Underrated Bourbons

[starhopper]

17 minutes ago, TunnelTiger said:

You are fortunate to have such a great price.  Locally I can buy all I want at  $59-69  a bottle for over a year now so I overlook it fairly easily.

It's puzzling why it's so expensive in NW Georgia - here in Middle GA, around the Macon and Warner Robins area, the HMcKBiB is $29 - $34 - depending on where you look

Edited January 12, 2016 by starhopper

[Spade]

2 hours ago, starhopper said:

It's puzzling why it's so expensive in NW Georgia - here in Middle GA, around the Macon and Warner Robins area, the HMcKBiB is $29 - $34 - depending on where you look

That is strange, I don't think I've ever paid more than $30 in Atlanta.

[Swoboda]

On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2016‎ ‎10‎:‎16‎:‎11‎, PaulO said:

I hope I'm not sorry for saying this (in case it suddenly vanishes or gets a price hike).  Henry McKenna bonded is: 100 proof, a full 10 years old, single barrel, and under $30 near me.  It's really hard to beat.  I think of it as a much better version of EWSB, or EC 12 with the oak dryness a bit less prevalent.   

Totally agree with this . . . the first one we bought was a private selection that was a spice bomb we liked a lot.  Other (non PS) bottles measured up well . . . all purchased for $27.99 or less.  Still available at one chain for this price . . . might just load up.

Edited January 13, 2016 by Swoboda

[WhiskyRI]

As others have mentioned I'm a fan of OW Special Reserve and HMBiB - I find both excellent bourbons. I also love OWA but that's not exactly under rated. It is interesting to see what we here overlook (for whatever reason) and what is overlooked by the general public. OGDBiB is one that is loved here but only has middling reception in the general public - aside from old fogies. Another brand I like that isn't widely distributed is David Nicholson 1843 Bonded. Good stuff and quite quaffable and very cheap - I make sure to acquire some whenever I visit Missouri.

[b1gcountry]

I always see the 1843 on the shelves, but have never picked one up

[Golzee]

28 minutes ago, b1gcountry said:

I always see the 1843 on the shelves, but have never picked one up

I had a bottle recently that I enjoyed.  The new labels have landed, and, I think that it has lost its' BIB designation.

[b1gcountry]

Hmmm.if I see a bib maybe I will pick it up

[shoshani]

On 1/9/2016, 1:47:42, Xevious said:

My vote goes to Old Forester Signature. I've never tried the old BIB, but this one is just delicious to me. Liquid caramel in a bottle. I even enjoy the 86 proof version. They aren't overly complex, just affordable and damm good.

I think the current Signature is very close to the old BIB. And I drank a *lot* of the old BIB in my day! Brown-Forman seems very protective of its flavor profiles, which is never a bad thing. 

[thornsbreak]

I have so many to add to this topic, bottles that get don't much attention on this forum.  Though I'm going to cheat a little bit and mention a few non-bourbon spirits that I think anyone who loves a good value in bourbon MUST try.

But let's start with the legal answers:

For bourbon, I completely agree with the couple guys that have mentioned Four Roses Yellow Label.  Its proof, I think, gains it little respect here.  But it has bowled me over in blind tastings.  What makes it incredible is its subtlety and understated nuance.  I'm a huge fan of all Four Roses products, but even I forget how intriguing, charming, and sophisticated this whiskey is.  Whenever I buy a bottle, it disappears ridiculously quickly.  I just can't get enough of the delicate cinnamon/cumin spice dusting, the mellow mentos vanilla/mint finish, or the duck/rabbit  red/green fruitiness that it warps back and forth between owing to its high rye content.  I think this completely rivals the sophistication, poise, and elegance of Basil Hayden's for 1/3 of the price.  And this is amazing with a nice cigar - smooth and soothing vanilla works perfectly with figgy tobacco.  When I can get this for under $30 a handle, I sometimes wonder why I bother to buy any other whiskey at all.  But don't tell anyone.  Four Roses' high-end stuff has definitely been noticed, and I wouldn't want this to head that direction.  Grazing their bottom shelf is like getting the untouched leftovers for free at a high end restaurant.  I'm not ashamed.

