Help again: Pappy 20, Pappy 23, WLW, Thomas Handy pours

[SacEddie]

Take solace in the fact that hype is the only thing pushing those prices up. Pappy hasn't gotten any better in the last ten years, and some might argue the quality has declined. As much as I love bourbon, there's only so good it can get and even at it's best is not worth $100/oz (I would hope my feelings would be the same even if I were loaded). I'm just as happy sipping on EC12 as I am pappy 15, take price/hassle into account and I am significantly happier with EC.

Hype can be fun, but don't let it get in the way of enjoying the many other delicious bottles of bourbon out there which live in relative anonymity not through any fault of their own, but because they were not mentioned on TV by someone famous.

http://www.lawhiskeysociety.com/pages/Black-Bowmore-Blind-Tasting

[393foureyedfox]

I'm going to have to try that Pappy 20 for $55 just to get it out of the way. Plus it seems that many prefer it over the 23 anyway. Even though I really don't think it could be THAT much better than all the awesome stuff on the shelves.

I'm not wealthy, but I save enough for memories. It can taste like a $20 bottle and I won't feel like I wasted my money having scratched the itch!

[PaulO]

Whenever I think of paying $$$ for a shot, I think I'd like to watch the bartender open the bottle in front of me. Even if it's all on the up and up, I would worry that I was getting a pour from a bottle that was open for a long time. I sure wouldn't want to fork it over for a shot from a bottle that sat there for months with one of those speed pourers in the top.

[TunnelTiger]

You also have to trust that the bottle hasn't been decanted with something else. The older I've got the less trusting I've become.

[smknjoe]

I'm going to have to try that Pappy 20 for $55 just to get it out of the way. Plus it seems that many prefer it over the 23 anyway. Even though I really don't think it could be THAT much better than all the awesome stuff on the shelves.

I'm not wealthy, but I save enough for memories. It can taste like a $20 bottle and I won't feel like I wasted my money having scratched the itch!

If you can afford it go for it and get it out of the way. If you wait to go to one of the local SB gatherings you can probably try it for free...

...I understand the itch though. It won't go away until it's scratched.

[tanstaafl2]

if youre gonna do this, I would LOVE for you to go with a friend and have him order it for you, along with two other good quality, yet attainable, bourbons, and give them to you blind. How many people get to do blind 'pappy' tests? that might make the experience worth the price of admission.

Been there, done that several times. A blind tasting with Pappy 20 and a couple of other reasonable comparisons bottles (say Weller 12 and current VSOF 12yo or even a solid rye recipe bourbon like EC12) can be a truly humbling experience.

Pappy is typically at its best with the label visible... :skep:

[The Black Tot]

I highly doubt that anybody, even bars, keeps Pappy or BTAC with a speed pourer on top.

TXNewDude, this isn't about you crossing it off the list. It's about you being impatient and paying too much to cross it off your list.

It's like you taking up hunting and in your first year you take a $20K trip to shoot a lion with a machine gun in a gated preserve. Would that really make you a more knowledgeable or talented hunter?

You've managed your entire life up until now without tasting Pappy, surely you could work on a relationship with a store until October and just buy one? $55 will get you 1/3 of a bottle of the stuff in October. It is not worth it for one pour.

Of course you should do what you want and nobody is saying don't make good memories. But good bar memories are less about what's in the glass than who is at the table with you, anyway.

If you think paying $55+ tip for $10 of whiskey is a good idea, I guess there's nothing more we can tell you.

[TXNewDude]

I highly doubt that anybody, even bars, keeps Pappy or BTAC with a speed pourer on top.

TXNewDude, this isn't about you crossing it off the list. It's about you being impatient and paying too much to cross it off your list.

It's like you taking up hunting and in your first year you take a $20K trip to shoot a lion with a machine gun in a gated preserve. Would that really make you a more knowledgeable or talented hunter?

You've managed your entire life up until now without tasting Pappy, surely you could work on a relationship with a store until October and just buy one? $55 will get you 1/3 of a bottle of the stuff in October. It is not worth it for one pour.

Of course you should do what you want and nobody is saying don't make good memories. But good bar memories are less about what's in the glass than who is at the table with you, anyway.

If you think paying $55+ tip for $10 of whiskey is a good idea, I guess there's nothing more we can tell you.

dagnabit lol. I'm doing it to share my experience with the SB community...yes...I need a cause. The blind testing is a great idea...probably with just one other one (weller12 or EC12 then).

On a side note...I was doing some googling and saw an online store that had WT Tradition 14($120), Jefferson's Presidential 17($95), and EC 18($50). I added them all to my cart and almost checked out before stopping myself. Are these even rare/highly regarded?

Are you all shaking your heads at me? lol

[jackthedog]

A friend of mine had a bottle of the 23yo. It's good but it was not life changing. I'm glad I got to try it but it kind of put things in perspective for me because I enjoyed the HH I had along side it just as much.

That said, I completely understand the urge to try it. I'd probably have given in and tried a pour at some point.

