What KBD bourbon should I try?

[Golzee]

Looking at my small (but growing) bunker, I realized that I don't have any KBD bourbon. I tried Willet pot still a few years back, but, that is my only experience with KBD. Browsing their website I saw they produce quite a few products. I am curious about a few of their brands (Johnny Drum PS, Pure Kentucky, Vintage Ketucky, pretty much everything up to $50). My question is, which should I try (if any)? I will say that I probably won't get any of the Willet labels due to their price. Any suggestions are appreciated.

[Harry in WashDC]

I hate to be no help, but . . .

About the only way you'll know is to taste them yourself. I'm no fan of the Old Bardstown Estate Bottled stuff - nevernever been able to finish even a small pour, but some people I know and like (and can split a 750 of, say, OGD bonded with) love it. Some Willetts and some Rowan's Mill are fine with me, but, unfortunately, I have to taste from the bottle before I'll know as they are not necessarily consistent year to year. That's tough to do when you are in a store. They frown on tasting before buying.:cool: One hint - look through the threads for discussions of what you can find and, based on what people with similar tastes to you say, pick something to try. Beware, though, of my experience with Estate Bottled stuff noted above.

[SqueakScolari]

Not a big fan of their cheaper brands, but I do like Noah's Mill.

[flahute]

KBD's are inconsistent from batch to batch so be careful. I've had some great Johnny Drum Private Stock and some really bad Kentucky Vintage and Noah's Mill.

[jsrudd]

I generally stay away from their stuff because I have no idea what's actually in the bottle, but I have enjoyed Noah's Mill. Also the Willett Family Estate bottlings can be good depending on who picked the barrel.

[squire]

Or if it was a barrel, bulk whisky is often transported in 500 gallon plastic totes.

[Richnimrod]

FWIW, I have had a couple of veeery nice bottles of Noah's Mill. However, those were in the past; the more recent purchases of that brand have left me somewhat disappointed, for the price.

If you like 'em with some obvious age characteristics, NM can be a nice pour, if not quite as fabulous as it once was.

I've always had at least decent bottles of Johnny Drum Private Stock, but that's a pretty small sample, having only ever had four bottles.

Hope some of this helps you, Golzee.

[amg]

I've had a few that I enjoyed, but I've had others (sometimes of the same label) that were disappointing. Noah's Mill is the only one I'm likely to purchase again. The bottle I had of the "pot still reserve" was one of the worst bourbons I've ever tasted.

[Tony Santana]

Bought one bottle of Johnny Drum, thought it was okay (but so much wax that it was difficult to open), but nothing so special that I wouldn't rather buy EC12 or BT or ER10 or 4RSmB (you get the picture) for around the same price. Noah's Mill costs more than Rowan's Creek, and I realize they vary from batch to batch, but I've always preferred the latter to the former. That said, I just bought another bottle of Noah's Mill as I've actually heard the more recent batches are very good. Haven't cracked it open yet, nor have I opened my bottle of Pure Kentucky XO. The WFE's I've had have been universally good, but are obviously pricier. The Willett Pot Still was a disappointment.

[dboland]

My experience is limited to WPSR, Rowan's Creek, and Johnny Drum. My bottle of Rowan's Creek is chocolaty and bright, very enjoyable. The WPSR is fine for cocktails and cooking. The Johnny Drum is nothing special and overpriced. I also have a bottle of 2 year cask-strength rye that I have not cracked yet.

I really want to suggest something but my opinion is that their offerings tend to be overpriced and since it is mostly NDP, there is a lot of variation that probably won't be smoothed out for another few years. With that said, I would say Rowan's Creek although you may not be disappointed at the same price buying 2 WT101s or EC12s.

[Golzee]

Thanks for the input everyone. Doesn't sound like I am missing out on anything. I am going to dig through older threads and figure out which I might enjoy.

[Golzee]

There is surprisingly very little info in past threads on KBD products. Most threads I saw were only a few posts deep. Also, I found it surprising that only a couple Willets have been BOTM. Based on the information I found, I think I am going to try Rowans Creek. Has anyone tried recent batches? The thread I saw (which raved about it) was from 2006, a lot has changed in bourbonia since 2006. Also, are most KBD products generally assumed to be Heaven Hill juice still?

[dcbt]

I generally stay away from their stuff because I have no idea what's actually in the bottle.

you and me both....

[flahute]

There is surprisingly very little info in past threads on KBD products. Most threads I saw were only a few posts deep. Also, I found it surprising that only a couple Willets have been BOTM. Based on the information I found, I think I am going to try Rowans Creek. Has anyone tried recent batches? The thread I saw (which raved about it) was from 2006, a lot has changed in bourbonia since 2006. Also, are most KBD products generally assumed to be Heaven Hill juice still?

The reason is that there just isn't universal appreciation for KBD on these pages and in some cases members have resolute feelings against them. Everyone knows their product is sourced (not counting the new distillate of their own that is slowly coming online.) Their are other who source who are well liked but the primary difference is that they tell you what it is and where it comes from. KBD does not. You know it's either from Indiana (for most of the rye) or Kentucky, but that's it. Heaven Hill is widely reported as a source, but they've also gotten product from Beam and others. There was a time when many of their products had an age statement and when sourced stock was generally in great supply. It was more reliable. Nowadays, the sourced product is in very short supply and a lot younger. The major distilleries need their distillate and are no longer selling anything good unless there's a pre-existing contract. So you have a lot of KBD product with no age statement, no idea of the source, and inconsistency from batch to batch. Some are really bad. The older members here who remember the age stated good stuff have long since given up on the KBD brands because for the same price (and even less in some cases) they can get very good reliable whiskey from BT, WT, Four Roses, Beam, etc. No reason to take any more chances.