My as-yet unmentioned submission in this conversation (which I think very well underscores its appropriate addition to the list) is Rock Hill Farms.  Lost in a sea of highly-sought after Buffalo Trace products, with distribution that makes it difficult to find, and definitely mis-priced in some markets, nevertheless, this is the Buffalo Trace profile in the perfect constellation of age and proof.  Would I buy it for $60?  Not very often.  Value is the main problem here.  But pour it in my glass, and I'm in 7th heaven (love that tangy fruity dried apricot/grape and powdered sugar BT profile).  I picked up 2 bottles at the liquor store I used to work at for $39.99 each.  At that price, it's one of the best out there.  But I can understand why most of us might pass this one up... NAS at a pretty penny with so many other truly great bourbons in the price range.  Nevertheless, a truly fantastic bourbon.  And on that note, time for a pour, which I have neglected in my own collection for months, proving my own point even to myself   This one is all about the balance, not the tackle-you WOW factor.  Though if we wanna talk bang-for-your buck, Eagle Rare 10 year is probably the best in the sophisticated/suave/balance category, and unfortunately, one of the last few affordable well-aged bourbons on the market that you might actually see in a store somewhere.  I've never thought that one quite gets the love it deserves here, either, though I've posted about that elsewhere, and it does come up far more often than RHF.

And now for the ILLEGAL BUT RELEVANT answers that deserve more love from this community, whether they are technically allowed on this particular sub-forum or not:

Mellow Corn - While this has recently become the whiskey equivalent of PBR among the hipster folk, much like PBR, this actually deserves its slighly ironic appreciation, as a cheap bottom shelf brand that packs some pretty satisfying flavor (not to mention the hideous packaging that adds its own nostalgic charm.  This bottle is still what OGDBIB used to be-- one of the endearingly WORST graphic decisions ever made)  Except this is WAY better than PBR.  Where PBR is just the best of the junk beers, this is actually a very rare species of American whiskey: straight corn whiskey, bottled-in-bond, no less, for dirt cheap.  It has a lighter and more delicate flavor, owing to being aged in 2nd use barrels, and I would easily admit that so many other whiskeys are so much greater than this, and yet for some reason, when I get home from work, this is one of the first bottles that calls my name, and it seems to disappear at a much faster rate than it rationally should when I have so many other crazy good bottles around the house.  Something about the fact that it tastes so good and satisfies so easily, while costing so little, makes me reach for it first before admittedly "better" whiskeys.  P.S. - it melds seamlessly with a well-done light lager or cream ale chaser (though I recommend craft brands).  A very satisfying dive combo.  Sip the whiskey, then sip the beer. Amen.

Old Overholt Rye - the dumpy old junker/well whiskey of the bottom shelf that kept rye alive through the dark ages, this bottle is loved by a few in the know here, but generally passed over by almost EVERYONE both in the general population and on this board.  Which is totally understandable, given the affordable greatness of Rittenhouse, the darling of this board, the cocktail movement, and just about anyone with a whisk(e)y blog since 2009.  And admittedly, Overholt isn't for everyone as a neat pour, where its peanut-and-eucalyptus laden rough edges make it something of an acquired-taste bottom shelfer for those in the know.  But let me share a secret with you.  This $15 bottle is a mandatory addition to your cocktail repertoire that outperforms almost every other rye for complexity and satisfaction in a mixed drink.  It delivers an unmistakable dry, nutty, spicy, complex sophistication when you dose it in a classic cocktail, with a lot more burly character and interest than Rittenhouse, WT101Rye, Bulleit Rye, Dickel Rye, or any of the other Brooklyn speakeasy hipster darlings - all of which smooth out and disappear in the background despite being higher proof than this guy.  If you like a good manhattan, you positively owe it to yourself to take a very tiny, affordable risk and mix up a classic 2:1 ratio of this rye and Dolin sweet vermouth (even try it first without bitters, then add 1-2 dashes Angostura if you like).  My wife and I came up with this recipe by sheer accident/luck/providence on our very first try at making a manhattan, and to this day nothing has beat it in our opinion (including more expensive vermouth options! try Dolin!), nor have very many cocktails of any breed rivaled its satisfying sophistication.  Please try this.  It's also great in any number of other classic (underrated) cocktails: Old Pal, Boulevardier, Scofflaw (though please make your own grenadine with actual pomegranate juice, if you are going to try this one), Suburban, etc.  If a cocktail recipe calls for a whiskey, Overholt is the first one we try.  Rough on its own + cheap + amazing mixed = perfect cocktail spirit.  Just be sure that you go gentle on shaking or stirring this, as it is only 80 proof, and I find most people and bartenders water down their drinks too much with ice.  About 15-20 stirs is spot on with this guy, and then strain into a glass with no ice.  This is what cocktails should taste like.