[Vosgar]

Funny that you put this thread out here, as today I just got me an email, from a Ls that usually has a "Pappy palooza",but instead of selling them (they claim they didn't get enough) they are giving out tastes:

1 ounce of Old Rip Van Winkle 10 Year

1 ounce of Van Winkle Special Reserve 12 Year

1 ounce of Pappy Van Winkle's Family Reserve 15 Year

1 ounce of Pappy Van Winkle's Family Reserve 20 Year

1/2 ounce of Pappy Van Winkle's Family Reserve 23 Year

We feel that this year, with so few bottles available, this one-of-a-kind tasting event is the best/fairest way to spread the Van Winkle love around and give 45 folks a chance to taste an unparalleled lineup of the world's most elusive bourbons!

The cost of the Pappy Van Winkle Experience Event is $100 per seat.

There will be NO refunds/exchanges/cancellations accepted within 72 hours of the event, with no exceptions.

Well if you do the math that equates to them getting 2 bottles of ea. except for the 23. I guess all in all not a bad deal for those like the OP.

I guess you could say that's thinking outside the box.... all those bottles = $4500, and I suppose they will sell out, plus they even end up with a few oz. left in each!

Edited February 27, 2015 by Vosgar

[393foureyedfox]

dagnabit lol. I'm doing it to share my experience with the SB community...yes...I need a cause. The blind testing is a great idea...probably with just one other one (weller12 or EC12 then).

if youre gonna do a blind sbs with pappy versus x, you ought to do it with stuff that is both the same relative age, and against stuff that is financially as well as physically attainable.....such as elijah craig 18 or 23, or one of the older orphan barrel offerings. I would love to see the results of that

[smknjoe]

dagnabit lol. I'm doing it to share my experience with the SB community...yes...I need a cause. The blind testing is a great idea...probably with just one other one (weller12 or EC12 then).

On a side note...I was doing some googling and saw an online store that had WT Tradition 14($120), Jefferson's Presidential 17($95), and EC 18($50). I added them all to my cart and almost checked out before stopping myself. Are these even rare/highly regarded?

Are you all shaking your heads at me? lol

Those are pretty good prices and I've had the WT and JPS17. They are both good. The 17yr. is very good in my opinion. It's very odd that you found these in stock since they have all been discontinued for at least a couple of years. Are you sure they just haven't updated their site.

[BigBoldBully]

The EC18 at $50 is particularly suspicious. I highly doubt that order would go as hoped.

[TXNewDude]

The EC18 at $50 is particularly suspicious. I highly doubt that order would go as hoped.

Hmmm, indeed. I'm gonna do a google on that domain and then try the order.

[smknjoe]

Hmmm, indeed. I'm gonna do a google on that domain and then try the order.

What's that going to tell you other than who owns the domain?

[TXNewDude]

What's that going to tell you other than who owns the domain?

Oh I dunno. I just thought if it was some scam there might be evidence with a search.

Well it's a legit site owned by known store in Kentucky. Haha the order went through without a method of payment and a message said I would be contacted about availability due to limited production of some items...strange experience.

[BigBoldBully]

At least you didn't have to give credit card info first, as so often happens.

[fishnbowljoe]

if youre gonna do a blind sbs with pappy versus x, you ought to do it with stuff that is both the same relative age, and against stuff that is financially as well as physically attainable.....such as elijah craig 18 or 23, or one of the older orphan barrel offerings. I would love to see the results of that

I for one, would like to hear your comparisons and tasting notes. Looking forward to it.

[393foureyedfox]

I for one, would like to hear your comparisons and tasting notes. Looking forward to it.

not gonna happen..... I wont pay over $50 a bottle, let alone a pour. leave it to you to single me out while I try to help him organize a fair unbiased comparison too

[TXNewDude]

I figure I''ll be staggering if I have more than 2 hours in a sitting, so I was going to pick just one readily available option for the blind test.

I have a feeling many of you've read this article? http://www.thedailymeal.com/taste-test-cult-pappy-van-winkles-20-year-reserve-bourbon

Apparently many chose the $30 Jefferson's over the Pappy. I've never had it so maybe it'd be a good choice. Or, how about one in the Weller lineup I keep hearing folks mention vs Pappy? I see the Special Reserve or Antique on the shelves all the time but not the 12 so the bar may happen to not have it either.

I'll just have the gf keep track and hand them to me.

[TXNewDude]

Or Pappy vs Lost Prophet..i think they have that one

[BigBoldBully]

I have a feeling many of you've read this article? http://www.thedailymeal.com/taste-test-cult-pappy-van-winkles-20-year-reserve-bourbon

Apparently many chose the $30 Jefferson's over the Pappy. I've never had it so maybe it'd be a good choice. Or, how about one in the Weller lineup I keep hearing folks mention vs Pappy? I see the Special Reserve or Antique on the shelves all the time but not the 12 so the bar may happen to not have it either.

