A question about Old Fitzgerald

[alstevens]

Hi all! This is my first post here. I'm 33 so being born in 1982 I missed out on all the classic stuff. I've been drinking bourbon since the legal age but its usually just Maker's or Old Fitz Prime when the wallet hurts. All of a sudden I've gotten into it, reading about it, and well purchasing and sampling as much as I can.

I've stumbled on a few places here in IL that carry Old Fitz BIB and to be totally honest I think it's great stuff. I see it's not so well loved compared to OGD BIB or VOB BIB. But maybe my taste hasn't developed well enough yet.

I understand the current Heaven Hills OF BIB isn't the same juice as the Stitzel Weller stuff.

But was it always a bottom shelf bourbon? I mean that lovingly. I have a bunch of friends into bourbon now, heck it's the thing my generation is doing now. Sometimes I think I'm the only one my age looking into and researching the "old" names. I know an old bottle of sw Old Fitz goes for $$, but did it initially cost much to the original purchaser?

[Paddy]

Hi all! This is my first post here. I'm 33 so being born in 1982 I missed out on all the classic stuff. I've been drinking bourbon since the legal age but its usually just Maker's or Old Fitz Prime when the wallet hurts. All of a sudden I've gotten into it, reading about it, and well purchasing and sampling as much as I can.

I've stumbled on a few places here in IL that carry Old Fitz BIB and to be totally honest I think it's great stuff. I see it's not so well loved compared to OGD BIB or VOB BIB. But maybe my taste hasn't developed well enough yet.

I understand the current Heaven Hills OF BIB isn't the same juice as the Stitzel Weller stuff.

But was it always a bottom shelf bourbon? I mean that lovingly. I have a bunch of friends into bourbon now, heck it's the thing my generation is doing now. Sometimes I think I'm the only one my age looking into and researching the "old" names. I know an old bottle of sw Old Fitz goes for $$, but did it initially cost much to the original purchaser?

Welcome Al. To answer your question, the 'old" OF was always a bargain bottom shelfer. Those in the know, always knew that the old stuff was better than the price indicated. Back in the day, my father in law would buy cases of it to give away as Christmas presents. I always snagged as many as I could get my hands on (from the non-drinking relatives of course).:grin:

Edited April 29, 2015 by Paddy
spelling

[alstevens]

Welcome Al. To answer your question, the 'old" OF was always a bargain bottom shelfer. Those in the know, always knew that the old stuff was better than the price indicated. Back in the day, my father in law would buy cases of it to give away as Christmas presents. I always snagged as many as I could get my hands on (from the non-drinking relatives of course).:grin:

Thanks for the welcome and the response.

I'm on a bit of a quest to try and relive the bourbon experience my grandfather's generation would have.

I love walking into a shop like Binnys and browsing all the various bottles. I like buying expensive bottles too this is a fun hobby for me.

But there's something appealing about the old names. I understand most of them have changed hands and aren't made the same and probably don't taste like what my grandfather and his buddies drank. Maybe its because I'm reading a lot about Bourbon history too but something makes me very sad when I see my generation ignoring the old brands.

When you say it was always a "bargain bottom shelfer." Wasn't pretty much everything of my Grandfather's generation like that?

[squire]

Hey Al, welcome aboard. Just as a point of reference, in the old days the top of the line standard was 8yrs/100 proof. These were higher priced and placed higher on the shelves (for psychological reasons also) but were not higher quality than the same brand bottled at lower age/proof and selling for less. The were differences between the distilleries of course, Old Taylor used white corn and more malt, Old Grand Dad used a higher percentage of rye, Yellowstone stills had a reflux system that produced a very clean spirit that emphasized fruity elements of the distillate, but the differences within the same brand were primarily age and proof.

I expect you'll want to try them all (as did we), that's part of the journey, yet as the orbit of your experience grows larger rely on your own taste buds and use price as just one of the guidelines.

[squire]

When you say it was always a "bargain bottom shelfer." Wasn't pretty much everything of my Grandfather's generation like that?

Yes, pretty much, though I think there was a stronger sense of brand loyalty as well. Also a feeling of frugality prevailed and paying too much was considered poor form. If a man knew his Bourbon he knew what good whisky was worth and overpaying was just showing off.

[Special Reserve]

Al,

First welcome to SB. This is a great to learn.

I'm a generation older (my daughter was also born in 1982), my dad never bought bourbon that was not a bottle in bond. He always claimed that it was better and a better value. Where we lived lower shelf whiskey was the order of the day.

My grandpas made their own. Both made barrels of hard cider each year, one even had a still.

There are some bargain bottom or lower shelf bourbons. Take some time to experiment.

Be well.

Will

[Paddy]

Thanks for the welcome and the response.

I'm on a bit of a quest to try and relive the bourbon experience my grandfather's generation would have.

I love walking into a shop like Binnys and browsing all the various bottles. I like buying expensive bottles too this is a fun hobby for me.