A quick nod in Scotch to the last great affordable and well aged Scotch remaining on the market: Glenmorangie 10.  This one falls in that subtle/balanced/sophisticated camp with FRYL and ER10, and is still available for $30-something, making it a bottle to consider buying with your bourbon cash. (The only other very affordable Scotch bottles worth trying with your bourbon money: McClelland's Highland (about $20 and more smokey), Speyburn 10 year ($25 and more floral), Old Pulteney 12 ($40 and very saline), Laphroaig ($40 on sale and crazy smoky/rubbery, definitely not for everyone))  Aged exclusively in ex-bourbon barrels, which gives it a soft note of vanilla, and makes it perhaps the most approachable Scotch for bourbon drinkers (endlessly debatable).  What really strikes me in this one is the tingly zesty grapefruit bitter finish, which perfectly complements the saltwater taffy and honey profile of a clean Speyside/Highland malt with almost no smoke.  It's a little bit like a crisp and perfectly balanced IPA in distilled form: very noble dance of calm and collected but charming malt flavors with a drying citrusy finish.  Lots of flavor, deeply satisfying, incredible harmony.  Though you do have to visit this one first before any excursions into bourbon territory, owing to its greater delicacy and dryness.

And the number one obscure and very-much-not-bourbon-but-should-be-loved-by-all-bourbon-drinkers spirit is: 

Laird's Bottled in Bond/100 Proof Apple Brandy.  Now, this has evidently been discovered by trendy bartender cocktail types, because it has recently lost its BiB designation owing to unforeseen demand, as a thread in the non-whiskey alcohol forum on this site discusses.  But laying that aside, as an American spirits enthusiast and lover of the bourbony flavors created by aging in charred white oak, every self-respecting bourbon enthusiast owes it to himself to try this incredible living fossil of American distilling tradition.  The reasons are legion: 1) this is the oldest surviving, continually operating distillery ON THIS CONTINENT. 2) this is the only example of a Bottled in Bond brandy IN THE WORLD, which shows the strong influence of bourbon culture on this product (sadly, demand has required that they mix vintages this year, but you may still be able to find the BiB version in the wild, and they fully intend to catch up with demand and bring it back, and the current 100 proof version should be pretty close in flavor profile anyway)  3) this is the only apple brandy I'm aware of that is aged in charred white american oak, though there are probably a couple small regional craft producers out there, and 4) it simply tastes delicious on its own and makes great cocktails.  My wife and I recently did a few blind tasting sessions of French calvados and American apple brandies (sorry, that sentence can't help but sound ridiculously pretentious).  We love Calvados like crazy - probably the most underappreciated spirit in the whole world, PERIOD.  But Laird's BiB stood out as absolutely fascinating in a crowd of Frenchie brandy.  Because the American oak influence is HUGE: this stuff smells like apples and toasted marshmallows.  It has all the flavors you love about bourbon, but it has the unique twist of a distinct fruity apple flavor, and that makes it a really fascinating adventure for the bourbon drinker who has tried just about everything out there: it's comfortably familiar, but enticingly different.  This drinks a lot like a Heaven Hill produced BiB - a little rough around the edges, but full of satisfying flavor, and a complete steal for those in the know who won't turn up their noses at it.  And it makes AMAZING classic cocktails.  Try a jack rose with this.  Sub it in for whiskey in a cocktail of your choice.  It really stands up to mixing at 100 proof.  $20 = can't lose. And it gets bonus points for joining the ranks of the old-school ugly club: this bottle is as outdated, uncool, and stupid looking as Mellow Corn, OGDBiB, JTS Brown, or virtually any other American whiskey that just hasn't been that popular since the 30s/40s.  

OK, I guess I should have started my own blog and posted this there.  Please pardon the book-length essay.  I just think anyone who is reading this thread and hasn't tried these hidden gems is in for a real treat, and I couldn't hide my enthusiasm for some of the best values in spirits (excepting RHF) despite the risk of attracting attention to them and driving up the price!

Edited February 21, 2016 by thornsbreak

[b1gcountry]

Nicely done. I'm looking for a couple bottles now. ..

[BigPapa]

10 hours ago, thornsbreak said:

I have so many to add to this topic, bottles that get don't much attention on this forum.  Though I'm going to cheat a little bit and mention a few non-bourbon spirits that I think anyone who loves a good value in bourbon MUST try.

But let's start with the legal answers:

For bourbon, I completely agree with the couple guys that have mentioned Four Roses Yellow Label.  Its proof, I think, gains it little respect here.  But it has bowled me over in blind tastings.  What makes it incredible is its subtlety and understated nuance.  I'm a huge fan of all Four Roses products, but even I forget how intriguing, charming, and sophisticated this whiskey is.  Whenever I buy a bottle, it disappears ridiculously quickly.  I just can't get enough of the delicate cinnamon/cumin spice dusting, the mellow mentos vanilla/mint finish, or the duck/rabbit  red/green fruitiness that it warps back and forth between owing to its high rye content.  I think this completely rivals the sophistication, poise, and elegance of Basil Hayden's for 1/3 of the price.  And this is amazing with a nice cigar - smooth and soothing vanilla works perfectly with figgy tobacco.  When I can get this for under $30 a handle, I sometimes wonder why I bother to buy any other whiskey at all.  But don't tell anyone.  Four Roses' high-end stuff has definitely been noticed, and I wouldn't want this to head that direction.  Grazing their bottom shelf is like getting the untouched leftovers for free at a high end restaurant.  I'm not ashamed.

