Rapid Aging Hoopla

[ramblinman]

Its been a couple of years since the Cleveland folks got press for their rapid aging techniques, and with the hype machine rolling it looks like another one Lost Spirits is getting some attention, http://www.wired.com/2015/04/lost-spirits/.

Of course this is likely being oversold since every distiller in the world has all the economic incentives and research dollars to make it happen and hasn't this guy probably hasn't either. Possible yes, plausible no.

Its funny that people have been trying to do this forever, and a search through the patent office gives some good ones:

https://www.google.com/patents/US2040661 - mix the spirit with hydrogen peroxide to selectively oxidize

http://www.google.com/patents/US2487594 - age in the bottle, just throw some shredded sticks in it

http://www.google.com/patents/US2055060 - charcoal and heat, yum.

http://www.google.com/patents/US265344 - real old one, 1882 but FREDERICK STITZEL himself, forced air under heat in a pressurize system and aggitate the hell out of it.

150 years later and the search continues, but something tells me the folks at Beam, BF, and the other big guys will find it first if theres a method to be found.

[Harry in WashDC]

Somehow all this rapid "aging" of bourbon experimentation reminds me of the early days of the internet even back before there were advertisements and spam. One of the first videos I downloaded showed a guy who started his charcoal grill by lighting a liquid oxygen bath. Coals were ready in less than 20 seconds.

I can live without eyebrows, but I don't think I want to live without bourbon being at least two real, preferably six to eight real, years old. What's next? Neutral spirit with a packet you drop in and shake so the packet and its contents dissolve?

[Darwin]

I purchased a bottle of Darby's rye that was recommended to me by a sales person. The rye proudly stated that it had been "processed" for months. This was one of the worst decisions I have made in regards to spirits. The rye had a weird chemical after taste that I could not get past, the entire taste experience was awful! The bottle was poured down the drain and lesson learned.

[Flyfish]

I can live without eyebrows, but I don't think I want to live without bourbon being at least two real, preferably six to eight real, years old. What's next? Neutral spirit with a packet you drop in and shake so the packet and its contents dissolve?

Perhaps you are thinking of "instant gin." You just add a packet of juniper berries and herbs. Then it's shaken, not stirred.

[ThirstyinOhio]

Somehow all this rapid "aging" of bourbon experimentation reminds me of the early days of the internet even back before there were advertisements and spam. One of the first videos I downloaded showed a guy who started his charcoal grill by lighting a liquid oxygen bath. Coals were ready in less than 20 seconds.

I can live without eyebrows, but I don't think I want to live without bourbon being at least two real, preferably six to eight real, years old. What's next? Neutral spirit with a packet you drop in and shake so the packet and its contents dissolve?

Close, how about a powder that you just drop into water to create an alcoholic drink. http://www.palcohol.com/

[squire]

What's next? Neutral spirit with a packet you drop in and shake so the packet and its contents dissolve?

That's been done Harry, on an industrial scale in the 1870s, 80s and 90s. It was called "compound whisky", and the practice was widespread. So much in fact it was one of the principal abuses that led the the Bottled in Bond Act of 1897 that among other things defined what was real whisky.

[Richnimrod]

My own personal favorite way to quickly age a Bourbon is thus.....

Pour a nice pour of something in the 6 to 12 year age range and wait 2-minutes while it 'ages', then carefully sip upon that pour, allowing two-minute intervals between sips, until you feel the age has been perfected... then;

just sit back and enjoy the rest of the pour! You may repeat this process as often as you're inclined to do so. No charge for using my patented method!

[garbanzobean]

I keep hoping someone is going to try aging a bourbon-like mashbill in India, Taiwan, or another tropical climate. Heck, maybe Florida. You could probably get some interesting stuff after 2-4 years, but I guess that's not fast enough for these folks.

[Zeke]

Howdy!

I keep hoping someone is going to try aging a bourbon-like mashbill in India, Taiwan, or another tropical climate. Heck, maybe Florida. You could probably get some interesting stuff after 2-4 years, but I guess that's not fast enough for these folks.

Palm Ridge Reserve Micro Batch Florida Whiskey

Bottled at 90 Proof. Distilled from a mash of four grains: Corn, Barley, Malt, Rye and toasted flaked Rye. Distilled in a 60 Gallon reflux-column copper still that takes 10-11 hours to produce approximately 5 gallons of premium whiskey. Palm Ridge Reserve is put up in small 5 gallon charred oak barrels that round out and mature the whiskey very quickly - less than 1 Year.

