:

Parlour Manhattan

1oz Laird’s Bonded Apple Brandy

1oz Rittenhouse Bonded Rye

.5oz Carpano Antica Formula sweet vermouth

2 dashes Angostura bitters

Old Fashioned

1oz Laird’s Bonded Apple Brandy

1oz Rittenhouse Bonded Rye

2 dashes Orange bitters

1 sugar cube

Apple Cart

Ingredients

1 oz. Apple Brandy

3/4 oz. Cointreau

1/2 oz. Lemon Juice (Fresh)

Instructions

Stir well in a mixing glass and serve over ice cubes in a chilled old-fashioned glass.

Jack-In-The-Box

Ingredients

1 oz. Apple Brandy

1 oz. Pineapple Juice

dash(es) Bitters

Instructions

Shake with ice and strain into a cocktail glass.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Old Dusty

[tanstaafl2]

I got a quick response from Laird's. It would appear the surging interest in brown spirits is not just impacting whiskey. But I applaud them for the rapid and forthright response and hope they can get back to BIB status soon.

Dear Mr. Tanstaafl,

Thank you for taking the time to write to us and thank you for supporting our Brandy.

We have long offered our 100 proof "Bottled in Bond" Apple Brandy. The US Government created the Bottled in Bond Act back in 1897. It was a way

for the government to insure the authenticity of a product. This designation requires:

· A Straight Spirit - not blended with other spirits

· Produced at one distillery

· Produced during one production year

· Bottled at 100 proof

· Aged at least 4 years

· Stored in a bonded warehouse under federal supervision

For many years, we had the luxury of a fully stocked barrel warehouse, with multiple barrels from each year of production. Over the last several years, the demand for our Apple Brandies has surged. As a result, we have depleted much of our reserve barrel stock. For the past two years, we were forced to allocate our straight brandies. This year, we had to blend more than one year's production when making our 100 proof brandy. Using more than one year's production, forced us to take the “Bottled in Bond†designation off of the label. I am told this year’s blend was 5% 5 year, 75% 4 year, and 20% 3 year brandy. Our plan is to replenish our brandy stocks, and in the future, to again use the “Bottled in Bond†designation.

We are very proud of our Straight 100 Proof Apple Brandy this year, and every year, and have every faith you will find it to your liking.

Best regards and Happy Holidays!

Thomas Alberico

VP Sales & Marketing

Laird & Company

One Laird Rd.

Scobeyville, NJ 07724

732 542 0312

www.lairdandcompany.com

[jaycamm]

Love that response. Clear explanation. Giving the percentages was a classy touch. If only the Bourbon Makers were this forthright.

[Ravensfire]

Love that response. Clear explanation. Giving the percentages was a classy touch. If only the Bourbon Makers were this forthright.

You aren't kidding - concise with their reasoning and hope to return. Zero deception on their part.

[ramblinman]

Refreshingly open and honest. I'm now glad I bought the bottle just for that.

And Old Dusty, thanks for the cocktail recs, look forward to trying a few of them

[Gillman]

Nice, it ties in with the anecdote Ted Haigh tells about Larry Laird in his vintage cocktails book (it came out about 6-7 years ago). Haigh had seen an image of a vintage bottle or crock taken at the Laird Distillery and he wanted to use it in his book which is beautifully illustrated with vintage bottles to accompany the old recipes. So he called the company - its roots are very old, not dissimilar to the original Michter/Bomberger - and reaches a receptionist. He tells her who he is and what he wants, and (as he reports it), she calls out, Laaaarrry, someone on the phone for you. So Larry takes the line and Haigh is stunned, here I am speaking to the principal of one of America's oldest distillers. Larry says, "what can I do for you?". Haigh explains his project, and Larry says, "Sure, I'll package it and ship it out to you". And Ted Haigh, dumbfounded at the guilelessness and generosity of someone who didn't know him from Adam and said yes "just because I asked", could only express his sincere thanks.

And this other response on the bonded issue similarly is frank, open and generous.

Laird Distillers is a class act and good to hear that stocks are selling well. I'll buy it any day, it's great liquor and still well-priced for the quality you get.

Gary

P.S. I am sure Bruce knows the book I mean but you guys interested in other spirits need to get Ted Haigh's book, it's very well-written, beautifully illustrated and designed and is a must for anyone with a deep interest in distilled drinks and cocktails.

[tanstaafl2]

P.S. I am sure Bruce knows the book I mean but you guys interested in other spirits need to get Ted Haigh's book, it's very well-written, beautifully illustrated and designed and is a must for anyone with a deep interest in distilled drinks and cocktails.

Indeed I do know it and own it. It was the first book that really got me focused into the cocktail movement after stumbling about on my own for a couple of years. I have the 2nd edition and highly recommend it for anyone inclined to learn more about vintage style cocktails and how to make them. The first edition from 2004 is out of print but the 2nd edition is still available and not very expensive. It has a bout 100 cocktail recipes. There appears to be a newer updated "mini" version with just 52 recipes but I have not looked at it. I recommend the 2nd Edition from 2009 called Vintage Spirits and Forgotten Cocktails.