My as-yet unmentioned submission in this conversation (which I think very well underscores its appropriate addition to the list) is Rock Hill Farms.  Lost in a sea of highly-sought after Buffalo Trace products, with distribution that makes it difficult to find, and definitely mis-priced in some markets, nevertheless, this is the Buffalo Trace profile in the perfect constellation of age and proof.  Would I buy it for $60?  Not very often.  Value is the main problem here.  But pour it in my glass, and I'm in 7th heaven (love that tangy fruity dried apricot/grape and powdered sugar BT profile).  I picked up 2 bottles at the liquor store I used to work at for $39.99 each.  At that price, it's one of the best out there.  But I can understand why most of us might pass this one up... NAS at a pretty penny with so many other truly great bourbons in the price range.  Nevertheless, a truly fantastic bourbon.  And on that note, time for a pour, which I have neglected in my own collection for months, proving my own point even to myself   This one is all about the balance, not the tackle-you WOW factor.  Though if we wanna talk bang-for-your buck, Eagle Rare 10 year is probably the best in the sophisticated/suave/balance category, and unfortunately, one of the last few affordable well-aged bourbons on the market that you might actually see in a store somewhere.  I've never thought that one quite gets the love it deserves here, either, though I've posted about that elsewhere, and it does come up far more often than RHF.

And now for the ILLEGAL BUT RELEVANT answers that deserve more love from this community, whether they are technically allowed on this particular sub-forum or not:

Mellow Corn - While this has recently become the whiskey equivalent of PBR among the hipster folk, much like PBR, this actually deserves its slighly ironic appreciation, as a cheap bottom shelf brand that packs some pretty satisfying flavor (not to mention the hideous packaging that adds its own nostalgic charm.  This bottle is still what OGDBIB used to be-- one of the endearingly WORST graphic decisions ever made)  Except this is WAY better than PBR.  Where PBR is just the best of the junk beers, this is actually a very rare species of American whiskey: straight corn whiskey, bottled-in-bond, no less, for dirt cheap.  It has a lighter and more delicate flavor, owing to being aged in 2nd use barrels, and I would easily admit that so many other whiskeys are so much greater than this, and yet for some reason, when I get home from work, this is one of the first bottles that calls my name, and it seems to disappear at a much faster rate than it rationally should when I have so many other crazy good bottles around the house.  Something about the fact that it tastes so good and satisfies so easily, while costing so little, makes me reach for it first before admittedly "better" whiskeys.  P.S. - it melds seamlessly with a well-done light lager or cream ale chaser (though I recommend craft brands).  A very satisfying dive combo.  Sip the whiskey, then sip the beer. Amen.

Old Overholt Rye - the dumpy old junker/well whiskey of the bottom shelf that kept rye alive through the dark ages, this bottle is loved by a few in the know here, but generally passed over by almost EVERYONE both in the general population and on this board.  Which is totally understandable, given the affordable greatness of Rittenhouse, the darling of this board, the cocktail movement, and just about anyone with a whisk(e)y blog since 2009.  And admittedly, Overholt isn't for everyone as a neat pour, where its peanut-and-eucalyptus laden rough edges make it something of an acquired-taste bottom shelfer for those in the know.  But let me share a secret with you.  This $15 bottle is a mandatory addition to your cocktail repertoire that outperforms almost every other rye for complexity and satisfaction in a mixed drink.  It delivers an unmistakable dry, nutty, spicy, complex sophistication when you dose it in a classic cocktail, with a lot more burly character and interest than Rittenhouse, WT101Rye, Bulleit Rye, Dickel Rye, or any of the other Brooklyn speakeasy hipster darlings - all of which smooth out and disappear in the background despite being higher proof than this guy.  If you like a good manhattan, you positively owe it to yourself to take a very tiny, affordable risk and mix up a classic 2:1 ratio of this rye and Dolin sweet vermouth (even try it first without bitters, then add 1-2 dashes Angostura if you like).  My wife and I came up with this recipe by sheer accident/luck/providence on our very first try at making a manhattan, and to this day nothing has beat it in our opinion (including more expensive vermouth options! try Dolin!), nor have very many cocktails of any breed rivaled its satisfying sophistication.  Please try this.  It's also great in any number of other classic (underrated) cocktails: Old Pal, Boulevardier, Scofflaw (though please make your own grenadine with actual pomegranate juice, if you are going to try this one), Suburban, etc.  If a cocktail recipe calls for a whiskey, Overholt is the first one we try.  Rough on its own + cheap + amazing mixed = perfect cocktail spirit.  Just be sure that you go gentle on shaking or stirring this, as it is only 80 proof, and I find most people and bartenders water down their drinks too much with ice.  About 15-20 stirs is spot on with this guy, and then strain into a glass with no ice.  This is what cocktails should taste like.

