There they go again

[MauiSon]

Nice to hear that EC18 is making a return next year, eh?

[fishnbowljoe]

Hey, why don't we all relax just a little, and give this guy a break. A writer is given assignments and deadlines. Mistakes sometimes happen in these types of situations.

FWIW, a lot of folks misspell my last name. At least Tripp didn't. :cool:

I wonder what their employers think about these acquisition habits, or if these fellas being interviewed even thought about that.

Also, and again FWIW, my employers know of my love for bourbon, and the possibility of my being mentioned in an article for the WSJ. I've even helped steer a couple of them in the right direction when they had questions about purchasing bourbon.

Cheers! Joe

Edited December 9, 2014 by fishnbowljoe

[DBM]

As nearly all of us are retail consumers, it's easy to forget that we are likely in the minority when it comes to the super premium distilled spirits market. My unscientific, personal observation is that limited/allocated whiskey is trending towards on-premise accounts at a higher percentage, and in some cases exclusively on-premise.

I imagine BT could produce twice as much BTAC, but with a higher percentage being sold to on-premise accounts we won't see a higher volume at retail. Those limited bottles are huge carrots for a distributor trying to displace a competitor's vodka or rum in a bar well - retailers are less interested in that game because they don't get nearly return on a couple bottles of GTS or WLW as a bar will.

There's also the global market expansion of US whiskey, and the wider reach of parent companies like Suntory, Kirin and Diageo that are squeezing the domestic market.

Even with the hoarders, I think there are a lot of bottles available in the market, just not in the hands of consumers.

[ThirstyinOhio]

I think there are a lot of people who are interested in Bourbon, but not yet at the enthusiast level like the members here. Just look at the increase of visitors to the Bourbon Trail, they have had major jumps every year. Now I understand that the majority of these people are not buying $100 bottles of bourbon, but I'm sure they are buying lots of mid shelf brands as they continue their own whiskey education. Now to the problem with having a hard time finding limited releases, its just a numbers game. For example, Four Roses 2014 small batch was only 11,200 bottles according to their website, that's only 224 bottles per state if every state got an equal share. Even in Wyoming, the state with the smallest population, that would be only 1 bottle for every 2500 people. The product is just too cheap to keep it out of the common man's hands, and I thank God every day for that.

[BourbonGuy]

I wonder what their employers think about these acquisition habits, or if these fellas being interviewed even thought about that.

More buisness is happens at bars while drinking then you could imagine.

[Tony Santana]

There are certainly more enthusiasts than frequent these pages. I have several buddies who are into bourbon, and of those I think I'm the only one who's a member here. Then again, I've got the deepest bunker of any of us as well. If I see a limited edition bottle I like, I grab another one. If I see a good deal on something I like, I grab an extra bottle or two. If I just happen to see something out of the ordinary (not even necessarily rare, just something that doesn't show up here often), and the reviews are okay, I grab one. So I'm not sitting 10 deep of anything in my bunker, but I buy it faster than I drink it and it accumulates. I think I have more than 100 unopened bottles right now. Am I a hoarder? I guess so. But I do intend to drink it/share it all at some point.

I think for those who purchase bourbon on anything approaching a semi-regular basis, there are three categories. One is the guy (well, usually a guy) who has his regular JD or JB or MM, that's his go-to, and he rarely buys anything else. Maybe buys a JD single barrel on occasion, or a WR for Christmas, or maybe a Basil Hayden. Always has a bottle or two on hand, but probably no more than 3 or 4. Then there's us - don't mean to imply we're all the same, bunkers obviously vary, some may chase the limited editions, some may not, obviously some know more than others, but at least we can all converse intelligently about the subject. Obviously the great majority fall into the first category, and if you ask them there is obviously no sign of a bourbon shortage.

Then there's the group in the middle. They fancy themselves knowledgable, might know a little something about distilleries, or what a mash bill is, like to try new things, may even have a small collection. They're the ones who get suckered into buying stuff by seemingly in-the-know sales clerks because they don't know any better. They might be dupes, they might be posers, they might be fad jumpers or they might be on the journey from the first group to the last. I spent a good part of my adult life in the first group. I like to think I spent the least amount of time in the middle group. How much the middle group and the enthusiasts are to blame for the alleged shortage, I don't know, but suspect there is some correlation.

[ChainWhip]

Hopefully articles like these will go to the wayside once the next glut hits.

