Newbies and the Top Tier

[b1gcountry]

I have a young friend at work. Decent guy, but with a much richer upbringing. He likes "the best" in his hobbies. He drinks whiskey rarely, but only drinks the top tier stuff. Older Balvenie, pappy, blanton's etc. He isn't super picky with beer, so if the top tier isn't there, he will order a decent beer.

I don't want to bash him. I do want to all your opinion on whether you can appreciate the top tier stuff any more than the middle tier stuff unless you actually drink the middle tier stiff? If you never drink a 4RSB, can you appreciate a 4RLE or a nice private selection SB? Does WLW make sense of you haven't tried the other Weller offerings? Do you need the baseline to understand what makes the LE special?

 

[VAGentleman]

In my opinion of course you can enjoy the LE's without having had the low-mid tiers.  Your friend is missing out for sure not having had a lot of good bourbon.  But you can definitely enjoy a perfectly done filet mignon without ever having had a hamburger.  Good is good.

[smokinjoe]

13 minutes ago, VAGentleman said:

In my opinion of course you can enjoy the LE's without having had the low-mid tiers.  Your friend is missing out for sure not having had a lot of good bourbon.  But you can definitely enjoy a perfectly done filet mignon without ever having had a hamburger.  Good is good.

Spot on perfect response.  No more discussion needed.

[alink50]

17 minutes ago, VAGentleman said:

In my opinion of course you can enjoy the LE's without having had the low-mid tiers.  Your friend is missing out for sure not having had a lot of good bourbon.  But you can definitely enjoy a perfectly done filet mignon without ever having had a hamburger.  Good is good.

Well said VAGentleman!

As a relative newbie myself, I have had a fair amount of the cheaper stuff and mid tier stuff. I am fortunate enough to have a great GF who took me to Delilah's (Chicago) last night for my first taste of Van Winkle and Stagg. I can tell you this, that while I can appreciate how smooth the VW Rye was that I have had several other that I can really appreciate, and more importantly afford. Rittenhouse, Templeton, High West, Smooth Ambler, Whistle Pig, etc., there are some great whiskies out there and while price sometimes comes into play, it is not the be-all-end-all of what makes something great or special.

Why don't you just smirk while you sip on your EC 12, knowing that what you are drinking is a very, very good Bourbon for 1/10 the price of a pour, that's what I would do.

[taddraughn]

1 hour ago, VAGentleman said:

In my opinion of course you can enjoy the LE's without having had the low-mid tiers.  Your friend is missing out for sure not having had a lot of good bourbon.  But you can definitely enjoy a perfectly done filet mignon without ever having had a hamburger.  Good is good.

I agree with you to an extent. I feel like steak is a little different than whiskey. We might need to find a lifelong vegetarian to see if they can appreciate that filet (just kidding). Anyway, being relatively new to bourbon, especially compared to you guys, I feel like developing your palate, or ability to identify what you're tasting takes a long time. I struggle with this sometimes, and I've even been hesitant to open more expensive bottles because of this. If I had a GTS right now, I'm not 100% sure that I could be enjoying it to it's fullest extent just yet. Enjoy it, yeah, but would I really be able to pick apart all the flavors I'm experiencing...

 

 

[R-Savage]

Buy a bottle of Evan Williams Black, put it in a crystal decanter. Then have a drink with him. Then after he raves about it. Show him the bottle.

 

[jvd99]

1 hour ago, taddraughn said:

I agree with you to an extent. I feel like steak is a little different than whiskey. We might need to find a lifelong vegetarian to see if they can appreciate that filet (just kidding). Anyway, being relatively new to bourbon, especially compared to you guys, I feel like developing your palate, or ability to identify what you're tasting takes a long time. I struggle with this sometimes, and I've even been hesitant to open more expensive bottles because of this. If I had a GTS right now, I'm not 100% sure that I could be enjoying it to it's fullest extent just yet. Enjoy it, yeah, but would I really be able to pick apart all the flavors I'm experiencing...

 

 

I took this approach a few years ago and after amassing a deep bunker of LE's, I'm now just beginning to open them on a regular basis because I feel that I've progressed through tasting just about everything out there and my LEs will be enjoyed with a more developed palate and in context of other bottles across the entire spectrum.  

[b1gcountry]

I know you can enjoy the best stuff no matter what. I'm just curious on everyone's opinion if you enjoy them more fully once you have developed your palate like jvd99 and a couple others mentioned.

As to my friend, he really isn't a jerck about it, his dad just has plenty of expensive whiskey that I can't compete with (and he lives very far away.)