A quick nod in Scotch to the last great affordable and well aged Scotch remaining on the market: Glenmorangie 10.  This one falls in that subtle/balanced/sophisticated camp with FRYL and ER10, and is still available for $30-something, making it a bottle to consider buying with your bourbon cash. (The only other very affordable Scotch bottles worth trying with your bourbon money: McClelland's Highland (about $20 and more smokey), Speyburn 10 year ($25 and more floral), Old Pulteney 12 ($40 and very saline), Laphroaig ($40 on sale and crazy smoky/rubbery, definitely not for everyone))  Aged exclusively in ex-bourbon barrels, which gives it a soft note of vanilla, and makes it perhaps the most approachable Scotch for bourbon drinkers (endlessly debatable).  What really strikes me in this one is the tingly zesty grapefruit bitter finish, which perfectly complements the saltwater taffy and honey profile of a clean Speyside/Highland malt with almost no smoke.  It's a little bit like a crisp and perfectly balanced IPA in distilled form: very noble dance of calm and collected but charming malt flavors with a drying citrusy finish.  Lots of flavor, deeply satisfying, incredible harmony.  Though you do have to visit this one first before any excursions into bourbon territory, owing to its greater delicacy and dryness.

And the number one obscure and very-much-not-bourbon-but-should-be-loved-by-all-bourbon-drinkers spirit is: 

Laird's Bottled in Bond/100 Proof Apple Brandy.  Now, this has evidently been discovered by trendy bartender cocktail types, because it has recently lost its BiB designation owing to unforeseen demand, as a thread in the non-whiskey alcohol forum on this site discusses.  But laying that aside, as an American spirits enthusiast and lover of the bourbony flavors created by aging in charred white oak, every self-respecting bourbon enthusiast owes it to himself to try this incredible living fossil of American distilling tradition.  The reasons are legion: 1) this is the oldest surviving, continually operating distillery ON THIS CONTINENT. 2) this is the only example of a Bottled in Bond brandy IN THE WORLD, which shows the strong influence of bourbon culture on this product (sadly, demand has required that they mix vintages this year, but you may still be able to find the BiB version in the wild, and they fully intend to catch up with demand and bring it back, and the current 100 proof version should be pretty close in flavor profile anyway)  3) this is the only apple brandy I'm aware of that is aged in charred white american oak, though there are probably a couple small regional craft producers out there, and 4) it simply tastes delicious on its own and makes great cocktails.  My wife and I recently did a few blind tasting sessions of French calvados and American apple brandies (sorry, that sentence can't help but sound ridiculously pretentious).  We love Calvados like crazy - probably the most underappreciated spirit in the whole world, PERIOD.  But Laird's BiB stood out as absolutely fascinating in a crowd of Frenchie brandy.  Because the American oak influence is HUGE: this stuff smells like apples and toasted marshmallows.  It has all the flavors you love about bourbon, but it has the unique twist of a distinct fruity apple flavor, and that makes it a really fascinating adventure for the bourbon drinker who has tried just about everything out there: it's comfortably familiar, but enticingly different.  This drinks a lot like a Heaven Hill produced BiB - a little rough around the edges, but full of satisfying flavor, and a complete steal for those in the know who won't turn up their noses at it.  And it makes AMAZING classic cocktails.  Try a jack rose with this.  Sub it in for whiskey in a cocktail of your choice.  It really stands up to mixing at 100 proof.  $20 = can't lose. And it gets bonus points for joining the ranks of the old-school ugly club: this bottle is as outdated, uncool, and stupid looking as Mellow Corn, OGDBiB, JTS Brown, or virtually any other American whiskey that just hasn't been that popular since the 30s/40s.  

OK, I guess I should have started my own blog and posted this there.  Please pardon the book-length essay.  I just think anyone who is reading this thread and hasn't tried these hidden gems is in for a real treat, and I couldn't hide my enthusiasm for some of the best values in spirits (excepting RHF) despite the risk of attracting attention to them and driving up the price!

Great writing !!!

i will defiantly try the LAIRD's bib. 

Please ket us know if any other whisky's to ryrun

[The Black Tot]

Now THAT is a post! Thank you very much, thornsbreak!

[Harry in WashDC]

Now I don't feel so bad sneaking that OO off the shelf when making late night Manhattans.  For myself.

[squire]

Rock Hill and Laird's are definitely sleepers.

