Help again: Pappy 20, Pappy 23, WLW, Thomas Handy pours

[TXNewDude]

Sorry I have to bug you experienced gents again.

I've located 2 bars that carry some LE that I don't I will ever get a chance to acquire on my own.

bar 1: Pappy 20 = $55 a pour, Pappy 23 = $99

bar 2: WLW = $45 a pour, Thomas Handy = $25

Question is: which, all, or none?

[Travis D]

Where in Texas are you located? $25 for the Handy isn't outrageous but I'd expect 14-17. It may just be luck but I'm normally able to have my pick of the BTAC for a maximum of about $20 a pour around the Houston area (especially around release time), going for the Saz18 or ER17 more often than not. Last time I had Pappy 20 at a bar, it was about $22 and that topped it out for me. I think 99 for the 23 is crazy but I haven't followed them or tried to pursue a pour at a bar in some time.

[dcbt]

Last time I saw some of those in a bar, PVW20 was $20 and PVW23 was $50. That was probably 2012 though, maybe 2013.

[squire]

To answer the question I would go with the Handy even if they were all the same price.

[kjbeggs]

The PVW 20 is almost surely a better pour than the 23, and definitely a better "bargain" at just over half the price.

Honestly, I find all those prices to be outrageous, but that's the world we are in now.

[JDSmith619]

Bar 2 and have 3 THH.

[LakeJ]

Too pricey for my taste but if I had to choose go with bar 2. The Handy is quite good.

[TXNewDude]

Where in Texas are you located? $25 for the Handy isn't outrageous but I'd expect 14-17. It may just be luck but I'm normally able to have my pick of the BTAC for a maximum of about $20 a pour around the Houston area (especially around release time), going for the Saz18 or ER17 more often than not. Last time I had Pappy 20 at a bar, it was about $22 and that topped it out for me. I think 99 for the 23 is crazy but I haven't followed them or tried to pursue a pour at a bar in some time.

I didn't dig too deep to find more places that carried these, but I'm in the Dallas area. I think I'll give the Handy a go based on the advice here; and thankfully it'll save me some $$. I suppose I just want to see if I'm blown away enough to care about hunting these down. All the readily available choices on the shelves more than make me happy, but it's just the idea of not knowing what all is out there haha.

[Quantum]

WLW is one of my all time favorites, but I would need a pretty special occasion to justify that price. If you have the cash, I think the Handy is worth trying once at $25.

[The Black Tot]

Another vote for neither.

Find 'em for less than $20 a pour or pass.

It will happen. Patience, grasshopper

[dcbt]

I'm also in dallas, pm me if you want the name of the place that more reasonably priced pours, at least as of a couple years ago.

[WhiskyRI]

Walk away, walk away slowly. Unless you feel a burning need to spend money to check something off the bucket list that money could be so much better spent on bottles of good bourbon.

[B.B. Babington]

perhaps spend more time sampling other stuff and learning which glass ya like and how ya like to sip before spending high $$. spending lots of time comparing different mid-shelfers to educate palate is better investment. get a bunch o' bottles and glasses and compare back-to-back side-by-side and upside-down.

[Chris m]

None of them. Unless you're fabulously wealthy. Even then I would suggest avoiding them, just on principle.

That being said, WLW is the best of the bunch. It is phenomenal.

I wouldn't pay $25 for Handy.

edit: I really wouldn't pay 55 or 100 for the pappies.

[BigBoldBully]

I'll take the devil's advocate position, concentrating on Pappy 20 (which would likely be more enjoyable by the 23, is cheaper, and is just about as tough to acquire). Although I pretty much never drink at restaurants or bars due to the market, these crazy sounding prices might not be so horrible so long as you tip in accordance with how much trouble it takes to pour a simple unmixed libation, rather than a % of its price. (Probably another topic, but isn't it crazy to pay 15 or 20 percent of a super-super-premium whiskey's asking price for a bartender to pour out of one bottle vs. another?) They typically charge like $5 or $6 a glass for an $8/bottle wine, which works out to $25-30 per bottle. That is between 3 and 4 times retail. (I think it tends to be something similar for spirits.) Pappy 20 is I believe around $100 a bottle retail, so a 1.5 ounce pour would be like $20 at 3.5x markup. And that is the normal markup, for something you could just walk into a liquor store and buy off the shelf any day of the year. Pappy is absolutely not in that category. So you are basically paying a $35 convenience fee for the opportunity to have something you would probably need to spend a ridiculous amount of time/trouble to track down otherwise. Not necessarily an irrational decision for you to pay that fee, unless you can easily find another bar or restaurant that offers it for significantly less.

You have probably spent $35 or more on many things that were far less memorable. And for better or for worse, you know that no matter how many other bourbons you buy, you will always wonder what they are like in relation to Pappy. In that sense, satisfying your curiosity would also serve a practical or educational purpose. The experience can be your yardstick, and thenceforth you will not feel a compulsion to give something you totally love a 9/10, or an asterisk, because "Pappy might be better." You will be able to say to yourself, "I've had Pappy, and this really is just as good in my opinion. I am satisfied."

Edited February 26, 2015 by BigBoldBully

[kjbeggs]

Maybe do a little haggling....

I know if i was dropping $100, i'd expect a (generous) pour of both the Pappy 20 and 23

[flahute]

If you've never had PVW before, than BigBold Bully makes an excellent point. Scratch the itch so you know.Then you don't have to walk around wondering and pondering going to great lengths trying to acquire one.

