Eagle Rare from Mashbill #2

[ramblinman]

Thought this was interesting. Over in the, oddly grating, bourbon subreddit a shop owner was sharing some pictures of his first barrel purchase and in the usual fawning someone noticed it was stamped "Mashbill 2", which isn't the usual one for Eagle Rare. http://www.reddit.com/r/bourbon/comments/36ib43/a_milestone_in_my_career/cre82df

He asked BT and this is the response he got:

"Yes, typically Eagle Rare is assigned to Rye Mash Bourbon #1 but given the relative similarity of the two recipes we sometimes come across barrels made using Rye Mash Bourbon #2 that match the taste profile of Eagle Rare perfectly as was the case with this barrel selection."

I know they're pretty close ratios for both their mashbills but this surprised me, figured that extra 5% of rye would make enough difference that the profiles would never overlap, but I guess stranger things have happened. I've never been very big on the expressions from mashbill #1, outside of Stagg/Stagg JR they've always been over-oaked to me, but maybe that all comes down to barrel selection and aging more than ingredients.

Edited May 20, 2015 by ramblinman

[amg]

I've had a store pick of BT that tasted an awful lot like ETL, so it makes sense to me.

[Flyfish]

I sometimes wonder how many of us can actually recognize the relative contribution of rye to the taste of bourbon. Comments on SB suggest that some bourbons make a "high-rye" impression even though they are not. I seem to recall Jim Rutledge saying that the spiciness we associate with rye might actually be the effect of the yeast. When BT set up their experimental collection, tasters responding to the survey sometimes detected "rye spice" in wheated bourbon.

So, SBers, how confident are you in your ability to gauge the rye content when tasting blind?

[garbanzobean]

I sometimes wonder how many of us can actually recognize the relative contribution of rye to the taste of bourbon. Comments on SB suggest that some bourbons make a "high-rye" impression even though they are not. I seem to recall Jim Rutledge saying that the spiciness we associate with rye might actually be the effect of the yeast. When BT set up their experimental collection, tasters responding to the survey sometimes detected "rye spice" in wheated bourbon.

So, SBers, how confident are you in your ability to gauge the rye content when tasting blind?

[VT Mike]

I sometimes wonder how many of us can actually recognize the relative contribution of rye to the taste of bourbon. Comments on SB suggest that some bourbons make a "high-rye" impression even though they are not. I seem to recall Jim Rutledge saying that the spiciness we associate with rye might actually be the effect of the yeast. When BT set up their experimental collection, tasters responding to the survey sometimes detected "rye spice" in wheated bourbon.

So, SBers, how confident are you in your ability to gauge the rye content when tasting blind?

Good point. The first time I tasted Old Weller Antique I was surprised that a wheated bourbon would have as much spiciness as it did.

[Richnimrod]

I find this exceedingly strange.

Don't the barrels get that stamp upon their end before they go into the rickhouse for aging?

If that assumption is correct, then how would the folx at BT know, so many years in advance, that this particular barrel would defy the odds and wind up in the profile of ER???

ANYONE WHO KNOWS... If my original assumption is incorrect, please correct my misconception.

[Josh]

I also find this to be exceedingly strange.

[dcbt]

I took it to mean that when tasting the barrels after aging, they realized they had something closer to ER10 on their hands than Blantons (or whatever.)

[Kyjd75]

I took it to mean that when tasting the barrels after aging, they realized they had something closer to ER10 on their hands than Blantons (or whatever.)

Yea, but that is what used to be AAA 10 yr. Guess you can sell it for a lot more labeled as ER10.

[Chris m]

So, SBers, how confident are you in your ability to gauge the rye content when tasting blind?

Not confident at all.

I've grown wary of the rye=spiciness mantra. Even in ryes. For the life of me I don't get spicy from HWRR or Saz.

That being said, I find my palate generally untrustworthy.

The first time I tasted Old Weller Antique I was surprised that a wheated bourbon would have as much spiciness as it did.

I think the same thing each time I drink it. I've given it blind to people (both experienced and unexperienced) and they have never guessed it was wheated (or, if unexperienced, it was not described as "smooth and sweet" that everyone claims wheated bourbon to be)

[Paddy]

Yea, but that is what used to be AAA 10 yr. Guess you can sell it for a lot more labeled as ER10.

I'm glad someone said it (and took the words right out of my mouth)...

[garbanzobean]

So, SBers, how confident are you in your ability to gauge the rye content when tasting blind?

My palate is excellent at determining what I like and don't like. Beyond that, I can generally pick out peat, bourbon barrel traits, and wine barrel traits in scotch. As for bourbons . . . look, after tasting some really amazing brandies and rums this year, I'm not convinced I can tell bourbon from rye, rum, or brandy blind. Especially if any of the entrants into this blind tasting competition are significantly off profile from a typical example of the spirit.

