Barrel aging Weller 12??

[latech15]

Just wondering if anybody has tried to further barrel age Weller 12 in one of the small barrels since it is supposedly a younger version of some of the pappy's? I was able to get some recently and while it is good, I find that I like some other bourbons better. I haven't found any of the OWA to mix with it so I was thinking that maybe this would be a possibility.

Your thoughts please. Feel free to let me know if this is a waste of good bourbon.

[flahute]

See this thread just recently resurrected:

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?22935-If-you-had-a-5-liter-charred-barrel

It's hard to get great results so go in with low expectations. The experiment is surely fun though.

[petrel800]

As a huge fan of Weller 12, I'd have to say yes to your last statement. To me a huge waste of good bourbon, but I find mixing it with OWA to be a waste for me as well. However, that is my opinion based on my experiences.

I suppose you have to ask what your goal is, if it's to replicate some sort of Van Winkle mystique you will likely be disappointed. If it's to have some fun and to see what happens with a bottle that may not be one of your favorites than have at it and let us know how it works out.

Edited August 2, 2015 by petrel800

[latech15]

I find the Weller 12 to be incredibly smooth and easy to drink. Keep in mind that I only just began my journey down this road, so my palate and vocabulary are both rather immature when tasting and describing bourbons. Though I like w12 much better, I would describe Basil Hayden's in the same way. Good flavor, just a little watered down. I like the 4R stuff because I feel like I am getting more flavors, not just easy to drink. I recently tried another old one that has been described as woody and I really liked it. I'm thinking that if the smoothness could be maintained and a little Oaky-ness added, that it would be better "to me".

[petrel800]

I find the Weller 12 to be incredibly smooth and easy to drink. Keep in mind that I only just began my journey down this road, so my palate and vocabulary are both rather immature when tasting and describing bourbons. Though I like w12 much better, I would describe Basil Hayden's in the same way. Good flavor, just a little watered down. I like the 4R stuff because I feel like I am getting more flavors, not just easy to drink. I recently tried another old one that has been described as woody and I really liked it. I'm thinking that if the smoothness could be maintained and a little Oaky-ness added, that it would be better "to me".

You may find your not a huge fan of wheated bourbons, I enjoy a few, but skew towards higher rye recipes. My advice to you if you're starting your journey would be to try as many of the standard offering wheated bourbons and see which ones resonate with you. You'll also appreciate a Van Winkle or a William Larue Weller a whole lot more with the underlying experience gained. You may also find that while a Van Winkle or a WLW is good or great, in a lot of cases, the time and money required to acquire them these days may not be worth it to you. A lot of wheated bourbons can be had in minis, so minimal investment would be needed to start that journey, I think that may be a better use of time and energy over trying to rebarrel a whiskey to replicate a whiskey you may not have even sampled yet.

On a side note, If you enjoy the 4Roses and enjoy the Basil Hyden, you may want to grab some Old Grand Dad BIB and 114.

Edited August 2, 2015 by petrel800

[mosugoji64]

I don't think the small barrels impart much of the mature oak flavor that comes from a large barrel. Instead, they give whiskey a woody twang reminiscent of sucking on a matchstick.

[Richnimrod]

I don't think the small barrels impart much of the mature oak flavor that comes from a large barrel. Instead, they give whiskey a woody twang reminiscent of sucking on a matchstick.

In general; I agree. ....With the the added descriptors, that the matchstick should have been burned about half-way down first, and that the sucking is to be done with just a bit of bourbon... you know, for actual flavor. HA!

[pmsummer]

Just wondering if anybody has tried to further barrel age Weller 12 in one of the small barrels since it is supposedly a younger version of some of the pappy's? I was able to get some recently and while it is good, I find that I like some other bourbons better. I haven't found any of the OWA to mix with it so I was thinking that maybe this would be a possibility.

Your thoughts please. Feel free to let me know if this is a waste of good bourbon.