I'll just have the gf keep track and hand them to me.

It is often surprising what happens in a blind tasting, particularly of a lot of spirits Side By Side ("sbs"). Even if there were indications the people in the article are People Of Superior Experience Urging Reform ("POSEURs"), I would pay little attention. You see, these sorts of mass tastings do funny things to a palate.

I could go on and on about the effects a sip of one thing can have on another (and as a funny coincidence I actually picked a Jeffersons small batch in 2012 as the winner of a huge blind elimination tournament I conducted, yet I am still struggling to polish off that same bottle of the stuff) without careful planning, but basically in my opinion it is a good thing you are limiting yourself to two bourbons for the taste off. I'd also urge you to plan some sort of palate cleansing between sips of the two. There was a product called SanTasti that used a gum suspended in carbonated water, which did the trick quite nicely, but it looks like they have relaunched it as a much more useless beverage. Maybe someone else here can suggest a substitute, or failing that club soda (with or without lemon) and bland crackers might suffice.

[BigBoldBully]

Or Pappy vs Lost Prophet..i think they have that one

Would be an interesting comparison, as both are 20+ years in the barrel. Ideally, both would be wheaters though. One of the older Wellers, a Vintage, or perhaps even a Very Very Old Fitzgerald should do, if available. Unfortunately, there seems to be a dearth of old wheated bourbons to use for a relatively apples to apples comparison.

[fishnbowljoe]

not gonna happen..... I wont pay over $50 a bottle, let alone a pour. leave it to you to single me out while I try to help him organize a fair unbiased comparison too

Not singling you out at all Doug. You've made your preferences here well known, in many different threads. You've also made you $50 limit well known, in many different threads. I myself, and probably others too, would like to know how you can give advice on something if you've never tried it. Just sayin'. Sorry if you took it the wrong way.

I myself, find any Pappy, and most BTAC (not the ryes) to be a little better than the HH EC offerings. EC 12 is okay, but the citrus flavor is a bit too much for me personally. The EC 18, which isn't currently being produced, has a bit less of the citrus flavor, and has a richness and viscosity that is slightly appealing, but is a bit too dry and woody to me. Just too much oak and smoke for my taste.

As far as the BTAC goes, I pretty much gave up on it a while back, sans a bottle or two here and there, so I can't rightfully comment.

Pappy. Well, the Van Winkle stuff has changed a bit over the last number of years. I've tried them all. I have multiple bottles of all but the Pappy 23. I've pretty much liked them all but the Pappy 23. Like the EC 18, too much wood and char flavor in the Pappy 23 for me. I prefer wheated bourbons, and the Pappy stuff is wheated. What can I say? Still, I'm not sure whether I'll ever buy any more Pappy or not. Yes, price and availability are contributing factors. The big deal about Pappy used to be the fact that it was Stitzel Weller distillate. Now, with the possible exception of the Pappy 23, (maybe the Pappy 20 too) it all comes from BT. There's no comparison at all. Both good. Both different. Both worth the cost???? You have to try them if you can, and make your own decision there.

We're our own worst enemies when it comes to the Van Winkle offerings. We have helped to propagate the Pappy "myth" so to speak. We have helped make Pappy into an icon, despite the fact that it isn't what it used to be. The flippers and folks on other private sites that are only interested in making a buck are probably loving people and sites like us because we're helping them make money. Julian and Preston probably aren't displeased either. If you look at it in a broad sense, we're doing so at our own expense. Can't find any Pappy. Why? Other people have bought it all. Why's that? We've said it's the best bourbon you can buy. Go figure. :soapbox:

If you have the means, try any and everything you can. If you don't, you'll never know for sure. It all really comes down to the fact that what some of us know, or think we know doesn't amount to a hill of beans. It's all a matter of personal preference. Or opinions. And you know what they say about opinions.

Cheers! Joe

Edited February 27, 2015 by fishnbowljoe

[flahute]

You are so right Joe. I'm with you. I love wheated bourbons, which means I love Van Winkle products (well, some of them) and find myself often coming up short trying to find good wheated product. I recently saw a thread on a facebook group where I guy was asking for a WLW and a SAZ 18 in exchange for a PVW20. I have both the WLW and the SAZ 18. I have $260 into both of those bottles. $260 for PVW20 is an absolute steal by secondary market standards. I wouldn't do it though. I couldn't see trading those two bottles for that one. Not worth it. It's ridiculous. I've tried the PVW20 on a few occasions, and while it's good, it's not that good (in my opinion). A little to much oak in it for me. I'll still hunt the PVW15, but I'm quite content to let others knock themselves out trying to acquire the 20 and 23. A year ago I had a hard time believing those who said there were plenty of other bourbons to get excited about and that they could forget about the Van Winkles because of it. Now? I know it's true for myself as well. I'll buy them if they are there, but I won't go to great efforts to get them. Life is too short. I'd rather be drinking good bourbon than running around getting stressed out, and there's lots of good bourbon I can go out and buy right now.