(Yes, I'm fantasizing)

[ggilbertva]

Hey, why don't we all relax just a little, and give this guy a break. A writer is given assignments and deadlines. Mistakes sometimes happen in these types of situations.

FWIW, a lot of folks misspell my last name. At least Tripp didn't. :cool:

Also, and again FWIW, my employers know of my love for bourbon, and the possibility of my being mentioned in an article for the WSJ. I've even helped steer a couple of them in the right direction when they had questions about purchasing bourbon.

Cheers! Joe

Ok, I'll jump in and comment.

First, thank you Joe for being reasoned and understanding that mistakes sometimes are just that, mistakes. I directed Tripp your way for a reason and as you may or may not have discovered, Tripp is new to the Spirits and Tobacco industry. His background is covering sports, having been to numerous Olympics and covering NASCAR. Because this is a new gig for Tripp, he had lots of questions and sometimes I had to answer the same question multiple times, which was fine. I was happy to assist Tripp in gathering information. I spent many afternoons on the phone with Tripp covering various topics and during one phone call, he was sitting with Jimmy Russell asking questions about Wild Turkey and called me to verify a statement I made. Tripp from my perspective and interaction with him, did his due diligence in writing the story. Sure, he got some things wrong and when I received the advance copy I noted those mistakes.

Now, let me clear up some misconceptions I've noted in various forums. This article was not initiated by big distilleries looking to fabricate a shortage promoting a run on bourbon. It's not nearly as sexy or calculated as that. Tripp attended a wedding recently and the groom was stockpiling Blanton's. Why? Because what was easily found 6 months ago was now a chore to acquire. Simple as that. There is no boogy man. When Tripp started with the WSJ just a short 8 weeks ago, the Editor asked him what his first story would be. Tripp relayed the wedding story and was given the green light to see what he could make of that. From there, he contacted me via my blog and I in turn directed him to others, Joe being one. I took Tripp shopping for whiskey and in that excursion we met a very nice shop owner who talked to us for about 45 mins about how hard it is for him now to get the quantities of bourbon that he used to procure in years past. I visited another store that I frequent on occasion because they have a decent selection of bourbons and scotch. Now that store carries mostly craft and the bourbon on the shelves a year ago or less are now replaced with NPB / craft producers. Someone here made comment about how finding various labels in Texas isn't difficult at all so what's the big deal. The deal is there are many markets that don't get yesterday's easy to find bourbons. Weller 12 here in VA? Not to be found. I had to contact a friend of mine in TEXAS and have him send me 6 bottles. Old Weller Antique. Nope. Special Reserve? Nope again. Limited release you can forget about. A buddy of mine put in an order for GTS 18 months ago....he got a call last week his bottles are in.

Now, on to a couple of corrections. Yes, I have a large bunker but it's not all bourbon. I have a very diverse whisk(e)y library; American whiskey, Scotch, Irish, Japanese, Indian and Canadian. No, I don't have a drinking problem and no again, I'm not the cause of anyone here not being able to find a bottle of XXX (fill in the blank). My employer knows I have a large whisk(e)y collection....you can't show up on the cover of WSJ and they not know. The comment about skipping retailers and going right to the distillery was maybe not the best way to phrase. That comment was made in reference to the fact that I go to the distillery and pick directly what I want. Rocky is correct, my bottle collection spans 200ml to handles. A number of bottles in my collection include dusties......things I paid next to nothing for. A 4/5 Old Fitz BIB from 1971 cost me a whopping $11.95 and an OC12 Classic......$10.95. If my wife thought my collection was worth $70K.....I'd be in hot water.

Finally, I'm a enthusiast pure and simple and I got my start right here on the pages of SB.com. I owe much of my knowledge and current friends to this site. I'm also an evangelist when it comes to whisk(e)y. I like talking about it, sharing it, picking it and buying it. A co-worker came to a tasting at my house almost two years ago and he had two bottles in his house; Jack Daniels and Tulamore Dew. He and I spent many a lunch hour talking about whiskey and me providing some input as he asked questions. Today his collection is about 135 bottles and spans bourbon, rye, scotch and Japanese. I encouraged Tripp to branch out beyond Dewars when he drinks so he took a risk and purchased a Monkey Shoulder blended scotch. He called me the next day and said how much he enjoyed it. That's the fun part of being an enthusiast...much like all of you here.

I wish you all a Merry Christmas and if you drink.....drink well. And remember, whiskey is never cheaper than it is today.