[fishnbowljoe]

I saw some of the Palm Ridge Florida Whiskey when I was on vacation three weeks ago. I had already purchased a few things, and it didn't interest me much, so I passed on it. I did find it a bit interesting that whiskey is now being made in Florida too.

[squire]

A lot of whisky has been made in Florida for a very long time, particularly in rural parts of the Panhandle, but it doesn't show up on retail shelves.

[garbanzobean]

A lot of whisky has been made in Florida for a very long time, particularly in rural parts of the Panhandle, but it doesn't show up on retail shelves.

Yeah I meant the legal to sell kind, preferably aged in the normal sized barrels.

[bjhowell]

Actually there is a distillery near Weekee Watchee that makes a pretty decent Rye. Reminds me of Millstone Rye from Holland.

[shoshani]

Publicker’s chemist, Dr. Carl Haner, has a laboratory where he has devised a method of curing whiskey. Not only does Publicker claim it can make seventeen-year-old whiskey in twenty-four hours, but it is bottling it today. Now what do you think of that?

From Fortune, November, 1933: http://fortune.com/2012/06/24/who-is-publicker-fortune-1933/

[ramblinman]

I saw some of the Palm Ridge Florida Whiskey when I was on vacation three weeks ago. I had already purchased a few things, and it didn't interest me much, so I passed on it. I did find it a bit interesting that whiskey is now being made in Florida too.

They'd be foolish not to with the quality of water down there

[shoshani]

None of those artificial-aging techniques should be viewed as anything but novelty. The finished products speak for themselves: no one takes them seriously.

I find garbanzobean's observation of hot-climate maturation interesting and think it deserves more study. What if one of the major Kentucky distillers rented warehouse space in the arid Southwest to test a few casks of bourbon? Can you imagine the effect a place like Death Valley, CA would have on a barrel of whiskey after six years? It would be a fascinating experiment.

[squire]

Six years in the desert the barrel would be nothing but hoops and collapsed staves.

[flahute]

One of our local craft distillers ages their bourbon in eastern Washington - the hot and very dry side of the state. Winters are very cold and dry, summers are extremely hot and very dry. They have to provide humidity control in the warehouses to avoid what squire and shoshani mention above.

[deadkenny64]

I'm tempted to buy a bottle of the Lost Spirits rum to see if it is equal (or at least close) to traditional aged rum but the only online places I could find that would ship to me were pretty expensive. It would be intersting to see what would happen if you put rapid aged bourbon in barrels for a shorter period of 2-4 years but still taste like 15-23 year stuff.

[garbanzobean]

None of those artificial-aging techniques should be viewed as anything but novelty. The finished products speak for themselves: no one takes them seriously.

I find garbanzobean's observation of hot-climate maturation interesting and think it deserves more study. What if one of the major Kentucky distillers rented warehouse space in the arid Southwest to test a few casks of bourbon? Can you imagine the effect a place like Death Valley, CA would have on a barrel of whiskey after six years? It would be a fascinating experiment.

Google Taos Lightning Rye. Hot and dry might be interesting, but I'm not sure the effect would be what I was specifically looking for. I specifically picked Florida because it is hotter and more humid than Kentucky (and high heat and humidity TEND to cause water to evaporate faster than alcohol, though maybe not always), which appears to work well with malt whisky. Based on results of some preliminary research I've conducted on bottles from Kavalan and Amrut.

[heydobro]

I don't drink much malt whisky, so I can't judge for myself, but Mark Gillespie talked with guys from India recently as well as Taiwan (Kavalan) and they see brutal losses to the angels. On the flip side Kavalan releases have won lots of awards and have been highly regarded at a pretty young age.

[heydobro]

Great minds think alike garbanzobean

[garbanzobean]

I don't drink much malt whisky, so I can't judge for myself, but Mark Gillespie talked with guys from India recently as well as Taiwan (Kavalan) and they see brutal losses to the angels. On the flip side Kavalan releases have won lots of awards and have been highly regarded at a pretty young age.

Yeah, Kavalan and Amrut supposedly have to deal with angels that are an order of magnitude greedier than their Scottish cohorts, but the upside is that they can age malt whisky to maturity in 3-4 years, and the whisky is actually ready. And that's with refill barrels. I'd be interested to see how that climate would work with a bourbon style whiskey in virgin oak barrels.

[Zeke]

Howdy!

High heat isn't the only thing, the temperature needs to get cool/cold as well so that the wood disgorges the spirit as well.

[heydobro]

So what do you guys think -- two years for a full-sized cask? Should we call a master distiller to suggest the project?

We don't even need to bother a distiller. Two words: Jefferson's Dessert