No mas!

[emr454]

Since my bourbon budget keeps me in the "$50 or less" category, it's easy for me to say "no mas!". I've found a lot of good juice in the $20-30 range, so I have to ask myself if these LE offerings are really 3-4x better than my old standbys? Because of this, I've never had any of the BTAC, PHC, WRMC, PVW, etc.

Edited April 25, 2015 by emr454

[TXNewDude]

I think you'd be better off accepting that you don't HAVE to have anything. There's so much great stuff that you can just walk into a store and buy. As an alternative, consider looking at store selects to scratch your unicorn bourbon itch. They can often be better quality (and more unique) than LEs. For instance, every single private selection Four Roses I've tasted this year (6 or so) has been more to my liking than last year's Single Barrel LE. Finally, consider this: buying and selling bourbon on the BLACK market (because that's what secondary really is) is illegal. Maybe that doesn't matter to you, but plenty of folk need to be in good legal standing to maintain their jobs, and being made an example of by the ATF and/or local authorities doesn't sound like a lot of fun anyway. Consider developing a network of friends that looks out for one another and maybe does occasional tastings or bottle/sample swaps. Depending on your state laws, that is often legal, whereas monetary transactions are not. If you are going to do that, please do it privately, as we don't want to get SB in trouble. Assuming it is legal to do so in Texas, you're now making friends who share your passion and helping each other out instead of feeding an illegal market that is unhealthy for us all in the long run.

[garbanzobean]

Very insightful to this new Texas dude here. If nothing else,I definitely don't want to break the law. Much appreciated response!

[jfw]

I pay retail. I'll chase stuff at retail at my favorite stores, but I won't pay the crazy marked up prices. If I miss out on EHT cured oak so be it, I tried it at WF Chicago and it was O.K. Not really any better than OB LP or FO IMHO. The store selects FR, etc. are way better.

[DBM]

What Paddy said.........which means, what Eric said.

I totally get the allure of the LE's and how they can take over your priorities. It happened to me. I'm still transitioning out of it. I can afford secondary prices if I really want something so it's not a "grass is greener" scenario. It's coming to the realization, and it takes a while to get there, that the price jump and hassle jump for the LE's does not correspond to the quality jump at secondary prices (and sometimes even at MSRP). With that realization, the quality of some of what's readily available out there becomes more fully realized. You may have been blind to it before because you thought it was just "regular old whiskey" and that there must be much better stuff out there that you can't get your hands on. Once you identify which of the regulars do that for you, life becomes so much easier and enjoyable.

This is a great post which I completely identify with, however it's easy to overlook the fact that nearly everyone transitions through the phases of being a whiskey enthusiast, and one of those phases is acquiring LE and low production bottles and typically spending a lot of money in the process.

The only reason most of us can say "just give up on the LEs and drink what's available on the shelf" is because we've already been to, and moved past, the LE hunting and hoarding phase. While I still look, I'm content to never find another bottle of PVW, but only because I already own and have tried every bottle, as often as I wanted, to decide if it was worthy of the hype and how it compares to more easily accessible bottles. A bar pour or sample doesn't provide the level of confidence to form an opinion that drinking down a 24oz bottle will.

I'm just as guilty as the next person, but we should not be so quick to "educate" people away from trying - it has to be experienced first, secondary market or otherwise. Bourbon zen comes later.

[garbanzobean]

Great point my friend. I admit that I didn't come to this conclusion without trying plenty of LEs. But I stand fast on staying away from the black market. If I can't get it legally, I'm not buying it. Better off finding friends to share with.

[DBM]

Great point my friend. I admit that I didn't come to this conclusion without trying plenty of LEs. But I stand fast on staying away from the black market. If I can't get it legally, I'm not buying it. Better off finding friends to share with.

I grew up with the Internet. If I can't get it legally, I go online.

[Auracom]

What I truly, truly love about bourbon is the idea of "go with the flow." Bourbon is for relaxing and introspection. I've done the chase. It completely goes against the fundamental benefits of bourbon. I'm not doing it anymore.

...not saying I won't spend $100+, but only if it just falls into my lap.

Good thread, fellas.

[PaulO]

...

So starting right now I pledge that I will no longer pruchase any bottle that exceeds $100. I will never buy any over priced NAS, NDP "craft" crap offering. I will start working on drinking up my bunker and stash and once empty I will only purchase new bottles that are always on the shelf.

My future bunker/stash will consist of what's open on the bar.

Amen, hallelujah! :grin:

I will enjoy reading other members posts of their adventures pursuing the prize.

That's pretty close to my feelings. Except I believe over $50 is too much to pay. Also, I won't limit myself to what's always on the shelf. Even something like HH 6 year BIB isn't always available in the stores that carry it.