Edited December 9, 2014 by ggilbertva

[danz]

Thanks for the great reply, Greg.

-Dan Z.

[HP12]

Thanks for ringing in and setting the record straight Greg, uh, Bourbon Dork!

[ggilbertva]

Thanks for the great reply, Greg.

-Dan Z.

You're very welcome Dan.

[TunnelTiger]

Great thread, thanks to all.

[Str8ShooterEsq]

Greg,

Great response.

[ggilbertva]

Greg,

Great response.

Thank you Mike. Enjoy your holiday's

[flahute]

Thanks for the reply Greg. I enjoy your blog and didn't even know you were a member here.

A co-worker who is not a bourbon guy (but who is designing a distillery) sent that article to me and another co-worker who's an enthusiast so it certainly got out there to the mainstream audience.

[Vadertime]

Ya'll should come work in Asia. Heavy drinking is a prerequisite for climbing the corporate ladder. Outside of Nippon bourbon is a bit tough to track down though.

Of course, that has not prevented me from acquiring a somewhat respectable bunker.

Cbeers

[altadoc]

thanks for the thoughtful reply greg. have a great holiday

[garbanzobean]

Ok, I'll jump in and comment.

First, thank you Joe for being reasoned and understanding that mistakes sometimes are just that, mistakes. I directed Tripp your way for a reason and as you may or may not have discovered, Tripp is new to the Spirits and Tobacco industry. His background is covering sports, having been to numerous Olympics and covering NASCAR. Because this is a new gig for Tripp, he had lots of questions and sometimes I had to answer the same question multiple times, which was fine. I was happy to assist Tripp in gathering information. I spent many afternoons on the phone with Tripp covering various topics and during one phone call, he was sitting with Jimmy Russell asking questions about Wild Turkey and called me to verify a statement I made. Tripp from my perspective and interaction with him, did his due diligence in writing the story. Sure, he got some things wrong and when I received the advance copy I noted those mistakes.

Now, let me clear up some misconceptions I've noted in various forums. This article was not initiated by big distilleries looking to fabricate a shortage promoting a run on bourbon. It's not nearly as sexy or calculated as that. Tripp attended a wedding recently and the groom was stockpiling Blanton's. Why? Because what was easily found 6 months ago was now a chore to acquire. Simple as that. There is no boogy man. When Tripp started with the WSJ just a short 8 weeks ago, the Editor asked him what his first story would be. Tripp relayed the wedding story and was given the green light to see what he could make of that. From there, he contacted me via my blog and I in turn directed him to others, Joe being one. I took Tripp shopping for whiskey and in that excursion we met a very nice shop owner who talked to us for about 45 mins about how hard it is for him now to get the quantities of bourbon that he used to procure in years past. I visited another store that I frequent on occasion because they have a decent selection of bourbons and scotch. Now that store carries mostly craft and the bourbon on the shelves a year ago or less are now replaced with NPB / craft producers. Someone here made comment about how finding various labels in Texas isn't difficult at all so what's the big deal. The deal is there are many markets that don't get yesterday's easy to find bourbons. Weller 12 here in VA? Not to be found. I had to contact a friend of mine in TEXAS and have him send me 6 bottles. Old Weller Antique. Nope. Special Reserve? Nope again. Limited release you can forget about. A buddy of mine put in an order for GTS 18 months ago....he got a call last week his bottles are in.

Now, on to a couple of corrections. Yes, I have a large bunker but it's not all bourbon. I have a very diverse whisk(e)y library; American whiskey, Scotch, Irish, Japanese, Indian and Canadian. No, I don't have a drinking problem and no again, I'm not the cause of anyone here not being able to find a bottle of XXX (fill in the blank). My employer knows I have a large whisk(e)y collection....you can't show up on the cover of WSJ and they not know. The comment about skipping retailers and going right to the distillery was maybe not the best way to phrase. That comment was made in reference to the fact that I go to the distillery and pick directly what I want. Rocky is correct, my bottle collection spans 200ml to handles. A number of bottles in my collection include dusties......things I paid next to nothing for. A 4/5 Old Fitz BIB from 1971 cost me a whopping $11.95 and an OC12 Classic......$10.95. If my wife thought my collection was worth $70K.....I'd be in hot water.

