Underrated Bourbons

[tanstaafl2]

2 hours ago, squire said:

Actually they don't make a damn thing.  A complement to Jeffersons is really a complement to who they bought it from.  HH is a good a candidate as any because they've been in the bulk sales business for over half a century.

While Jefferson does not distill any bourbon they do say they blend bourbon for the Jefferson and Jefferson Reserve line, something they have done for a long time as I understand it. It is quite possible these are sourced from different distillers (although we don't know because they won't say, which remains a mark against them for me). Back when they had access to better whiskey to work with I thought some of their bottling's were pretty good so they did make (in a sense anyway) some interesting bourbon that would not be available otherwise.

This was at least a little better than the many companies that simply take a young MGP or HH bourbon, slap their own label on it after doing little more than diluting it down with additional and unnecessary water and then trying to claim it as their own special 100 year old family recipe or some such nonsense.

I do confess to being a bit underwhelmed with more recent bottling's from Jefferson and have mostly stopped buying the brand as a result. Like most NDP's they just can't get much in the way of quality or at least interesting whiskey to work with I suppose.

[ThirstyinOhio]

HH BIB 6yr and WT Rare Breed would be the two under rated bourbons for me.  I go through more Rare Breed than any other whiskey.

[b1gcountry]

High west and smooth ambler do the same thing as Jefferson's and they both get high marks here.

[tanstaafl2]

1 hour ago, b1gcountry said:

High west and smooth ambler do the same thing as Jefferson's and they both get high marks here.

Not entirely true. Both HW and SA are upfront about what they are sourcing whereas Jefferson provides little or no information about the whiskey they source except when it might be a means to improve the perception of value for their whiskey with the public. Such was the case of the Jefferson Presidential Select line which was proudly proclaimed to be 17 and 18yo wheated bourbon "aged in Stitzel-Weller barrels". Seems disingenuous as best to reveal your source when, and only when, it might serve to improve your marketability. And there is still some question as to what the hell that meant exactly. Was it really S-W made wheated bourbon? Was it just wheated bourbon that was aged in S-W warehouses. What exactly does "aged in Stitzel-Weller barrels" really mean? Diageo later further muddied the water as noted in the blog linked below.

And then Trey Zoeller had what I think was the audacity to blend in a rye based bourbon to at least some of the JPS 18yo wheated bourbon without bothering to tell anybody presumably so as to not reduce the desirability of the "Stitzel-Weller" cache the bourbon he was selling had so he presumably could stretch it out and continue to sell these bottles at a premium. Only later did he indicate that was the case and yet the bottles continued to be labeled and sold as exclusively wheated bourbon.

http://redwhiteandbourbon.com/2013/03/24/review-jeffersons-presidential-select-18-year-stitzel-weller/

This stills seems to be the epitomy of hypocrisy to me by an NDP and one of the main reasons I don't give Jefferson's regular consideration any more.

Or maybe I am just too sensitive...

[fishnbowljoe]

1 hour ago, b1gcountry said:

High west and smooth ambler do the same thing as Jefferson's and they both get high marks here.

High West and Smooth Ambler are both pretty transparent about what they do. They don't try and hide things, or make up stories about their whiskies like some NDP's do. 

[b1gcountry]

This is all sort of my point. The whiskey itself is passed up or under appreciated for PR reasons related to the bottler. Not because of how the actual Whiskey tastes

[Louisiana]

19 minutes ago, b1gcountry said:

This is all sort of my point. The whiskey itself is passed up or under appreciated for PR reasons related to the bottler. Not because of how the actual Whiskey tastes

I know the title says bourbon, but I recently bought some CS WP Rye that will rival anything out there.

Their PR really sucks and they get no love from this community. I agree that they need to be more forthcoming.

That being said, Great Whiskey is Great Whiskey no matter where it comes from IMO.

 

Back to the subject.

I think OWA is very underrated. I got some ORVW10 this year and actually prefer the OWA more.

The stuff is really good and @ 23 a bottle is an absolute steal. 

