Bulleit distilling, sourcing, and visitors center questions...

[GrPeMi]

OK...I had a conversation after dinner with a family member who mentioned that someone at the liquor store told him that JB Black was basically the same thing as Bulleit, but way cheaper. Now this guy enjoys his bourbon, but is very definitely not a "bourbon nerd", so I didn't launch into a whole thing about that, other than to simply say "I don't think that's right...I think they used to their bourbon from Four Roses, but not anymore. I don't think they get it from Beam, though."

That more or less settled the issue, with regards to that point, but I realized that I didn't have a good grasp on what, exactly was going on with the Bulleit brand, and that perhaps I'm too lazy to weave it all together from a bunch of different sources. Please read carefully, what I'm presenting below are not facts, just my vague understanding.

So I'm hoping the good SB'ers can fill in the blanks and correct anything I might have wrong below:

-- Historically, Bulleit had been buying most (all?) of their bourbon from Four Roses. This likely derives from 4R being owned by Seagrams prior to the massive transformation that created what is now Diageo (Bulleit's parent company)

-- Over time, the amount of bourbon purchased from 4R has declined (in absolute numbers, or just relative to total Bulleit sales volume?)

-- 4R has basically said they're not distilling anything for Bulleit anymore (but are they still aging stock for them?)

-- It is not clear where Bulleit is currently sourcing their bourbon from, if not 4R, but somewhere in Kentucky, since Bulleit/Diageo knows to properly label the source, as they do for the rye. But there is no mention of Lawrenceburg, IN on the bourbon label.

-- Bulleit is building a visitor's center at ________ distillery. This is a location previously used for distilling, and is currently used as an aging facility. There will be a small, "experimental" still there.

-- Bulleit is a building a large commercial still in _____________ (Louisville?). This will essentially be a new distillery, not a refurbishment of an old property? It will start distilling / filling barrels in _______

-- The new distillery will not likely be able to support current sales volume levels, so they will likely continue to buy some bourbon from an additional source (and presumably blend it with their own product?).

OK SB'ers...it's your turn...fill in the blanks for me and send me on my way to bourbon nerd-dom.

[squire]

Bulleit started as an NDP using sourced whisky promoted with the usual story about great grandad's secret recipe. The brand gained enough success to attract Diageo's attention and they bought it. Until fairly recently the whisky has been made at Four Roses (don't know if they always did) then aged in the old Stitzel-Weller warehouses.

Diageo is building a new distillery dedicated to Bulliet but it appears to be undercapaticy considering the volume of sales. Diageo already owns large stores of aging stock but hasn't publicly stated what proportion of that stock will make its way into the brand.

[silverfish]

You might be able to find some answers on Chuck's blog:

chuckcowdery.blogspot.com/

Search Bulleit and see what comes up.

Alternately, go to google home page and enter

bulleit sourced site:straightbourbon.com

(or whatever you want instead of sourced) and check those results.

I find that searching google that way is sometimes quicker/easier than searching SB directly.

[Josh]

Let me try to answer your questions the way you posed them.

-- Historically, Bulleit had been buying most (all?) of their bourbon from Four Roses. This likely derives from 4R being owned by Seagrams prior to the massive transformation that created what is now Diageo (Bulleit's parent company)

Seagram's was sold off for parts so the Bronfmans could enter the entertainment business. Diageo got some of their brands when that happened. It's more complicated than that of course but that's my thumbnail take on what happened. I don't think Bulleit was ever a Seagram's brand though.

-- Over time, the amount of bourbon purchased from 4R has declined (in absolute numbers, or just relative to total Bulleit sales volume?)

I don't know.

-- 4R has basically said they're not distilling anything for Bulleit anymore (but are they still aging stock for them?)

I don't think they're doing that, if they ever were. Everything is being aged at Diageo-owned warehouses.

-- It is not clear where Bulleit is currently sourcing their bourbon from, if not 4R, but somewhere in Kentucky, since Bulleit/Diageo knows to properly label the source, as they do for the rye. But there is no mention of Lawrenceburg, IN on the bourbon label.

I did see a barrel with DSP KY #230 (Beam) when I was at Stizel-Weller for the tour last year, so I think it's certain Diageo is buying from Beam (There's been confirmation of this from Chuck). They have the most capacity so it makes sense. I would guess that they're also buying from Brown-Forman and maybe Heaven Hill. That said, Bulleit isn't Diageo's only bourbon brand so stuff aged at S-W and elsewhere could very well be going into Harper or other overseas brands.

-- Bulleit is building a visitor's center at ________ distillery. This is a location previously used for distilling, and is currently used as an aging facility. There will be a small, "experimental" still there.

Stizel-Weller is what you're thinking of. The visitor's center there is already fully operational.

-- Bulleit is a building a large commercial still in _____________ (Louisville?). This will essentially be a new distillery, not a refurbishment of an old property? It will start distilling / filling barrels in _______

1) near Shelbyville, Kentucky. 2) Time for another glut. Kidding, but it's going to be several years before it's completed.

-- The new distillery will not likely be able to support current sales volume levels, so they will likely continue to buy some bourbon from an additional source (and presumably blend it with their own product?).

That is correct, I believe.

As Silverfish pointed out, Chuck has written about this on several occasions. His blog is a great resource.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Josh

[flahute]

Regarding the question about sourcing from and aging at Four Roses, see the thread in the Industry News sub forum. As of last year, Four Roses contract with Diageo expired and they immediately gained 40% distillation and warehouse capacity as a result.

