Woodford 1838 White Corn

[B.B. Babington]

this is available now or soon will be. this is made with white corn and then aged? I'm assuming/hoping they don't expect to get hundred bills for white dog.

[Tucker]

this is available now or soon will be. this is made with white corn and then aged? I'm assuming/hoping they don't expect to get hundred bills for white dog.

The Virginia ABC has this listed at $99.99. Pretty sure it's a straight bourbon.

[Harry in WashDC]

A quick BING search turned up several sites (but not the WR site) stating this is the latest Master's Collection release. One can hope it is a straight bourbon made with white corn to be distinguished from silver queen, etc. -- sort of a "does the type of corn have an effect on the final product?" test. Since we don't have anything to compare it to, i.e., no silver queen bourbon, . . .

The lack of definitive information as of right now suggests its release is imminent but not officially announced. I still have 3/4 of their "Old World Double Malt" taking up some shelf space. I wonder if it needs a friend.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Harry in WashDC
typos, of course

[squire]

Well we do (did) have a comparison, historically speaking. Old Taylor was made with white corn though I cannot say when that mash bill was changed. Doubt if it means a darn thing now except for the marketing aspects.

[tanstaafl2]

It occurred to me while reading David Driscoll's recent post about their trip to Kentucky that maybe what is wrong with the 100% Woodford distillate from their pot stills is the fact that they make the whiskey by putting the entire contents of the mash tun into the fermenters and then the entire contents, solids and all, go from the fermenters into the large pot stills (or at least the first one given it is triple distilled?). No scotch is made that way as the solids never get farther than the mash tun with only the liquid wort going into the fermenter. and all liquid wash getting to the initial wash still. I can understand why it is possible with continuous distillation to use the fermented mash, solids and all, as is the case with most bourbon. But leaving all those solids to sit and cook (and overcook or add additional flavor components?) in the pot still might explain why it seems to typically be rather "hinky".

Or not! Certainly not my area of expertise.

Something to ponder anyway.

[squire]

The Woodford beer stills are a redesigned form of Scottish stills modified to allow for the mash solids. I've forgotten the details of how they work but we have some old threads on the subject floating around here somewhere.

[tanstaafl2]

The Woodford beer stills are a redesigned form of Scottish stills modified to allow for the mash solids. I've forgotten the details of how they work but we have some old threads on the subject floating around here somewhere.

Whlie they may allow for solids my question is whether that is a good idea. Having all those solids sitting in the bottom of the still for hours seems like it would result in some impact on the fractions in the final distillate. Could that be why an all Woodford distillate seems to be so different?

Maybe not, just ruminating on a slow Friday!

[BigRich]

Whlie they may allow for solids my question is whether that is a good idea. Having all those solids sitting in the bottom of the still for hours seems like it would result in some impact on the fractions in the final distillate. Could that be why an all Woodford distillate seems to be so different?

Maybe not, just ruminating on a slow Friday!

Stop ruminating and start packing for tomorrow night!

[squire]

My understanding it the solids are kept moving by a recirculation pump then run out the funnel shaped bottom after the alcohol has been stripped while fresh mash is fed in from the top.

[VAGentleman]

A lot of the micro's do grain-in distillation on their pot stills. The pot stills have agitators or recirc pumps like Squire said so it doesn't burn. They think it adds more flavor doing it this way

[smokinjoe]

A lot of the micro's do grain-in distillation on their pot stills...They think it adds more flavor doing it this way

Hmmmm. I think Bruce is on to something, then....

[squire]

Oh, no question. In the days when Scottish stills were direct fired they had to come up with mechanisms such as rumagers (think lengths of chain hanging from a parallel bar) scouring the bottom of the pot to prevent scorching. Go far enough back in the annals of Scottish Malt writers and you'll find some bemoaning the fact modern distillers were losing the caramel effect by changing from direct fire to steam heat.

Considering most of the flavor in Bourbon (60-70%) comes from the new charred oak barrel I question whether I could taste any such subtle differences in a fully aged product but the subject is endlessly fascinating. I believe the small producers using mash in a pot still are doing it for economic reasons though because it's very time consuming and expensive to filter out particles in a corn based mash.

[tanstaafl2]

A lot of the micro's do grain-in distillation on their pot stills. The pot stills have agitators or recirc pumps like Squire said so it doesn't burn. They think it adds more flavor doing it this way

Yes, just a question whether those are good flavors!

[Flyfish]

But can we taste a difference between white and yellow corn in our bourbon? Some of you have palates that are way more sensitive to subtle distinctions. Speak up is this includes you.

All I know is that TN Grandma made white corn bread ("Yellow is for hogs and chickens.") OH Grandma ("The heathen, bless her heart!") made yellow corn bread. Yellow was sweeter but that might be because OH Grandma's recipe included a little wheat flour and sugar. Seems to me it is time for another BT experiment on a variable in bourbon making.

[squire]

I believe I can taste the presence of rye grain (or absence thereof) in Bourbon but highly doubt I could ever tell the color of the corn.

[Flyfish]

I believe I can taste the presence of rye grain (or absence thereof) in Bourbon but highly doubt I could ever tell the color of the corn.

[flahute]

Ashamed of you, Squire. I thought that, like James Bond, you could tell not only the color but the field it was grown in.

Well he can tell you who distilled it and what year they distilled it so there's that.

[Paddy]

Ashamed of you, Squire. I thought that, like James Bond, you could tell not only the color but the field it was grown in.

Don't let his modesty fool you, he's got it honed in all the way down to what side of the cob the kernel is from! :grin:

[mibourbonguy]

Has anyone tried the Woodford Reserve Master’s Collection 1838 Style White Corn Bourbon? looking for something to splurge on, their previous releases look like they have been favorable so thoughts?

[squire]

According to the ODGs (OldDeadGuys) white corn has a lower oil content than yellow which made it a bit less messy to mash and distill.

[Hop]

Tried it and labeled it a PASS. Like many of the Distillers Select from WR

Has anyone tried the Woodford Reserve Master’s Collection 1838 Style White Corn Bourbon? looking for something to splurge on, their previous releases look like they have been favorable so thoughts?

[taddraughn]

Tried it and labeled it a PASS. Like many of the Distillers Select from WR

"Pass" seems to be the general sentiment for these yearly WR releases. I haven't tried any of them, but I haven't seen any reviews that would make me want to either.

[B.B. Babington]

for those that like stronger flavor (aka bitter), the seasoned oak was well received, and it spawned current double oak. I liked four wood. I found maple finish very interesting, but I'm one of a small minority that will drink it.

The sweet mash was interesting, quite a few liked it.

[chasking]

Re the effect of the variety of corn, I have not tried the Woodford white corn and for $99 I don't expect I will, but, I have a bottle of bourbon from a small operation in Wisconsin that is made with a rare heirloom red corn, and it definitely has a unique taste compared to other bourbons.  There may of course be other reasons for that, but I can easily believe that the corn variety is a big part of it.