[Josh]

We used to have a blind tasting contest at KBF time and it's really difficult! At least for me it was.

[squire]

I'm not surprised at all. Individual barrels are just that, individual, so if it meets the profile then it is what it is. Master Distillers from different houses in interviews have stated about 66-70% of the flavor in a finished Bourbon comes from the barrel with the remainder split between yeast and mashbill. The more I get into the technical details about how Bourbon is crafted the less emphasis I place on a mashbill.

[ramblinman]

The more I get into the technical details about how Bourbon is crafted the less emphasis I place on a mashbill.

the more I learn the less I know

[jsrudd]

How is BT allowed to choose between mashbill #1 and #2 for its bourbons?

I thought that BT made mashbill #2 under contract for Age International and just acted as the US distributor for bourbons based on mashbill #2.

[Harry in WashDC]

the more I learn the less I know

[Richnimrod]

The point I was trying to make (maybe it wasn't clear) is that; If someone contracts with BT to do a barrel pick of Eagle Rare, my assumption is that only bourbons put in the warehouse marked as 'Eagle rare' would be pulled, and only those would be tasted by the folx choosing the barrel. If this barrel just happened to taste like Eagle Rare to someone after it was pulled for some other brand to be bottled (or chosen) as that other brand it would still be marked on the end of the barrel as THAT OTHER BRAND, no?

How then, would such a barrel ever be one in a barrel tasting for an Eagle Rare selection???? If I'm choosing ER, and someone rolls in 8-barrels one of which isn't marked ER, I'm gonna point that mistake out to 'em and ask for it to be replaced.....unless some person or group is foolish enough to do such a selection BLIND..... Makes no sense at all to me.

[jsrudd]

The point I was trying to make (maybe it wasn't clear) is that; If someone contracts with BT to do a barrel pick of Eagle Rare, my assumption is that only bourbons put in the warehouse marked as 'Eagle rare' would be pulled, and only those would be tasted by the folx choosing the barrel. If this barrel just happened to taste like Eagle Rare to someone after it was pulled for some other brand to be bottled (or chosen) as that other brand it would still be marked on the end of the barrel as THAT OTHER BRAND, no?

How then, would such a barrel ever be one in a barrel tasting for an Eagle Rare selection???? If I'm choosing ER, and someone rolls in 8-barrels one of which isn't marked ER, I'm gonna point that mistake out to 'em and ask for it to be replaced.....unless some person or group is foolish enough to do such a selection BLIND..... Makes no sense at all to me.

[Chris m]

And we have an answer. I am copying this directly from a Buffalo Trace Employee.Thank you for your question about the Eagle Rare barrel using Rye Mash Bourbon #2.

Yes, typically Eagle Rare is assigned to Rye Mash Bourbon #1 but given the relative similarity of the two recipes we sometimes come across barrels made using Rye Mash Bourbon #2 that match the taste profile of Eagle Rare perfectly as was the case with this barrel selection.

Many variables effect the taste of bourbon whiskey. Depending on the wood and warehouse location, each barrel matures differently. For example, sometimes a barrel slated to become Blanton’s may start developing a taste profile more similar to Eagle Rare. For that barrel, we’ll monitor it closely as it ages to ten years old. We can only make this determination by taste and that is why our tasting panel is so critical.

In fact, we taste and approve every barrel in our ‘Single Barrel Select’ program in advance of customers. These are some of our best barrels and certain to match the taste profile of each brand.

Thanks again for asking, we appreciate the question and interest in our various recipes.

[EvergladeSlim]

unless some person or group is foolish enough to do such a selection BLIND..... Makes no sense at all to me.

[mosugoji64]

I've had a store pick of BT that tasted an awful lot like ETL, so it makes sense to me.

[Enoch]

I had one like that as well. Picked it up in Indy so it may have been the same one.

I would also be interested in how much freedom Sazerac has to use the AI barrels. I was under the impression they were owned by AI and for their use only. Does this mean Mash #1 Blantons could be out there? Maybe Chuck can chime in with some insight.

[Enoch]

I sometimes wonder how many of us can actually recognize the relative contribution of rye to the taste of bourbon. Comments on SB suggest that some bourbons make a "high-rye" impression even though they are not. I seem to recall Jim Rutledge saying that the spiciness we associate with rye might actually be the effect of the yeast. When BT set up their experimental collection, tasters responding to the survey sometimes detected "rye spice" in wheated bourbon.

So, SBers, how confident are you in your ability to gauge the rye content when tasting blind?

[squire]

I've had new guests at a blind tasting willing to place bets on the outcome. They didn't at the second tasting though.