EC12 or ECSmB

[PaulO]

EC has been available basically everywhere with at least a modest bourbon selection.  I never realized how fast the turnover was.  It seemed that it went from red 12 to age on the back to NAS in a very short time.  I'm sure I could still find some straglers.  In the same price range there are too many other brands that interest me more.  I'm still sorry to see the big red 12 go.  To me, that was the EC brand.  Even if the NAS is pretty good, I feel it has an idendtity crisis.  What is it?

[MeAndMyWhiskey]

I look at EC without the 12 as a new product. HH is tops in my book for value and quality and I look forward to trying it. However, it is not EC 12. It is a new product; even if it is designed around the EC 12 profile. From my perspective as a bourbon dweeb (not yet cool or experienced enough to be a "geek"), I would have preferred to have seen it more honestly presented as a new product. In my mind there is only one reason to change it the way they did; to let the new product trade off the good will of the old product. Early in my bourbon odyssey I narrowly avoided buying one of the new Oregon Black Maple Hill bourbons, thinking i had found one of the legendary BMHs. I didn't like that feeling and it is probably what makes me not like to see HH do that with EC. They have the right to do whatever they want. But if HH cares what I think (and I don't know why anyone would), I don't like this sales tactic.

On the bright side, I can't wait until I am in the position to some day tell a Bourbon Newb my own stories about back in 20-Teens when we could get EC 12 on the shelf anywhere for $25 and the new EC can't hold a candle to it. 

[Quantum]

3 hours ago, tanstaafl2 said:

I haven't seen it locally but I also haven't really looked. I would rather wait and try the ECNAS a year or so down the road rather than now when the barrels being blended may still be pretty close to 12yo. I think it will tell more about the profile change after they have been doing it awhile and I suspect that more younger barrels will begin creeping into the mix.

 

I agree with this. I wouldn't put too much stock into any comparisons or reviews for at least a year. I am actually looking forward to trying it once the profile shifts a little younger. For the past few years I have thought W12 and EC12 would be better as a 10 yr or NAS.

[tanstaafl2]

14 hours ago, mbroo5880i said:

I read on one of the blogs (breakingbourbon?) a rumor that EC12 will be re-released in September in the $45-$55 range.  It is on their release schedule so they don't state the source of the rumor. 

Should this be true, still a big if I will concede, then it should come as no surprise to anyone. It certainly won't come as a surprise to me!  I was pretty much expecting it from the moment the age statement went away.

It might even be the necessary reality of the market today. But the way it has been handled from the beginning has been poor in my opinion.

[Spade]

2 hours ago, tanstaafl2 said:

It might even be the necessary reality of the market today. But the way it has been handled from the beginning has been poor in my opinion.

Agreed. Heaven Hill has long had quite a few underpriced products, so raising their prices on some of those is reasonable. In other words, I don't have any problem with a higher price, assuming it does get rereleased and assuming that price is reasonable

At $45 or so I'd buy a bottle every once in a while — if it sees an EC18 kind of increase, forget about it.

The way they've gone about this is ridiculous and totally transparent. 

[tanstaafl2]

1 hour ago, Spade said:

Agreed. Heaven Hill has long had quite a few underpriced products, so raising their prices on some of those is reasonable. In other words, I don't have any problem with a higher price, assuming it does get rereleased and assuming that price is reasonable

At $45 or so I'd buy a bottle every once in a while — if it sees an EC18 kind of increase, forget about it.

The way they've gone about this is ridiculous and totally transparent. 

Although admittedly transparent (presuming it does in fact happen that way) mostly only to us nerds, who don't seem to really amount to much in the view of the distillery, especially the bean counters. But that is capitalism for you I suppose and I have to admit in the end I can hardly fault them for taking advantage of what the market will bear. 

The pretense of it being out of supply for a period of time is necessary to get the largely unaware average consumer to think the jump in price is necessary and maybe make the brand seem even more desirable because now it is "rare and hard to get".

After all that is the kind of whiskey that tastes the best! Especially when mixed in a large volume of coke...

[mbroo5880i]

8 hours ago, PaulO said:

EC has been available basically everywhere with at least a modest bourbon selection.  I never realized how fast the turnover was.  It seemed that it went from red 12 to age on the back to NAS in a very short time.  I'm sure I could still find some straglers.  In the same price range there are too many other brands that interest me more.  I'm still sorry to see the big red 12 go.  To me, that was the EC brand.  Even if the NAS is pretty good, I feel it has an idendtity crisis.  What is it?

The transition from EC12 with the big red "12" on the front to NAS appeared almost quickly as EWSB vintage releases moving from mid-summer to early January.  I wouldn't be surprised to see EWSB 2008 coming out this summer. 

The NAS was all that I saw today.  If I run across a "Red 12" or even a "12 on the back" bottle, and the price is in the low to mid-$20s, I will probably pick up one or two.  I will eventually pick up a NAS bottle, again if the price is in the low to mid-$20s.  Probably later rather than sooner.  However, if the price does jump to $45 for the 12 year, then I will probably pass.   Not really out of protest, but because frankly, while that price for a bourbon of know quality is reasonable in today's market, I prefer other offerings at a lesser or similar price.