Finally, I'm a enthusiast pure and simple and I got my start right here on the pages of SB.com. I owe much of my knowledge and current friends to this site. I'm also an evangelist when it comes to whisk(e)y. I like talking about it, sharing it, picking it and buying it. A co-worker came to a tasting at my house almost two years ago and he had two bottles in his house; Jack Daniels and Tulamore Dew. He and I spent many a lunch hour talking about whiskey and me providing some input as he asked questions. Today his collection is about 135 bottles and spans bourbon, rye, scotch and Japanese. I encouraged Tripp to branch out beyond Dewars when he drinks so he took a risk and purchased a Monkey Shoulder blended scotch. He called me the next day and said how much he enjoyed it. That's the fun part of being an enthusiast...much like all of you here.

I wish you all a Merry Christmas and if you drink.....drink well. And remember, whiskey is never cheaper than it is today.

Haha, it is a small world. Your blog was one of the first bourbon focused ones I found. Well before I started posting on SB. In fact, I was distinctly imagining your bunker at one point when complaining about hoarders on here. And now I find out you're a longtime poster on SB, and have been collecting for quite some time. Well isn't my face red with shame!

My apologies for the hasty judgment. Let me know if you're interested in meeting up at some point. I live on the MD side of the DC metro area. I'd like to buy you a drink and pick your brain about the barrel picks you've done.

Cheers,

Eric

[Dwt]

Here's a word of encouragement: In retirement you may find that with the mortgage paid off and the kids through college, you have more disposable income that can be reallocated to more important things. Such as bourbon.

Trouble is that Boomers are retiring in droves and having developed the taste in their old age for sprits and especially good bourbon, are gobbling it up as quickly as it hits the shelves. They went through their youthful beer only stage , started drinking gin and vodka Martinis, got introduced to single malts, then graduated to the real thing. In my case once I started sipping good bourbon, scotch tastes insipid and I can't drink it.

So us boomers are the cause of this craze, so we just have to out live everyone else then we'll scoop up all the good stuff currently aging in warehouses with less competition.

[ggilbertva]

Haha, it is a small world. Your blog was one of the first bourbon focused ones I found. Well before I started posting on SB. In fact, I was distinctly imagining your bunker at one point when complaining about hoarders on here. And now I find out you're a longtime poster on SB, and have been collecting for quite some time. Well isn't my face red with shame!

My apologies for the hasty judgment. Let me know if you're interested in meeting up at some point. I live on the MD side of the DC metro area. I'd like to buy you a drink and pick your brain about the barrel picks you've done.

Cheers,

Eric

Eric,

No harm, no foul. Feel free to shoot me an email at brbnizgud@yahoo.com.

Cheers/Greg

[TunnelTiger]

So us boomers are the cause of this craze, so we just have to out live everyone else then we'll scoop up all the good stuff currently aging in warehouses with less competition.

Yea us!!..........

[The Black Tot]

most of the rabid flippers I see on fb are in their 30's and younger. The ones that post the pictures of BTAC complete collections x 6 and more. I don't think it's the boomers.

[fishnbowljoe]

I'd also like to chime in and say thanks for your post Greg. Talking with Tripp, and having the opportunity to contribute to his article was fun and interesting.

I'd also like to apologize for my rather terse reply concerning some of the posts that were made. Every so often, I get a little discouraged when I see how quickly some people will jump in and make scornful or critical posts about something. I realize that we're all different, but there are times that some folks take things way too seriously. Sometimes you just need to take a step back and try to see things for what they are, and not what you and/or others perceive them to be. Relax, take it easy, and try not to be too critical. Like myself and others have stated before, this is supposed to be fun.

I guess I learned my lesson fairly early. A person joined here a few years ago. He started a thread and asked,"If you were going to create your own Small Batch Bourbon for sale to the public, what would you do to make it distinctive?" A few folks gave the new member a bit of a hard time. I jumped on the bandwagon too, and made a rather sarcastic post of my own. As it turns out, the new guy was actually sincere. He also happened to be a former master distiller. :bigeyes: Surprise! Surprise! That's one reason why I now usually wait and see how things play out before I think about making some posts. It's also why I try not to be too judgmental.

Joe

[flahute]

Hear, hear. Well spoken Joe, and words to take to heart. Thanks for the nudge.

[B.B. Babington]

...there have to be a LOT of bourbon enthusiasts that are not on this forum. But that brings up another question to my mind, how are they following what is being released and when...

Several I know who are not registered here get info from places like Hansell and Cowdery websits, as well as word of mouth from travels