[b1gcountry]

Rock Hill isn't much of a sleeper here. It is impossible to find

[B.B. Babington]

and Laird's still has age statements

[squire]

Sleepers as in standing outside of the limelight.  Around here Rock Hill Farms is easy to find because it collects dust on the shelves of the two stores that carry it in stock.  No real demand for it the owners say.  I mention it might move if they lowered the price, but . . .

[b1gcountry]

BTW doesn't seem to send much supply over to st Louis. Their stuff is pretty hard to find. Even eagle rare and benchmark are pretty uncommon. BT itself is fairly easy though.

[mbroo5880i]

24 minutes ago, squire said:

Sleepers as in standing outside of the limelight.  Around here Rock Hill Farms is easy to find because it collects dust on the shelves of the two stores that carry it in stock.  No real demand for it the owners say.  I mention it might move if they lowered the price, but . . .

I like Rock Hill well enough.  The problem is that in my area the price is often higher than Blanton's.  I find the profile to be a littler hotter than I prefer. I don't believe it is the proof but moreso the age combined with the proof.  Meanwhile, I haven't ran across a Blanton's that I didn't enjoy so it is much easier to just pick up another bottle of it.

[mark fleetwood]

On 2/20/2016, 8:58:22, thornsbreak said:

I have so many to add to this topic, bottles that get don't much attention on this forum.  Though I'm going to cheat a little bit and mention a few non-bourbon spirits that I think anyone who loves a good value in bourbon MUST try.

But let's start with the legal answers:

For bourbon, I completely agree with the couple guys that have mentioned Four Roses Yellow Label.  Its proof, I think, gains it little respect here.  But it has bowled me over in blind tastings.  What makes it incredible is its subtlety and understated nuance.  I'm a huge fan of all Four Roses products, but even I forget how intriguing, charming, and sophisticated this whiskey is.  Whenever I buy a bottle, it disappears ridiculously quickly.  I just can't get enough of the delicate cinnamon/cumin spice dusting, the mellow mentos vanilla/mint finish, or the duck/rabbit  red/green fruitiness that it warps back and forth between owing to its high rye content.  I think this completely rivals the sophistication, poise, and elegance of Basil Hayden's for 1/3 of the price.  And this is amazing with a nice cigar - smooth and soothing vanilla works perfectly with figgy tobacco.  When I can get this for under $30 a handle, I sometimes wonder why I bother to buy any other whiskey at all.  But don't tell anyone.  Four Roses' high-end stuff has definitely been noticed, and I wouldn't want this to head that direction.  Grazing their bottom shelf is like getting the untouched leftovers for free at a high end restaurant.  I'm not ashamed.

My as-yet unmentioned submission in this conversation (which I think very well underscores its appropriate addition to the list) is Rock Hill Farms.  Lost in a sea of highly-sought after Buffalo Trace products, with distribution that makes it difficult to find, and definitely mis-priced in some markets, nevertheless, this is the Buffalo Trace profile in the perfect constellation of age and proof.  Would I buy it for $60?  Not very often.  Value is the main problem here.  But pour it in my glass, and I'm in 7th heaven (love that tangy fruity dried apricot/grape and powdered sugar BT profile).  I picked up 2 bottles at the liquor store I used to work at for $39.99 each.  At that price, it's one of the best out there.  But I can understand why most of us might pass this one up... NAS at a pretty penny with so many other truly great bourbons in the price range.  Nevertheless, a truly fantastic bourbon.  And on that note, time for a pour, which I have neglected in my own collection for months, proving my own point even to myself   This one is all about the balance, not the tackle-you WOW factor.  Though if we wanna talk bang-for-your buck, Eagle Rare 10 year is probably the best in the sophisticated/suave/balance category, and unfortunately, one of the last few affordable well-aged bourbons on the market that you might actually see in a store somewhere.  I've never thought that one quite gets the love it deserves here, either, though I've posted about that elsewhere, and it does come up far more often than RHF.

And now for the ILLEGAL BUT RELEVANT answers that deserve more love from this community, whether they are technically allowed on this particular sub-forum or not:

Mellow Corn - While this has recently become the whiskey equivalent of PBR among the hipster folk, much like PBR, this actually deserves its slighly ironic appreciation, as a cheap bottom shelf brand that packs some pretty satisfying flavor (not to mention the hideous packaging that adds its own nostalgic charm.  This bottle is still what OGDBIB used to be-- one of the endearingly WORST graphic decisions ever made)  Except this is WAY better than PBR.  Where PBR is just the best of the junk beers, this is actually a very rare species of American whiskey: straight corn whiskey, bottled-in-bond, no less, for dirt cheap.  It has a lighter and more delicate flavor, owing to being aged in 2nd use barrels, and I would easily admit that so many other whiskeys are so much greater than this, and yet for some reason, when I get home from work, this is one of the first bottles that calls my name, and it seems to disappear at a much faster rate than it rationally should when I have so many other crazy good bottles around the house.  Something about the fact that it tastes so good and satisfies so easily, while costing so little, makes me reach for it first before admittedly "better" whiskeys.  P.S. - it melds seamlessly with a well-done light lager or cream ale chaser (though I recommend craft brands).  A very satisfying dive combo.  Sip the whiskey, then sip the beer. Amen.