For me spending the time and money for "LE" bottles really isn't worth it for several reasons. I don't particularly care for overly woody bourbon. I understand why it's more expensive. That doesn't mean I think it tastes better. I actually wish there were more age statements around 8 years.

BT mashbill #1 is not my favorite. Some versions of it are ok. I like everything else from BT much more. So I'm just not into all the different CEHTs. If some one really loves the standard BT bourbon, and wants to try a bunch of variations, I understand.

A lot of the LEs don't get very good reviews. Here are some examples: the various Orphan Barrels, any of the recent WT products priced above Rare Breed, and Woodford's odd ball stuff. There are plenty more.

There's plenty of great bourbon. It's usually just above bottom shelf, not too expensive, or hard to find.

[Harry in WashDC]

. . . There's plenty of great bourbon. It's usually just above bottom shelf, not too expensive, or hard to find.

Well, a cynic or even a person with ulterior motives might say that all those really old and (allegedly) rare bourbons are many times better than and certainly worth their premium price compared to, oh, say VOBBIB or OGDBIB or WT101 or BT90 just so chasers spend all their time, effort, and money over there instead of over/down here where I am. Not that I'd intentionally mislead somebody eyeing any of the listed bourbons or their neighbors.

[nd2005]

I still (thankfully) have a store with a good manager who sells everything at MSRP and reserves the limited stuff for regular customers.

I don't go out of my way anymore or even bother looking elsewhere. That store gets my business and when he says he got something in for me I buy it. I'll snag one bottle of BTAC and one of the VW lineup out of this relationship next fall.

But that's it. The rest has gotten too crazy. Wilett bottles going for a grand online, Cured Oak for $300+ the second it's released. No thanks.

Sick of the whole thing and the crazy hoarders/flippers/noobs/whatever you want to call it.

[garbanzobean]

For those looking for limited/vintage/birthday stuff, Armagnacs and some Cognacs of that slant are readily available, (relatively) cheap, and very very good. If you pay $1500 for a bottle of Armagnac, it is because it is probably around 100 years old (though probably stored in glass or enormous barrels for a significant portion of that), not because the internet tells you that it's good. Still worth buying? Not to me, but the point stands that you are spoiled for choice when it comes to beautiful vintages with lots of bourbon-like characteristics. I fought brandy tooth and nail for years, but now I really enjoy it. And if I want to buy something from my mother's birth year, I can do it. Hell, I just checked and I can buy something from my 90 year old grandfather's birth year for significantly less than I would pay at the store down the road for one of their bottles of overpriced PVW23. Stuff from my birth year is available for around $100-$200.

This information won't help you if you A.) Aren't willing to give brandy a shot or B.) want LE bourbon because you want LE bourbon. Even if you don't want to try brandy, consider the possibility that diversifying outside of bourbon may pay off as this bubble continues to inflate.

Edit: I only mean for expensive stuff. For value, bourbon and other straight whiskeys (MURRICA!) are still completely unbeatable.

Edited April 28, 2015 by garbanzobean

[jakerthesnaker79]

What I truly, truly love about bourbon is the idea of "go with the flow." Bourbon is for relaxing and introspection. I've done the chase. It completely goes against the fundamental benefits of bourbon. I'm not doing it anymore.

...not saying I won't spend $100+, but only if it just falls into my lap.

Good thread, fellas.

Completely agree with this....

[Flyfish]

A few years ago I swore off $30+ bourbons. (This obviously was when $30 could get you something special.) It didn't last. For one thing, ETL drifted north of $30. Fortunately, I live in the Buckeye State where we are protected from unbounded excess. We never have to consult our wallets about the stuff some SBers drool over 'cause it ain't available at any price. The State Bourbon Master gets to decide what we should like and what we should be willing to pay. It is so comforting to know I am never going to pay outlandish prices. Unless, of course, I foolishly decide to be cheated in some other state.

[VolForLife]

Glad someone bumped this thread so that it caught my eye. I was beginning to think I might be all but alone here.

Not that I can't do it when I want to, but I just hate to pay much over 50 bucks (occasional splurge excepted) when there's so much good bourbon to be had for under that threshold.

I find that it's similar to red wine in that regard...there are plenty of really good bottles to enjoy in the $12-25 range. So to me, it's just not necessary to spend more than that except for those special occasions that call for a Silver Oak or something of that nature.

That's just me. I've never sipped PVW and I'm sure that it's amazing. But I can buy many bottles of FRSB at 35 bucks for the price of a single bottle of Pappy....[emoji6]

I've also never found any Scotch that I thought was worth the money. Then again, I don't think I've paid over $65. I've been told by some Scotch lovers that my top threshold is barely into the entry level for "smooth" Scotch. Which brings me right back to bourbons under $50 - and a variable plethora of wonderful whiskey. [emoji3]

Edited May 3, 2015 by VolForLife

[squire]

I've never sipped PVW and I'm sure that it's amazing.