[TXNewDude]

I definitely see where everyone is coming from. For sure I'm intrigue by the unknown.

Ended up going to a different bar altogether with a lady friend. I actually chose it because yelp reviewers said Pappy was available, but that ended up not being the case.

Still, there was GTS, ORVW 10 and 12 yr, Lost Prophet, a 4RLE. Thats just from what I could read from the labels, since there was no whiskey menu or list.

I ended up with GTS($20ish) first, and then the 4RLE(prob $10-12). A pretty reasonable bar me thinks.

It was nice indeed to scratch those off the list. GTS was different than anything else I've tried. I know nothing of tasting notes, but it was smooth and a long orange finish is all I can say. Memorable.

4RLE came after the decently generous GTS pour, so all I can remember is it tasted good but nothing over the top.

I still have the urge to scratch Pappy off the list, but I suppose I know to set my expectations a little lower now.

I just get quite involved with any new hobby, and this is a fun one.

[SacEddie]

This is just so funny to see how lucky all of you are. In Sacramento a pour (1.5oz) of pappy 23 is costing anywhere from $100-$130. And people are paying this. The prices lower about $15 increments for the younger ones. It's crazy. The only pappy to be released out here ended up at bars. No retailers for general purchase. And there was zero BTAC.

[Chris m]

Take solace in the fact that hype is the only thing pushing those prices up. Pappy hasn't gotten any better in the last ten years, and some might argue the quality has declined. As much as I love bourbon, there's only so good it can get and even at it's best is not worth $100/oz (I would hope my feelings would be the same even if I were loaded). I'm just as happy sipping on EC12 as I am pappy 15, take price/hassle into account and I am significantly happier with EC.

Hype can be fun, but don't let it get in the way of enjoying the many other delicious bottles of bourbon out there which live in relative anonymity not through any fault of their own, but because they were not mentioned on TV by someone famous.

http://www.lawhiskeysociety.com/pages/Black-Bowmore-Blind-Tasting

[Tony Santana]

While I tend to agree with the "your money is better spent elsewhere" posters, I also understand the "I have the urge to scratch Pappy off the list" mentality. The two are at odds. Pappy has such an aura of prestige, mystique, whatever, in the whiskey world that it practically feels mandatory that one who is into this hobby has to try it at some point. So my advice would be that the OP should go for it if he has enough experience - has been drinking bourbon for awhile, has tried a number of different styles and brands, and is ready to at least appreciate a step up. Assuming you can afford it, spring for the $55 Pappy. I assume you'll walk away thinking "wow, that was really good, but it wasn't worth $55", but at least you can say you tried it and you'll have a point of reference. If you're impressed enough, then have the patience that you'll maybe find a bottle of the VW line or the BTAC on your own some day, or at least a bar where you can find this stuff priced more reasonably. If not, there's plenty of other options.

[393foureyedfox]

i look at it the other way. one of two things will happen (or would to me, at least)

1: it will seem like any other top shelf bourbon, and youll be irritated that you spent as much on one mouthful of bourbon than you would have spent to take home an entire bottle of most any other top shelfer and had been able to enjoy for weeks/months.

2: it will be incredible awesome and eye-opening. the downside, of course, being that you have to get reamed repeatedly to enjoy it again, or most likely.....that not being able to obtain it again will make you not be able to enjoy as much all the other bourbons which you can get. Kind of like being happy with your Mustang GT, only to be offered the opportunity to drive a Dodge Hellcat Challenger for a day, then being forced back into your old GT.....now it seems slow and clunky and you cant enjoy it as much anymore because you know what else is out there.

so, to me, it is lose-lose. obviously, opinions vary, just read the above entries!

[TXNewDude]

I'm going to have to try that Pappy 20 for $55 just to get it out of the way. Plus it seems that many prefer it over the 23 anyway. Even though I really don't think it could be THAT much better than all the awesome stuff on the shelves.

I'm not wealthy, but I save enough for memories. It can taste like a $20 bottle and I won't feel like I wasted my money having scratched the itch!

[dSculptor]

Funny that you put this thread out here, as today I just got me an email, from a Ls that usually has a "Pappy palooza",but instead of selling them (they claim they didn't get enough) they are giving out tastes:

1 ounce of Old Rip Van Winkle 10 Year

1 ounce of Van Winkle Special Reserve 12 Year

1 ounce of Pappy Van Winkle's Family Reserve 15 Year

1 ounce of Pappy Van Winkle's Family Reserve 20 Year

1/2 ounce of Pappy Van Winkle's Family Reserve 23 Year

We feel that this year, with so few bottles available, this one-of-a-kind tasting event is the best/fairest way to spread the Van Winkle love around and give 45 folks a chance to taste an unparalleled lineup of the world's most elusive bourbons!

The cost of the Pappy Van Winkle Experience Event is $100 per seat.

There will be NO refunds/exchanges/cancellations accepted within 72 hours of the event, with no exceptions.

Well if you do the math that equates to them getting 2 bottles of ea. except for the 23. I guess all in all not a bad deal for those like the OP.

I guess you could say that's thinking outside the box.... all those bottles = $4500, and I suppose they will sell out, plus they even end up with a few oz. left in each!

[amg]

Well, that beats the charity tasting that happened at a bar here in December. $500 for 3/4 oz. of each of the Van Winkle lineup and each of the BTAC (so 11 pours total - avg. $60/oz). I passed on that, of course, but at least it was for charity.