 

[bullitt]

1 hour ago, jvd99 said:

 

Don't sell yourself short tadraughn. I say go for the gusto and try as many different bourbons across the board as possible. You won't like everything regardless of the price and you'll know what you do like. Your tastes will shift from time to time and develop along the way. I've never regretted trying anything. Also try and learn to appreciate other spirits. I recently enjoyed the hell out of a Bacanora. Who'd a thought? Expand your spirits horizons any time you can.

[smokinjoe]

You know, I'm not sure what "developing your palate" means, really.  Other, than just sitting, sipping, and thinking.  There, if you do that, you're good to go.  

But, there's nothing wrong with not thinking, either.

 

[b1gcountry]

Well, to me the first part of developing my palate meant getting to the point I could taste anything other than the alcohol. Then being able to identify different flavors, and being able to tell different whiskies apart

[taddraughn]

12 minutes ago, smokinjoe said:

You know, I'm not sure what "developing your palate" means, really.  Other, than just sitting, sipping, and thinking.  There, if you do that, you're good to go.  

But, there's nothing wrong with not thinking, either.

 

I really just meant getting to the point where I can express in words (or in my tasting notes) the more minute flavors I'm experiencing. 

[GAbiker]

You can appreciate the top tier without having had the bottom shelf and mid shelf bourbons.

When I got back to KY after years away in the service (with only Jim Beam available at the class 6 store), I immediately picked up where I left off, drinking Old Fitzgerald, or, when I had a couple of extra bucks, very Old Fitzgerald.  They weren't considered "Top Tier" then.  Now...the old Stizle Weller juice is selling like the nectar of the gods.   So I guess it all comes down to what you consider "Top Tier".   Sometimes its not all about the price tag on the bottle.

[The Black Tot]

I ended up loving a lot of things I didn't like when I started drinking whiskey. I also learned to be creative in my approach to drinking it - that extracting the maximum experience from a glass of whiskey takes knowing how to approach it several different ways, and find the right horse for the course, so to speak.

The great stuff would have been wasted on me early on. Now when it comes to the good stuff, it's just me that gets wasted.

[chasking]

Anybody who will only drink "the best" and uses that phrase to mean only high-dollar top-shelf and LE whiskeys is drinking whiskey for a different reason than because they like whiskey.  They're drinking it for the secondary effect of feeling good about themselves.  Anybody who actually cares about whiskey at all and does any research at all into it will quickly come across the ideas that (a) LEs may be different but that doesn't make them "better" than any number of more readily available pours, and (b) there are excellent whiskeys on the middle and even bottom shelves, which may again be different from the top shelf/LEs, but that doesn't make them worse.  People who like and care about whiskey as something to drink and enjoy usually embrace this phenomenon to find some nice cheap (or at least readily available) whiskeys that they like, and I don't know of anybody who likes whiskey who couldn't do that.

I refuse to believe that there are people out there who are unable to enjoy certain cheaper whiskeys---I don't believe there exists a person who affirmatively enjoys drinking whiskey for its own sake but the only one he can enjoy just happen to be megadollar unicorns.  I believe that a person who is unwilling to entertain the thought of enjoying at least some of the usual suspects is not into whiskey for the whiskey.

Related to that, based on my own experiences and observations, I would be disinclined to believe anybody who told me what their favorite whiskeys were unless that person had actually picked them as favorites in a blind tasting.  I think most people don't even know what they really like when their judgment is not clouded by labels and price tags.

As noted, it's entirely possible to enjoy unicorn LEs without being conversant with everything in the lower tiers of the market.  Many are objectively great whiskeys.  Where somebody who only drinks LEs will be missing out is that if you are unwilling to pollute your body with more prosaic whiskey, you will get a skewed view of what whiskey is.  LEs tend to have different characteristics than more run-of-the-mill stuff---they're usually older, at least.  That results in a big difference between those and other whiskeys. 

This may be slightly OT, but, this topic brought to mind a recent tasting I did.  I had some friends over and we did a vertical of Buffalo Trace #1 bourbons:  BT#1 white dog, regular BT, ER10, and ER17, which was fascinating because that was all the same stuff when it came off the still.  It's a great way to really understand the effects of aging, but, it also illustrates very vividly what a younger whiskey can bring to the table compared to an older version of the same stuff.  And having just gone through that, I cannot say at all that the older ERs are "better" than the BT.  Different, yes, and which one I'd prefer could change based on mood, but I think the BT holds its own.  Also, that experience vividly frames the question, is that ER17 worth 20 times the price of the BT?

[GaryT]

Can you enjoy a top tier product without having worked your way through everything else?  Why no.  It sounds like he is the type that wouldn't appreciate it "more" for having tasted through the gambit - and as long as he knows what he likes, more power to him.