 

 

 

 

[b1gcountry]

I would have to find a bottle of OWA before I could under value it!

[Louisiana]

Sorry about that. I meant with all the Weller and Van Winkle madness going on its still a great value!

[UGARedDawg]

Like someone else said, OGDBIB. Very underrated given its price and place on the shelves versus the flavor to be enjoyed. 

[Hop]

Old Ezra 101 is the one for me

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[Paddy]

I started to mention Baker's earlier, but recalled the short lived love-fest we had with it last year.  I think the only issue we have with Baker's is that it's just to damn easy to pass, as we have 9 yr old KC at 100p and KCSB at 120p (and poor Baker's gets stuck in the middle)! 

Edit: Bruce, great post (and link), you are spot on brother!  

 

Edited January 8, 2016 by Paddy

[T Comp]

5 hours ago, b1gcountry said:

This is all sort of my point. The whiskey itself is passed up or under appreciated for PR reasons related to the bottler. Not because of how the actual Whiskey tastes

 

5 hours ago, Louisiana said:

 

That being said, Great Whiskey is Great Whiskey no matter where it comes from IMO

 

Actually, if there has been any consensus of  SBers in its 16 year history it is opposite of the belief that a whiskey (and its producer or bottler) should only be valued on the whiskey. 

What, how, where and who are crucially important to greatness of a whiskey. 

 

 

[flahute]

5 hours ago, b1gcountry said:

This is all sort of my point. The whiskey itself is passed up or under appreciated for PR reasons related to the bottler. Not because of how the actual Whiskey tastes

The difficulty I have in agreeing with you is that the producers of the kind of whiskey you are referring to tend to have a hard time maintaining consistency in their product precisely because they don't make it. In a different time when there was plenty of good aged whiskey available for sale this might not have been an issue, but in our current time the wells are dry and there's no guarantee that the next batch will taste like the one you are drinking now.

[flahute]

11 hours ago, smokinjoe said:

Sometimes Steve, I think we're brothers separated at birth.  I picked the 46, because I was drinking it at the time and facilitated the thoughts that led me to start this thread.  But, when I mentioned that there were a handful of other bourbons I thought were underrated, Baker's was at the top of that list!  For some reason, I underrate it, though I really enjoy it when I drink it.  I see it at the whiskey mongers store every time I'm in there, and I want to get it, but just don't pull the trigger.  I'm not sure I've seen it on anyone's Top List, but a nicely aged, delicious, fairly priced, 107 proofer seems worthy of more appreciation from us.   

 

2 hours ago, Paddy said:

I started to mention Baker's earlier, but recalled the short lived love-fest we had with it last year.  I think the only issue we have with Baker's is that it's just to damn easy to pass, as we have 9 yr old KC at 100p and KCSB at 120p (and poor Baker's gets stuck in the middle)! 

Edit: Bruce, great post (and link), you are spot on brother!  

 

I've been trying to figure out why we don't appreciate it more and Paddy answered very similarly to where I was going. I was thinking more that Baker's is priced very close to Booker's, (depending on your market) which it makes it easy to reach for the Booker's instead. The other reason is that Baker's is always there so I find myself saying "Oh, I'll get it next time because today I'm going to try this new whiskey/store select/private barrel that just came in because it might not be here next time". In a way, it's ubiquitousness works against it. After the short lived love fest that Paddy mentioned, I kept enjoying it for a while and then forgot about it until Thanksgiving when I thought to myself, dang, why do I not drink this more often? While I do love both of the Knob Creek expressions, I find Baker's to be different enough to warrant more love.

[Louisiana]

8 hours ago, T Comp said:

 

Actually, if there has been any consensus of  SBers in its 16 year history it is opposite of the belief that a whiskey (and its producer or bottler) should only be valued on the whiskey. 

What, how, where and who are crucially important to greatness of a whiskey. 

 

 

Sure. I agree that it would always be nice to know all that. Unfortunately we don't always have that luxury.