But there's something appealing about the old names. I understand most of them have changed hands and aren't made the same and probably don't taste like what my grandfather and his buddies drank. Maybe its because I'm reading a lot about Bourbon history too but something makes me very sad when I see my generation ignoring the old brands.

When you say it was always a "bargain bottom shelfer." Wasn't pretty much everything of my Grandfather's generation like that?

As another point of reference, many here (myself included) passed over hundreds if not thousands of bottles of Old Rip Wan Winkle back in the day. We knew it was good, but it was too expensive given the many alternatives of fine quality available at the time, at a much lower price point (such as SW Old Fitz).

[Grain Belt]

Old Fitz is an interesting pour to me. As self-appointed bottom shelf aficionado I have tried almost all distributed to the hinterland of northern Minnesota. Old Fitz is mediocre to me neat or with a splash of water. For some reason I can't get enough of the stuff if its in a Manhattan or Old Fashioned. The OP mentioned he is on a type of journey. I have enjoyed working classic cocktails into my repertoire. Maybe that will be part of your journey.

[Hop]

Welcome.

Your comment about developing palate may not be the case. I'm a big fan of OFBIB but not of VOB, or OGDBIB. Just remember everyone is different and don't sweat it if something isn't in your wheelhouse.

[JDSmith619]

Yes, pretty much, though I think there was a stronger sense of brand loyalty as well. Also a feeling of frugality prevailed and paying too much was considered poor form. If a man knew his Bourbon he knew what good whisky was worth and overpaying was just showing off.

I just learned more from that post then you probably intended. So much knowledge to gain from here.

[alstevens]

Welcome.

Your comment about developing palate may not be the case. I'm a big fan of OFBIB but not of VOB, or OGDBIB. Just remember everyone is different and don't sweat it if something isn't in your wheelhouse.

[flahute]

Thank you. I'm glad to see someone else likes OFBIB. It seems to be the least popular when compared to VOB or OGDBIB. The later two receive heaps of praise while OFBIB is sort of mixed reviews. I do like VOBBIB and OGDBIB as well.

But back to wheaters. I previously found Weller SR 90 for 19.99. Lately its been $25 to 27ish. Some of the liquor stores are pricing it higher lately. I really like it. But when I can grab OFBIB for $15. I'm really liking it even more.

[alstevens]

I really like VOB and OGDBIB. Limited availability prevents me from trying the Old Fitz and slotting it in to that group. I'm a fan of OF12 so I imagine I'd like the BIB given it's price point.

[5cents]

Great point. I'm wondering if it's limited availability is what's being reflected in me seeing more love for VOB and OGDBIB.

I've read in a few places online that Old Fitz was going to be discontinued. I actually emailed Heaven Hills and received this message:

"Master Distillers Parker and Craig Beam have preserved the traditional formula and techniques, while adding the benefits of seven generations of Bourbon distilling expertise to produce Old Fitzgerald Bourbon. With the rising interest in wheated spirits, we have had to allocate distribution to Kentucky, Illinois and Wisconsin markets only."

So I'm fortunate to be living in IL. It's not everywhere here but I've always been able to locate 1.75 and 750 ML bottles of both Old Fitz Prime and BIB. 750 ML bottles of BIB are the hardest to find.

Strangely I just emailed Heaven Hill Monday the same questions. I have yet to get a response. I am making a trip to southern Illinois next week and will have to keep my eyes peeled. I haven't been able to find any old fitz my last few trips to Kentucky. I stocked up on the BIB last year when I was told it was being discontinued from a guy at the Liquor Barn. I have one bottle of prime and would like to grab another just in case. I enjoy wheated bourbons and enjoy the BIB. I haven't tried the Prime yet as I am also working on a collection for when my sons get old enough to enjoy it so that one bottle has been collecting dust.

Thanks for providing the info from Heaven Hill and welcome aboard to the forum.

[alstevens]

Strangely I just emailed Heaven Hill Monday the same questions. I have yet to get a response. I am making a trip to southern Illinois next week and will have to keep my eyes peeled. I haven't been able to find any old fitz my last few trips to Kentucky. I stocked up on the BIB last year when I was told it was being discontinued from a guy at the Liquor Barn. I have one bottle of prime and would like to grab another just in case. I enjoy wheated bourbons and enjoy the BIB. I haven't tried the Prime yet as I am also working on a collection for when my sons get old enough to enjoy it so that one bottle has been collecting dust.

Thanks for providing the info from Heaven Hill and welcome aboard to the forum.

The Prime is thinner. Obviously.

If I had to introduce someone to Bourbon it would be a good choice. I've heard Maker's is a gateway as to it's a pretty easy sipper. Prime is easier IMO.

[Mark_M]

Not to jump on top of this thread, but I was told by my father (who is 89) that my granddad drank that stuff way back. He died in the late 60's. Has it been around that long? I remember buying the 100 proof BIB version (always with the Red sticker across the cap) in the early 80's as a tribute to him. To be honest, I haven't tried it since then, but see it around all over here in MN. Nostalgia. Thanks

[weller_tex]

Great point. I'm wondering if it's limited availability is what's being reflected in me seeing more love for VOB and OGDBIB.