I personally am a Willett fan, but I too have given up on the KBD brands. I'm rooting for them as they bring more of their own to market. I still buy the occasional WFE bottle because I've never been burned by one of those. They have gotten too pricey though.....

Edited August 7, 2015 by flahute
spelling

[Golzee]

It is clear to me now, thanks flahute. Chances are I will still try a couple of their brands to decide for myself whats what.

[squire]

Also, are most KBD products generally assumed to be Heaven Hill juice still?

Yes, because they were/are. There are reasons for that, HH has always cultivated the bulk market a had the surplus to sell. Of course there were others but HH pretty much owned the market. Twenty years ago I could get 12 year old HH whisky locally under the 1889 Royal label for less than $8.00 a bottle, or the KBD 12 year old Johnny Drum for three times the cost of HH. Same stuff, different label. For me the choice was easy.

[jp_stargazer]

I can't comment on the variability of the KBD offerings, as I'm working on my first bottle of several KBD brands (including Johnny Drum PS, Kentucky Vintage, and Kentucky XO). My bottle of Noah's Mill is good but I believe it is a wheat bourbon, so it is different from the previously mentioned line-up. Corner Creek I believe is a mix of a wheat bourbon and a rye bourbon (not four grain distillate). I find it to be pretty mild and I've offered it to friends who are predominately Scotch drinkers as a gateway to bourbon (but certainly not a shining example of all that is bourbon). I also have some wax-sealed Rowan's Creek in the bunker because the price was good, I had liked the pour I had at a bar, and grabbed several because NDP whiskey can fluctuate in quality from batch to batch. Have not opened any of them yet though. I enjoy all of them, Johnny Drum PS being my favorite.

Just for my own information:

So we know that, until recently, KBD/Willett had not been distilling for decades. But they still have warehouses from previously being an active distillery, correct? And the bulk distillate they would buy would then be barreled (if not already) and aged at the KBD/Willett distillery, correct? I think they functioned as just a bottler for some brands as well?

I am asking because I am pretty sure with many of the products (Kentucky Vintage, XO, and Johnny Drum PS) I can taste that it is Heaven Hill distillate, to the point I would be very surprised if the source was revealed to be something else. But they also taste separate and unique to me, like the DNA is familiar but the profile is different. It makes sense to me that would be due to aging at KBD/Willett.

Thanks for any input.

Jason

[tanstaafl2]

Until the recent revival I don't think Willett had distilled anything since at least the 70's. I doubt anything they sold in recent years was made at Willett to include any of the 20+ yo whiskey they sold/sell. It was all sourced from somewhere else and no doubt a lot of it, but not all, was from HH. The more recent young ryes were/are MGP/LDI distillate until they began releasing their own again. Now they have their own and MGP rye.

[squire]

. . . . So we know that, until recently, KBD/Willett had not been distilling for decades. But they still have warehouses from previously being an active distillery, correct? And the bulk distillate they would buy would then be barreled (if not already) and aged at the KBD/Willett distillery, correct?

It would seem so Jason but those assumptions are not correct. Prior to rebuilding their family distillery KBD was a contract bottler for others and produced some brands of their own from purchased stock that was already aged. The size and nature of their operation wasn't equipped to age stock on premises, nor was there any need to do so because plenty of aged stock was available, so it was basically a buy it and bottle it operation. With Heaven Hill's massive stores of aged whisky sitting next door there was no economic incentive to undergo the tremendous costs (insurance alone) of buying bulk, transporting, storing and aging it themselves.

Heaven Hill was also a customer because KBD (don't know if they still do) bottled all of HH's 50 mil minis because their operation could do that more cost efficiently than HH could.

[jp_stargazer]

Thank you for the information. It does make sense that KBD would buy aged stock that was readily available, which until recently with the boom, it was. I guess it would also make sense that the whiskey that ended up at KBD would have a slightly different profile than our favorites at HH, being sold because it did not match the profile of their own products.

I still wonder how much warehouse capacity KBD/Willett does have, now that they are distilling again.

Jason

[flahute]

I still wonder how much warehouse capacity KBD/Willett does have, now that they are distilling again.

Jason

They have 1 Heaven Hill rackhouse worth according to the guide on my last tour. You always take what guides say with a grain of salt of course, but this one seemed pretty knowledgeable.

[Golzee]

They have 1 Heaven Hill rackhouse worth according to the guide on my last tour. You always take what guides say with a grain of salt of course, but this one seemed pretty knowledgeable.

How big exactly is 1 Heaven Hill rackhouse? Barrel wise?

[Tucker]

What KBD bourbon should I try?

I had a bottle of Pure Kentucky XO recently (purchased early 2015, 2014 production date) that was well worth the $25.99 I paid. I got the sense that it was a Heaven Hill product, and (although NAS) I would happily buy another. Other than that I'm not really up on the KBD products.

[squire]

How big exactly is 1 Heaven Hill rackhouse? Barrel wise?

20,000 barrels though I believe some are larger than that. The warehouses at Willet are much smaller, 5,000 barrel capacity, and I believe they have 8 warehouses on premises though I do not know if all of them are structurally sound enough to be used.

[tanstaafl2]

Newer rickhouses may be as large as 50,000 barrels although as noted in the past the biggest were typically more like 20,000. I think it was on a recent WT tour that it was mentioned they were building some of the larger 50.000 barrel ones. Apparently there is a waiting list to get them built as not just any builder is skilled at it. Doesn't seem that complicated but no doubt there are issues I am unaware of that must be taken into consideration as far as the actual construction goes.