[tanstaafl2]

16 hours ago, b1gcountry said:

This is all sort of my point. The whiskey itself is passed up or under appreciated for PR reasons related to the bottler. Not because of how the actual Whiskey tastes

 

10 hours ago, flahute said:

The difficulty I have in agreeing with you is that the producers of the kind of whiskey you are referring to tend to have a hard time maintaining consistency in their product precisely because they don't make it. In a different time when there was plenty of good aged whiskey available for sale this might not have been an issue, but in our current time the wells are dry and there's no guarantee that the next batch will taste like the one you are drinking now.

 

To your point and also partly a result of what Steve notes with regard to Jefferson (and some other NDP's) I have found several recent Jefferson bottling's to be particularly uninspiring especially when you add the cost into consideration. The Chef's Collaboration and the last couple of Ocean editions were not particularly noteworthy (and the Ocean now costs in the $60-80 range. The regular Jefferson has been rather unremarkable for some time although it is not very pricey. But there are better bourbon's than it for the same or less (generally true of most craft and at least some NDP whiskey to be sure). Add in the less than forthright business model (in my perhaps less than humble opinion!) and it all impacts what I choose to buy.

So inconsistent and generally unremarkable whiskey from a generally unknown source or sources at a generally premium price plus lack of confidence in the validity of the story provided by the NDP adds up to a product I am not willing to make a regular part of my current bourbon inventory (this from someone that early on bought a number of bottles from Jefferson).

With time what you choose to seek out and pay for is likely to change. Just like one's palate we all are likely to be a little different.

For me Jefferson is not under appreciated. It is appropriately appreciated. YMMV!

Edited January 8, 2016 by tanstaafl2

[kcgumbohead]

I will cast a vote for Fighting Cock. 2 different pours IMO in a single bottle, the neat version is too hot and what I would expect for 14 bucks. A bit of water and the whole story changes more so with FC than anything else I have tried. Chocolate notes emerge along with caramel and nuts, the heat falls into balance with the other flavors and leads to a lasting warming finish... I like it a lot but only after the addition of some H2o.  

[s8ist]

Charter 101

Highly underrated.

[ken_mays]

56 minutes ago, s8ist said:

Charter 101

Highly underrated.

I had a pour of that last night.  It's an excellent value when I can find it, which is a whole lot less often than I'd like.   Out of the 20 or 30 stores in my area, I think I've only seen it in maybe 2 or 3 stores at most. 

[Special Reserve]

CEHT Barrel Strength is underrated.  I find it absolutely great over crushed  ice.

[Jazz Nut]

I totally agree with Maker's 46.  I've bought one bottle, finished over a year or so, and have NO idea if it was good or not.  I need to get another bottle.  It's available everywhere, and I am sick of hunting for Weller 12.  Another nomination is Wild Turkey 101, it's good for what it is.  Again WIDELY available.

Weller Special Reserve was mentioned again, and I agree.  It's cheap, fairly tasty, and averrable.

I'll try to think of something no one has mentioned yet, but Maker's 46 is hardly mentioned on this forum.

[Louisiana]

49 minutes ago, Special Reserve said:

CEHT Barrel Strength is underrated.  I find it absolutely great over crushed  ice.

I agree. I'm well stocked on these!

[LCWoody]

I have 2, as Steve and Joe have mentioned Bakers 7y is #1. Every time I'm out in a restaurant or bar (if it's available) it's the first thing I ask for, and always think it's great. And yet I haven't had one open in my house in quite some time. 2nd is not a bourbon, it's CEHT Rye. I love this rye, and think it's going to be missed (if or when) it's gone. 

[koRn]

I'm giving Bakers a third vote. I always keep a bottle on the bar. And at a mid 30's price point here in Wisconsin. I think it's the best bourbon at the latest price. Always tasty, and always there on the shelf. Which is good. Since lately someone in the area has been clearing the shelves of Booker's. Probably got all excited at the dark box and specialty batch labels.  sigh.