Old Overholt Rye - the dumpy old junker/well whiskey of the bottom shelf that kept rye alive through the dark ages, this bottle is loved by a few in the know here, but generally passed over by almost EVERYONE both in the general population and on this board.  Which is totally understandable, given the affordable greatness of Rittenhouse, the darling of this board, the cocktail movement, and just about anyone with a whisk(e)y blog since 2009.  And admittedly, Overholt isn't for everyone as a neat pour, where its peanut-and-eucalyptus laden rough edges make it something of an acquired-taste bottom shelfer for those in the know.  But let me share a secret with you.  This $15 bottle is a mandatory addition to your cocktail repertoire that outperforms almost every other rye for complexity and satisfaction in a mixed drink.  It delivers an unmistakable dry, nutty, spicy, complex sophistication when you dose it in a classic cocktail, with a lot more burly character and interest than Rittenhouse, WT101Rye, Bulleit Rye, Dickel Rye, or any of the other Brooklyn speakeasy hipster darlings - all of which smooth out and disappear in the background despite being higher proof than this guy.  If you like a good manhattan, you positively owe it to yourself to take a very tiny, affordable risk and mix up a classic 2:1 ratio of this rye and Dolin sweet vermouth (even try it first without bitters, then add 1-2 dashes Angostura if you like).  My wife and I came up with this recipe by sheer accident/luck/providence on our very first try at making a manhattan, and to this day nothing has beat it in our opinion (including more expensive vermouth options! try Dolin!), nor have very many cocktails of any breed rivaled its satisfying sophistication.  Please try this.  It's also great in any number of other classic (underrated) cocktails: Old Pal, Boulevardier, Scofflaw (though please make your own grenadine with actual pomegranate juice, if you are going to try this one), Suburban, etc.  If a cocktail recipe calls for a whiskey, Overholt is the first one we try.  Rough on its own + cheap + amazing mixed = perfect cocktail spirit.  Just be sure that you go gentle on shaking or stirring this, as it is only 80 proof, and I find most people and bartenders water down their drinks too much with ice.  About 15-20 stirs is spot on with this guy, and then strain into a glass with no ice.  This is what cocktails should taste like.

A quick nod in Scotch to the last great affordable and well aged Scotch remaining on the market: Glenmorangie 10.  This one falls in that subtle/balanced/sophisticated camp with FRYL and ER10, and is still available for $30-something, making it a bottle to consider buying with your bourbon cash. (The only other very affordable Scotch bottles worth trying with your bourbon money: McClelland's Highland (about $20 and more smokey), Speyburn 10 year ($25 and more floral), Old Pulteney 12 ($40 and very saline), Laphroaig ($40 on sale and crazy smoky/rubbery, definitely not for everyone))  Aged exclusively in ex-bourbon barrels, which gives it a soft note of vanilla, and makes it perhaps the most approachable Scotch for bourbon drinkers (endlessly debatable).  What really strikes me in this one is the tingly zesty grapefruit bitter finish, which perfectly complements the saltwater taffy and honey profile of a clean Speyside/Highland malt with almost no smoke.  It's a little bit like a crisp and perfectly balanced IPA in distilled form: very noble dance of calm and collected but charming malt flavors with a drying citrusy finish.  Lots of flavor, deeply satisfying, incredible harmony.  Though you do have to visit this one first before any excursions into bourbon territory, owing to its greater delicacy and dryness.

And the number one obscure and very-much-not-bourbon-but-should-be-loved-by-all-bourbon-drinkers spirit is: 