[GrPeMi]

I did see a barrel with DSP KY #230 (Beam) when I was at Stizel-Weller for the tour last year, so I think it's certain Diageo is buying from Beam (There's been confirmation of this from Chuck). They have the most capacity so it makes sense. I would guess that they're also buying from Brown-Forman and maybe Heaven Hill. That said, Bulleit isn't Diageo's only bourbon brand so stuff aged at S-W and elsewhere could very well be going into Harper or other overseas brands.

OK...thanks. I know there's a lot of bourbon trading going on behind the scenes among the big guys...I just figured Beam was stretched for capacity like so many of the others...

Regardless...it sounds like the gross over-simplification that started this (Beam Black = cheaper Bulleit) probably not even close. I tried a bottle of 8 year Beam Black and it went down the drain. I'll actually drink Bulleit.

Thanks to Josh for filling in a lot of the blanks...

[squire]

As an addendum the brand was founded by Louisville attorney Thomas E. Bulleit, Jr., who is now employed by Diageo.

[squire]

Doubtful, because that would shift the flavor profile away from the established 95% rye MGP version as well as cut into Bourbon production.

[mosugoji64]

It's possible that they may distill some rye there but as was pointed out earlier, the capacity of the new distillery won't meet demand at current levels.

[Josh]

Any article that cites Richard Thomas as a reliable source is suspect on that basis alone.

[squire]

You may be right. However, this article disagrees with you:

Do tell, wonder where he got his information. The press release Diageo issued at their distillery ground breaking ceremony said they would make Bourbon there but didn't mention Rye. They also gave out production figures which indicate that even running at full capacity the new facility won't keep up with Bulleit Bourbon sales projections.

Wouldn't be surprised if they bottle sourced Rye there which would allow "produced and bottled by" on the label.

[Paddy]

Agree with the choir. This appears to be an amusement park distillery. Just enough to draw them in and let them see, smell, and buy!

[cowdery]

Let me see if I can do this succinctly.

Bulleit was started by Tom Bulleit in 1995. He contracted Buffalo Trace to make it. There were two expressions but the packaging was completely different from what it is now.

Some years later, Seagram's started working on a new bourbon. They wanted to do a frontier theme and they were looking at old apothecary bottles for the package design. They liked the name 'bullet' but knew that wouldn't fly, so they were developing a product called 'Bullitt,' after Bullitt County, Kentucky. (Pronounced the same as the ammunition.) Then somebody told them about Bulleit (also pronounced that way) so, like any big company would, they made Tommy an offer he couldn't refuse. Jim Rutledge suggested a particular combination of Four Roses recipes and that became Seagram's Bulleit Bourbon. Different company, different package, different whiskey.

In 2000, when Seagram's was broken up for parts, their whiskey brands including Bulleit went to Diageo except Four Roses, which went to Pernod along with the distillery. Diageo and Pernod contracted for Four Roses to make whiskey for Diageo. That sort of deal is standard when brands go one way and the distillery where they were produced goes elsewhere. That contract remained in force when Pernod sold Four Roses to Kirin almost immediately.

The initial contract involved both aged whiskey and new make, changing to all new make over time. Diageo aged the new make at its Stitzel-Weller Distillery.

Four Roses was content to fill its contract but when Diageo wanted more bourbon they said no, because they needed it for their own products, and when the contract finally ran out over a year ago, Four Roses didn't renew it.

Four Roses wasn't the only distillery making bourbon for Diageo. A few years ago, I was told that Brown-Forman, Barton and Jim Beam were each making about 2 million proof gallons of new make per year for Diageo. My source was impeccable.

At around that same time I received a report that Four Roses had conducted chemical tests and determined that Bulleit contained whiskey not made at Four Roses. At the time, Diageo was proudly promoting the fact that every drop of Bulleit Bourbon was made at Four Roses. The person who provided the report refused to go public.

A little over a year ago, I was able to confirm that Four Roses was no longer providing new make to Diageo. More recently, Brown-Forman informed me that they are no longer providing new make to Diageo or anyone else. I have been unable to nail down anything about Barton or Jim Beam.

Obviously, the whiskey in Bulleit bottles today is at least mostly Four Roses. That will be the case for a few more years. One assumes that Diageo would have been content to remain an NDP for bourbon purposes but with producers pulling back on contract production to supply their own growing brands, Diageo was forced to build a new distillery of its own.

Presumably, Diageo has enough liquid in the pipeline or still being made for it by someone to supply Bulleit, accommodating its growth, until whiskey from the new distillery is ready to go. At present, there appears to be plenty of Bulleit to go around. I hope this is helpful.

[flahute]

Indeed, that is helpful Chuck. Thanks for yet another history lesson. I learned something new today. A few things actually.

[GrPeMi]

Thanks, Chuck...I did go back and dig through your blog to find most of these bits and pieces, but it's nice to see it all integrated.

[cowdery]

You never know. After I wrote that I thought I might as well put it on the blog. It got a huge number of hits.

[ken_mays]

Thanks, Chuck...I did go back and dig through your blog to find most of these bits and pieces, but it's nice to see it all integrated.

If you haven't read Chuck's books, I highly recommend them. A lot of great info you won't find elsewhere.