Actually it's not, there's a reason why guys like me were leaving it on the shelves 30 years ago and the reason wasn't price. Oh it's good enough, I like it, just like other brands more. When you think about it for the 50 years following Prohibition Stitzel-Weller and Makers were about the only sources for wheat recipe Bourbons yet their combined sales were but a small percentage of the market. The vast majority of whisky customers (90%) purchased Rye, rye recipe Bourbon, or Rye flavored blends.

Frankly it wasn't that big of a deal back then, my friends and acquaintances who bought Old Fitz or Makers were for the most part unaware that the mash bill of their favorites contained wheat or rye. As were the guys that bought other brands, people just bought what they liked, and if tastes had turned to wheat styles other distilleries would've made them.

[MAKEITOUTOFWOOD]

Actually it's not, there's a reason why guys like me were leaving it on the shelves 30 years ago and the reason wasn't price. Oh it's good enough, I like it, just like other brands more. When you think about it for the 50 years following Prohibition Stitzel-Weller and Makers were about the only sources for wheat recipe Bourbons yet their combined sales were but a small percentage of the market. The vast majority of whisky customers (90%) purchased Rye, rye recipe Bourbon, or Rye flavored blends.

Frankly it wasn't that big of a deal back then, my friends and acquaintances who bought Old Fitz or Makers were for the most part unaware that the mash bill of their favorites contained wheat or rye. As were the guys that bought other brands, people just bought what they liked, and if tastes had turned to wheat styles other distilleries would've made them.

Makes complete and total sense.

[PaulO]

To back up what Squire said, the last bottle of Old Rip Van Winkle 10/90 cost me $40 a few years ago. It was just ok. I have definitely had bottles of Weller ($25 or so) that tasted better to me.

[flahute]

To back up what Squire said, the last bottle of Old Rip Van Winkle 10/90 cost me $40 a few years ago. It was just ok. I have definitely had bottles of Weller ($25 or so) that tasted better to me.

[squire]

A rose by another name Steve.

[Phil T]

The eye opener for me this year was the OWA107 I have that is better than the ORVW10yr I put so much effort into getting.

I have several different bottlings of OWA SB that are the best wheaters I have ever drunk. Period. YMMV

[Tony Santana]

I've got so much bourbon right now - covering a spectrum of prices - that I have no real need to search out more LE's. But I still buy them. I enjoy trying something that is (hopefully) unique, and I'll admit to a bit of a collector mentality (I come by it honestly, my old man collected coins, stamps, beer mugs, jazz LP's, etc.).

That said, I'm not really chasing anymore and I've never resorted to the secondary market. I've bought enough in the last couple of years that I've developed a couple of relationships (one more fruitful than the other) that allow me to snag at least some LE's at close to MSR with minimal effort. For example, last fall I got 3 of 5 BTAC's, ORVW10, PVW 15 & 20 and 4RSmBLE. I can live with that. I'm more likely to drink OGD114 or ER10 or whatever, but do sample the pricier ones on a not infrequent basis, and enjoy them. If they dried up entirely and I never bought another, I could easily get by on staples.

[leebo]

I only pay retail and chase just a little. I had the great idea a long time ago to stock up a LOT. Like when the BTAC were $42 per. Bunker is still pretty big. I still think OGD 114 for $21 is awesome. At the NH stores, EWSB is still $23 and the baby saz is $25. Last years OFBB was good as well as the EC 12 barrel proof, both around $ 50 here in MA.

[HighInTheMtns]

Toe or not toe,

Who do you think you are? What kind of self-entitled prick joins a forum and then two months later is berating people for not sending him bottles?

Besides, $35 is a nice price, but not too far off of average for regular FRSB. NO ONE WAS DOING ANY BOASTING.

[The Black Tot]

I'm becoming a tougher and tougher customer.

What I have learned and now have to put into a practical outlook is that even if I miss 80% of the limiteds, I'll still be buying more than I probably drink in a year.

I'm at the grateful point where I can now turn inwards and drink from the bunker with zen while the boom frenzy boils over.

I missed Cured Oak, and I didn't even flinch. Would have bought bottles if I saw 'em, but don't care that it didn't happen. I gleefully passed on Blade and Bow 22 and IW Harper 15.

I think right now the hatches are battened down, and if I get 3 or 4 limiteds in the rest of this year I'll be over the moon.

Like Tony, though, I'm still buying if they're good value and they're offered to me. I ain't done yet by a long shot - but I AM switching to a different gear.