Edited December 9, 2014 by tanstaafl2

[Gillman]

Indeed I do know it and own it. It was the first book that really got me focused into the cocktail movement after stumbling about on my own for a couple of years. I have the 2nd edition and highly recommend it for anyone inclined to learn more about vintage style cocktails and how to make them. The first edition from 2004 is out of print but the 2nd edition is still available and not very expensive. It has a bout 100 cocktail recipes. There appears to be a newer updated "mini" version with just 52 recipes but I have not looked at it. I recommend the 2nd Edition from 2009 called Vintage Spirits and Forgotten Cocktails.

I think I have the second edition. It's a very good book, e.g., the Tiki section.

Gary

[jaycamm]

The reply also gives us a clue as to the proportion of the aged components needed to replicate a 4yr product.

[soonami]

That's a very good response from them, but as I don't see the cocktail resurgence dying down anytime soon, I wonder how long it will take them to get production back on track or will they just continue the same production and just sell younger and younger stuff?

[tanstaafl2]

That's a very good response from them, but as I don't see the cocktail resurgence dying down anytime soon, I wonder how long it will take them to get production back on track or will they just continue the same production and just sell younger and younger stuff?

Not clearly stated of course but this reply suggests they intend to increase production capacity, presuming they have the ability to do so, to be able to again sell a BIB product. I expect they too have seen the growth in the cocktail movement and know they need more. But like bourbon, it will take time to restore a supply of 4yo (and older, they still sell a 7.5yo and 12yo that he notes are now "in allocation" for the first time) brandy. perhaps they have already started and are just waiting for the brandy to age.

[tanstaafl2]

Laird's very kindly sent me a little cocktail book and cookbook after my email which was very nice of them. I did find this little description a bit interesting and telling based on what they told me about the current 100 proof brandy that is not BIB.

The book is from 2011 but is a reprint so I don't know exactly when it was last updated. But to go from brandy aged from 6 to 10 years down to brandy that is aged 3-5 years is a pretty significant change over the last few years! So Laird's BIB especially if you can ascribe a bottling date that is a few years older to it, becomes a bit of a desired dusty for those who really like it. The change might be somewhat ameliorated with use in a cocktail but even so, in my opinion the better the spirit you put in, generally the better the cocktail you get out of it.

[BigBoldBully]

Laird's very kindly sent me a little cocktail book and cookbook after my email which was very nice of them. I did find this little description a bit interesting and telling based on what they told me about the current 100 proof brandy that is not BIB.

[tanstaafl2]

So envious. After buying a whole case of the 7.5 year old Laird's apple brandy last week, I emailed the company praising the product and asking a couple of questions: (1) whether there was any way to determine what year my brandy was produced; and (2) whether they might have any extra cookbooks or bartender's guides left.

Today I got their reply: (1) no; (2a) they would sell me a cookbook for $10 plus shipping and handling; and (2b) I cannot have a bartender guide at any price since these are especially for "bartender events." Oh well. (Did not necessarily expect to get any freebies, but I am very surprised they have know way of dating their stock, which seems a basic business necessity. Also surprised they made it sound like they have never given out a bartender guide.)

May have been something they did when the BIB first started to disappear to try to encourage brand loyalty. Oh, and I may have mentioned something about cocktails in my email to them. If they presumed I was in the industry as a result well I can hardly be blamed for that...

:cool:

[Josh]

I brought a bottle of the BiB to the gazebo Friday night. Didn't get a lot of action, even got a sneers from younger guys. Their loss, my bunker's gain.

[Dew Me]

Bottom of bottle has a date code. I just picked one up last week. Can't swear it said BiB but thought it did. Bottom either said 12 or 14, I can't remember for sure. I left one behind. I'm gonna drive by today and take a look. If it is an older BiB I'll have to pick it up. I searched for this because I was afraid this bottle was being discontinued. That is the only store I've seen it in in well over a year.

I had always been told this BiB was 7.5 years like the squat round white label, but just didn't have the age statement. Reading this thread suggests if that was ever true it's been quite awhile ago.

[tanstaafl2]

Bottom of bottle has a date code. I just picked one up last week. Can't swear it said BiB but thought it did. Bottom either said 12 or 14, I can't remember for sure. I left one behind. I'm gonna drive by today and take a look. If it is an older BiB I'll have to pick it up. I searched for this because I was afraid this bottle was being discontinued. That is the only store I've seen it in in well over a year.

I had always been told this BiB was 7.5 years like the squat round white label, but just didn't have the age statement. Reading this thread suggests if that was ever true it's been quite awhile ago.

There may well have been a time when the BIB was more than just a barely 4yo BIB as noted in their own literature. At some point in the past it was typically made from stock ranging from 6yo and up as this indicates (although the fact that a bonded product must come from one season would keep it from being multiple "vintages" right?

I don't know if it was truly the same age as the 7.5yo though. At least it always tasted a bit younger. But I think they got caught by surprise by the cocktail movement much like whiskey and their older stock simply was not able to meet demand resulting in the loss of the BIB designation as they noted in an email response they sent me. They say they are working to get it back to at least a 4yo BIB but that is likely to take awhile and if the non BIB continues to sell well then there isn't likely much incentive to sit on stock for a longer period of time.

[ethangsmith]

Bought a bottle of the 100pf today. Very tasty with a nice apple flavor. I really wish it was easier to find! This is the first bottle I saw in several years.