Laird's Bottled in Bond/100 Proof Apple Brandy.  Now, this has evidently been discovered by trendy bartender cocktail types, because it has recently lost its BiB designation owing to unforeseen demand, as a thread in the non-whiskey alcohol forum on this site discusses.  But laying that aside, as an American spirits enthusiast and lover of the bourbony flavors created by aging in charred white oak, every self-respecting bourbon enthusiast owes it to himself to try this incredible living fossil of American distilling tradition.  The reasons are legion: 1) this is the oldest surviving, continually operating distillery ON THIS CONTINENT. 2) this is the only example of a Bottled in Bond brandy IN THE WORLD, which shows the strong influence of bourbon culture on this product (sadly, demand has required that they mix vintages this year, but you may still be able to find the BiB version in the wild, and they fully intend to catch up with demand and bring it back, and the current 100 proof version should be pretty close in flavor profile anyway)  3) this is the only apple brandy I'm aware of that is aged in charred white american oak, though there are probably a couple small regional craft producers out there, and 4) it simply tastes delicious on its own and makes great cocktails.  My wife and I recently did a few blind tasting sessions of French calvados and American apple brandies (sorry, that sentence can't help but sound ridiculously pretentious).  We love Calvados like crazy - probably the most underappreciated spirit in the whole world, PERIOD.  But Laird's BiB stood out as absolutely fascinating in a crowd of Frenchie brandy.  Because the American oak influence is HUGE: this stuff smells like apples and toasted marshmallows.  It has all the flavors you love about bourbon, but it has the unique twist of a distinct fruity apple flavor, and that makes it a really fascinating adventure for the bourbon drinker who has tried just about everything out there: it's comfortably familiar, but enticingly different.  This drinks a lot like a Heaven Hill produced BiB - a little rough around the edges, but full of satisfying flavor, and a complete steal for those in the know who won't turn up their noses at it.  And it makes AMAZING classic cocktails.  Try a jack rose with this.  Sub it in for whiskey in a cocktail of your choice.  It really stands up to mixing at 100 proof.  $20 = can't lose. And it gets bonus points for joining the ranks of the old-school ugly club: this bottle is as outdated, uncool, and stupid looking as Mellow Corn, OGDBiB, JTS Brown, or virtually any other American whiskey that just hasn't been that popular since the 30s/40s.  

OK, I guess I should have started my own blog and posted this there.  Please pardon the book-length essay.  I just think anyone who is reading this thread and hasn't tried these hidden gems is in for a real treat, and I couldn't hide my enthusiasm for some of the best values in spirits (excepting RHF) despite the risk of attracting attention to them and driving up the price!

Fantastic post. And FWIW I like your Baird's reco. (Thx to Sku and Dave Driscoll at K&L, we've gone off the deep end for Armagnac, but Calvados and Baird's are right there.) My only suggestion: "shhhuuush".

[b1gcountry]

Well I picked up a DN1843 and cracked it open tonight. It isn't half bad for $12. This wasn't labeled bib. The bourbon had a somewhat boozy taste, but flavor was bold and decent, and had a sort of wt101 funk to it, but I usually don't like that funk, and this funk was good ;) stood up well to an ice cube

[Jacket]

On 2/20/2016, 8:58:22, thornsbreak said:

And now for the ILLEGAL BUT RELEVANT answers that deserve more love from this community, whether they are technically allowed on this particular sub-forum or not:

Mellow Corn - While this has recently become the whiskey equivalent of PBR among the hipster folk, much like PBR, this actually deserves its slighly ironic appreciation, as a cheap bottom shelf brand that packs some pretty satisfying flavor (not to mention the hideous packaging that adds its own nostalgic charm.  This bottle is still what OGDBIB used to be-- one of the endearingly WORST graphic decisions ever made)  Except this is WAY better than PBR.  Where PBR is just the best of the junk beers, this is actually a very rare species of American whiskey: straight corn whiskey, bottled-in-bond, no less, for dirt cheap.  It has a lighter and more delicate flavor, owing to being aged in 2nd use barrels, and I would easily admit that so many other whiskeys are so much greater than this, and yet for some reason, when I get home from work, this is one of the first bottles that calls my name, and it seems to disappear at a much faster rate than it rationally should when I have so many other crazy good bottles around the house.  Something about the fact that it tastes so good and satisfies so easily, while costing so little, makes me reach for it first before admittedly "better" whiskeys.  P.S. - it melds seamlessly with a well-done light lager or cream ale chaser (though I recommend craft brands).  A very satisfying dive combo.  Sip the whiskey, then sip the beer. Amen.

 

And a +1 for the home maker crowd.  Mellow Corn is a good comparison if you're following along at home...

And a +1 for the home maker crowd.  Mellow Corn is a good comparison if you're following along at home...

Edited February 28, 2016 by Jacket

[KyleCBreese]

I live about 15 minutes from Laird's and they aren't even well known in the state. The BIB can still be found in stores around here.

[OldDrinker1978]

Charter 101 - Boy is it good and under rated. I like it more than both ER10 and BT which I both really enjoy too. On par with OWA to me.

[Golzee]

7 hours ago, OldDrinker1978 said:

Charter 101 - Boy is it good and under rated. I like it more than both ER10 and BT which I both really enjoy too. On par with OWA to me.

This is on my list to try, however, I haven't seen it anywhere yet.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Golzee