EC12 or ECSmB

[The Black Tot]

I know what you mean. I actually bought one a month ago just to make sure I hadn't changed my opinion about it. There's nothing wrong with it, certainly. I'd drink it anytime and be happy. But it's not my preference.

I like ECBP, but even that I can wait for until the boom is over.

It will all be back, in time. 8yrs from now we'll all be starting threads celebrating the return of these age statements, with barrel selection programs open everywhere.

That's about how long it will take me to drink my bunker down.

Until then OWA is still $27.

[Paddy]

Interestingly, HH has already removed any/all evidence of the existence of EC 12 from their gift shop.

All that history simply vanquished, like it never existed.

On a positive note, they now have all kinds of great ECSmB labeled barrel heads, rocks glasses, t-shirts, snifters, etc, etc, etc.! 

  

[The Black Tot]

Wow. Very interesting, Paddy! These are dirty times.

[smokinjoe]

1 hour ago, The Black Tot said:

Wow. Very interesting, Paddy! These are dirty times.

Paul, as it applies in this case, will define "dirty" for me, please?

[The Black Tot]

1 hour ago, smokinjoe said:

Paul, as it applies in this case, will define "dirty" for me, please?

The fast erasing of the history at the bourbon heritage center of EC12 being 12.

Maybe that's not dirty to you, not wishing to fight about it, but you can either see it as:

A ) adapting to the branding of the new product, or

B ) covering the tracks of the age statement as fast as possible.

I'm in B camp, and that's OK.

[smokinjoe]

18 minutes ago, The Black Tot said:

The fast erasing of the history at the bourbon heritage center of EC12 being 12.

Maybe that's not dirty to you, not wishing to fight about it, but you can either see it as:

A ) adapting to the branding of the new product, or

B ) covering the tracks of the age statement as fast as possible.

I'm in B camp, and that's OK.

HH cant' win.  You know what the alternate experience that would undoubtedly been posted here, and called "dirty", too?  That's right.  If there were a full HH Gift Shop of EC12 swag!:

"I was in the HH Gift Shop today, and you won't believe what shirts, glasses, bar mats and everything else they had?  ALL EC12!!!  I think that's really being disingenuous if not downright deceitful that they would continue to promote and offer marketing gear for a brand that no longer exists!!!  That is false advertising at its worst, and a blatant attempt to capitalize on the good name of the brand that was so ignominiously eliminated.  Shame on those corporate money grubbers!!  Unfortunately, I saw a nice older couple buying 6 of the EC 12 glasses, and I felt bad that they were being duped by this" ... yadda, yadda, yadda..

[The Black Tot]

I'd argue HH can't lose.

They're selling everything they produce, age statement or not.

If that's being unable to win, I want me some of that losing action.

[smokinjoe]

30 minutes ago, The Black Tot said:

I'd argue HH can't lose.

They're selling everything they produce, age statement or not.

If that's being unable to win, I want me some of that losing action.

It's "losing" in our jaded court of bourbon enthusiasts opinion...because when they don't have t-shirts, we're pissed.  When they have t-shirts, we're pissed on that, too.

This industry had it's collective asses handed to them for decades.  Losing money, closing distilleries, laying off people, just trying to just keep the lights on, and it chaps my ass that when things turn around for them, we cry foul. 

[Harry in WashDC]

Joe, does this mean I'm not allowed to wear my canvas Buffalo Trace ballcap anymore?  It goes with ALL my outfits regardless of shirt color.

[The Black Tot]

HH is still a fave distillery of mine. In general, they've been excellent.

That doesn't make them immune to disapproval, nor me a traitor if I don't like a particular set of moves that they make.

If Larry Kass PMs me and tells me he's been crying all night because he read on sb.com that I didn't approve of recent EC12 decisions, I promise to PM him back and communicate to him my general support of HH.

[Paddy]

55 minutes ago, The Black Tot said:

HH is still a fave distillery of mine. In general, they've been excellent.

That doesn't make them immune to disapproval, nor me a traitor if I don't like a particular set of moves that they make.

If Larry Kass PMs me and tells me he's been crying all night because he read on sb.com that I didn't approve of recent EC12 decisions, I promise to PM him back and communicate to him my general support of HH.

I'm with you Paul, I've always been a HH fan boy... and will continue to be.  I also 'get' what Joe is saying.  I'm on record somewhere in this thread that 'they're trying', and they are! 

I was just reporting my experience, and my experience is one that has always appreciated the nod toward their history that our sacred distiller's have maintained, and yes, I'm still looking at the situation with an understanding of the times (through veteran eyes) and need for change. 

Hell, I wasn't even looking for an EC 12 t-shirt, but I was just a little taken aback that I couldn't find any reference whatsoever to what I consider to be one of the single biggest changes in the recent history of the distillery.  I mean come on, not even an old barrel head nod to the old girl adorning one of the walls?  To me, that would've been a nice nostalgic touch, and if nothing else, maybe a little wink toward those of us who not only care, but understand the current state of the ship.   

[smokinjoe]

1 hour ago, The Black Tot said:

HH is still a fave distillery of mine. In general, they've been excellent.

That doesn't make them immune to disapproval, nor me a traitor if I don't like a particular set of moves that they make.

If Larry Kass PMs me and tells me he's been crying all night because he read on sb.com that I didn't approve of recent EC12 decisions, I promise to PM him back and communicate to him my general support of HH.

You're right Paul, it doesn't mean that their actions are not subject to our sometimes negative scrutiny.  But, "dirty" and not having a t-shirt with a 12 on it are not the same thing.  My example of what would have been said (not meaning Pads of course) if they were loaded with EC12 stuff is spot on.  It would have happened, and the disapproval would have rained down on how they were using the brand equity of a label no longer available in order to sell more stuff.  I guarantee it.

I just want our scrutiny and feedback to be on what is truly important, and not on peripheral things that really have no bearing on anything.  I understand the frustration that can be the result of the tremendous popularity of our hobby, when sometimes it feels like all of the things that are important to us as enthusiasts are slipping away.   I just think it is good for the industry in accurately evaluating our customer thoughts in these challenging times, as well as to help us keep our sanity , if we try and refrain from crying wolf too much.

[The Black Tot]

It's a good discussion. We both love HH. And we both love age statements. Let love rule.

[smokinjoe]

27 minutes ago, The Black Tot said:

It's a good discussion. We both love HH. And we both love age statements. Let love rule.

Indeed, Friends.  Cheers to y'all.  I hope we can share a few EC12's and more in Kentucky at Sampler.

[flahute]

I'm not a fan of the age statement removal but understand why they have to do it. I do appreciate that they provided ample warning of the move which allowed me to stock up on the age stated product. Regarding the changes at the gift shop: It does seem a little harsh in terms of how quickly it appears to have happened. I guess that's how it goes. I agree with Paddy that it would be nice if there was some nod to the legacy of the red 12.

[bmajazz]

why not make the new abbreviation ECn12?  "n" for "not".  It's a bit whimsical, a bit acidic, short, and maybe HH will notice someday.

[mark fleetwood]

6 hours ago, smokinjoe said:

It's "losing" in our jaded court of bourbon enthusiasts opinion...because when they don't have t-shirts, we're pissed.  When they have t-shirts, we're pissed on that, too.

This industry had it's collective asses handed to them for decades.  Losing money, closing distilleries, laying off people, just trying to just keep the lights on, and it chaps my ass that when things turn around for them, we cry foul. 

That's a good point. Perspective.