Just to set the record straight (no pun intended), W.L. Weller 12 is the EXACT SAME WHISKEY as Pappy Van Winkle Lot "B". Same juice, same age. The 'difference' (beyond hype) is that the Van Winkles get first pick of the barrels. Increasingly, Van Winkle relies on the Buffalo Trace/Weller product as the old stocks of Stitzel-Weller whiskey is used up.

The expertise that goes into producing quality bourbon is not to be under estimated. I would encourage you to have fun and attend some 'Bourbon Tastings' if there are any available if you area. Lots of delightful variations with distinct characteristics.

Enjoy!

[GaryT]

I don't think the small barrels impart much of the mature oak flavor that comes from a large barrel. Instead, they give whiskey a woody twang reminiscent of sucking on a matchstick.

I'd second this - a small barrel won't add more maturity; it will add some of the flavor you see even in young bourbon compared to white dog (some of the vanilla, etc). I'm also not a big fan of Weller 12 neat, but thankfully have OWA to blend it with. I'd suggest maybe try some small mingles with other higher proof bourbons to see what you think, before putting it in a barrel. While I had better-than-expected results with my first barrel experiment, the key word there is "experiment". I was comfortable dumping that barrel in the trash if I had to. I definitely wouldn't expect Weller 12 to come out anything like an older Pappy. Maturity only happens with time. I do think barrel-aging mingles might help the two get along differently than just mingling in a bottle, but I'd never kid myself that they are accelerating the aging process.

But - ultimately, its your Weller 12. If it sounds like fun and you want to give it a shot, only one way to find out. And if you're having fun - that's the important thing. But be prepared to likely be disappointed.

[jsrudd]

Buffalo Trace did a small barrel experiment a few years ago. Their conclusion was that small barrels do not impart the same types of flavors as larger barrels - bourbon aged in small barrels for six years was undrinkable.

Slide 34 of this presentation given at an ADI conference shows the differences in the chemical make-up of bourbons aged in different barrels. As you can see, the results of the chemical reactions in the barrel seem to vary dramatically based on the size of the barrel.

[Bourbonmakesmepoop]

On August 2, 2015 at 8:45 PM, jsrudd said:

Buffalo Trace did a small barrel experiment a few years ago. Their conclusion was that small barrels do not impart the same types of flavors as larger barrels - bourbon aged in small barrels for six years was undrinkable.

Slide 34 of this presentation given at an ADI conference shows the differences in the chemical make-up of bourbons aged in different barrels. As you can see, the results of the chemical reactions in the barrel seem to vary dramatically based on the size of the barrel.

I wonder what would happen if you aged white dog in a barrel the size of a house?!?!?

now there's an experiment for buffalo trace. Use entire trees for staves

[ken_mays]

You might think about mixing in a little oaky bourbon like Stagg Jr. to give it a little more bite.

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On 6/20/2016 at 11:16 PM, Bourbonmakesmepoop said:

I wonder what would happen if you aged white dog in a barrel the size of a house?!?!?

now there's an experiment for buffalo trace. Use entire trees for staves

They have done experiments with larger barrels as well. The current barrel size was found to be pretty much optimal with regards to aging/flavor. 

[OldDrinker1978]

I love my Weller 12 as it is I must say but could see some benefits for OWA with further aging to smooth it out some. I've experimented with some charred wooden chips and bourbon I am not liking so much to give it some more "age" and the results are interesting at best so far.

On topic of Pappy vs Weller. I had some Pappy 15 vs Weller lately and I must say Pappy is awesome but the Weller 12 stands its on against it. Pappy more fruity and bigger, the Weller more creamy, vanilla with more char. Pappy was good but paying that price is crazy.

[BFerguson]

They have done experiments with larger barrels as well. The current barrel size was found to be pretty much optimal with regards to aging/flavor. 

Yes, but the giant French oak barrel release they did a number of years ago was mighty tasty.

Made a good argument to me that a larger barrel could do very well.

B

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