I've read in a few places online that Old Fitz was going to be discontinued. I actually emailed Heaven Hills and received this message:

"Master Distillers Parker and Craig Beam have preserved the traditional formula and techniques, while adding the benefits of seven generations of Bourbon distilling expertise to produce Old Fitzgerald Bourbon. With the rising interest in wheated spirits, we have had to allocate distribution to Kentucky, Illinois and Wisconsin markets only."

So I'm fortunate to be living in IL. It's not everywhere here but I've always been able to locate 1.75 and 750 ML bottles of both Old Fitz Prime and BIB. 750 ML bottles of BIB are the hardest to find.

Larceny is the current wheater that HH is pushing. I can imagine that is where most of their wheated distillate is going. Larceny is supposed to be a mix of wheated bourbons 6-10 years old. I imagine very little 10. It is still a very good bourbon. It doesn't seem to get pushed much, though.

Edited April 30, 2015 by weller_tex

[gblick]

..I remember buying the 100 proof BIB version (always with the Red sticker across the cap) in the early 80's as a tribute to him..

I thought the BIB versions normally had a green tax strip, and it was the non-BIB's that had a red one. Someone please correct me if I'm mistaken.

[Mark_M]

I thought the BIB versions normally had a green tax strip, and it was the non-BIB's that had a red one. Someone please correct me if I'm mistaken.

[mosugoji64]

HH really hit their stride with the Old Fitz line in the past 5 or so years, IMHO. Prior to that it was pretty rough. I still don't care for Prime as it's too thin and under-proofed but the others are very good. I had the opportunity to speak to Craig Beam about the shrinking availability of the Old Fitz line at the Bardstown Sampler last weekend. He said that they're doing all they can to meet demand in the current market but still struggling. He said that limiting distribution of some brands and suspending their private selection program are a couple of ways they're dealing with the issue. Presumably, the limited availability of the wheated bourbons is an early indicator of the trouble they're having with meeting demand given that they make less of it than their rye bourbons. While HH recently expanded distribution of Larceny, he didn't know when/if that would continue.

[kcgumbohead]

This post is one of the things I love about SB, just a great deal of info and knowledge to be had here. Thanks Squire!!

Hey Al, welcome aboard. Just as a point of reference, in the old days the top of the line standard was 8yrs/100 proof. These were higher priced and placed higher on the shelves (for psychological reasons also) but were not higher quality than the same brand bottled at lower age/proof and selling for less. The were differences between the distilleries of course, Old Taylor used white corn and more malt, Old Grand Dad used a higher percentage of rye, Yellowstone stills had a reflux system that produced a very clean spirit that emphasized fruity elements of the distillate, but the differences within the same brand were primarily age and proof.

I expect you'll want to try them all (as did we), that's part of the journey, yet as the orbit of your experience grows larger rely on your own taste buds and use price as just one of the guidelines.

[T Comp]

HH really hit their stride with the Old Fitz line in the past 5 or so years, IMHO. Prior to that it was pretty rough. I still don't care for Prime as it's too thin and under-proofed but the others are very good. I had the opportunity to speak to Craig Beam about the shrinking availability of the Old Fitz line at the Bardstown Sampler last weekend. He said that they're doing all they can to meet demand in the current market but still struggling. He said that limiting distribution of some brands and suspending their private selection program are a couple of ways they're dealing with the issue. Presumably, the limited availability of the wheated bourbons is an early indicator of the trouble they're having with meeting demand given that they make less of it than their rye bourbons. While HH recently expanded distribution of Larceny, he didn't know when/if that would continue.

The only problem I have with what Craig told you Brian, as it applies to wheaters, is what private selection program being suspended. Anybody seen or know of any private or even store picks on any of their wheaters? A couple years ago there were a few over the hill DSP-16 barrels still hanging in their rick house, and somewhat being offered at top dollar by them, but that's all I know. Maybe he really means the pipeline to Luxco for Rebell Yell.

[tanstaafl2]

The only problem I have with what Craig told you Brian, as it applies to wheaters, is what private selection program being suspended. Anybody seen or know of any private or even store picks on any of their wheaters? A couple years ago there were a few over the hill DSP-16 barrels still hanging in their rick house, and somewhat being offered at top dollar by them, but that's all I know. Maybe he really means the pipeline to Luxco for Rebell Yell.

I seem to recall some dodgy bourbon themed internet site getting a couple of wheater barrel picks in the recent past... :cool:

[Paddy]

I seem to recall some dodgy bourbon themed internet site getting a couple of wheater barrel picks in the recent past... :cool:

I heard that stuff was swill...

[T Comp]

I seem to recall some dodgy bourbon themed internet site getting a couple of wheater barrel picks in the recent past... :cool:

Oh yeah, did kind of forget about those beauties Bruce. But I was thinking more along the lines of barrels destined for Fitz or now Larceny due to touching only new charred white oak :grin:.