What amazes me is how quickly even the "12 on the back" bottles have been wiped out at every retailer (liquor store, grocery, etc.).

[TheOakMonster]

Our store received a case of "12 on back" last week and received a NAS this week.  So, yes, that fast after the announcement. HH must've had stuff sitting on pallets ready to ship when it made the announcement.

[ken_mays]

I wonder if Ezra Brooks 12 will suffer as well, or whether HH will keep putting what is essentially EC12 in those bottles.  EB12 was always about 5-10 bucks more, but for those who are insistent on the 12 yr AS, it may be a suitable substitute. 

[smokinjoe]

10 minutes ago, ken_mays said:

I wonder if Ezra Brooks 12 will suffer as well, or whether HH will keep putting what is essentially EC12 in those bottles.  EB12 was always about 5-10 bucks more, but for those who are insistent on the 12 yr AS, it may be a suitable substitute. 

Luxco can put whatever they want into Ezra Brooks 12.

[mosugoji64]

6 hours ago, smokinjoe said:

Luxco can put whatever they want into Ezra Brooks 12.

That's a great point, Joe, and it will be interesting to see what happens with that brand going forward. If HH with their massive stocks can't keep up with demand for a 12-year product then NDPs like Luxco must be scrambling for sources.

[meadeweber]

16 hours ago, Spade said:

Agreed. Heaven Hill has long had quite a few underpriced products, so raising their prices on some of those is reasonable. In other words, I don't have any problem with a higher price, assuming it does get rereleased and assuming that price is reasonable

At $45 or so I'd buy a bottle every once in a while — if it sees an EC18 kind of increase, forget about it.

The way they've gone about this is ridiculous and totally transparent. 

I  wonder if a rereleased EC 12 might be a single barrel to go along with the EC 18 and EC 23. I might be interested in that. 

[Xevious]

I very well may like a younger product as EC12 is too woody to my tastes. But at the current price point ($30 around here) I'll likely never find out. There are too many other drinks in the sub-30 range that I know I love.

[O'DubhGhaill]

Local store is running a sale, EC12 @$23.  Picked up six, left eight.  Haven't seen the NAS yet.

[UGARedDawg]

Fo those of you in the Metro Atlanta area (and perhaps other areas), Costco at Perimeter had a pallet of 12 on the back for $21.99 I think. 

Please leave one or two wo for the next guy if you decide to buy the pallet

[Josh]

On 2/13/2016, 12:29:20, ken_mays said:

I wonder if Ezra Brooks 12 will suffer as well, or whether HH will keep putting what is essentially EC12 in those bottles.  EB12 was always about 5-10 bucks more, but for those who are insistent on the 12 yr AS, it may be a suitable substitute. 

 

On 2/13/2016, 12:43:35, smokinjoe said:

Luxco can put whatever they want into Ezra Brooks 12.

 

On 2/13/2016, 7:08:32, mosugoji64 said:

That's a great point, Joe, and it will be interesting to see what happens with that brand going forward. If HH with their massive stocks can't keep up with demand for a 12-year product then NDPs like Luxco must be scrambling for sources.

Last Ezra B 12 I had smelled and tasted a lot like Old Forester, FWIW.

[amg]

Interestingly, Ezra B 12 just shot up from $34.99 to $49.99 at one of my locals.

[flahute]

1 hour ago, amg said:

Interestingly, Ezra B 12 just shot up from $34.99 to $49.99 at one of my locals.

Wow.......big pass at that price.

[PaulO]

On 2/16/2016, 7:27:17, Josh said:

 

 

Last Ezra B 12 I had smelled and tasted a lot like Old Forester, FWIW.

If I knew that's what it is, I'd be interested.  I know DSP 354 has supplied Mellow Corn and Rittenhouse.  Only problem, no real way to tell what bottle of Ezra has what in it, even if it changed at some point.

[dSculptor]

I wonder why a lot of Ls are running sales on the EC12's AS...? Seems odd to me, that it wouldn't be the other way around and increasing the price for the AS stuff. I just found an online LS with the AS on the back for $19.99, with a flat shipping rate to Wi. for $10,(not sure how they can do that) bought me a case, I was going to pass but the wife convinced me not to pass up the deal, even though I had already purchased 10 of them locally for $26.99. I called out there to verify that I would be getting the AS, and they said they had cases upon cases of the stuff and that it was going fast. Maybe HH is giving incentives to get rid of the old stock for some reason.

[Spade]

59 minutes ago, dSculptor said:

I wonder why a lot of Ls are running sales on the EC12's AS...? Seems odd to me, that it wouldn't be the other way around and increasing the price for the AS stuff. I just found an online LS with the AS on the back for $19.99, with a flat shipping rate to Wi. for $10,(not sure how they can do that) bought me a case, I was going to pass but the wife convinced me not to pass up the deal, even though I had already purchased 10 of them locally for $26.99. I called out there to verify that I would be getting the AS, and they said they had cases upon cases of the stuff and that it was going fast. Maybe HH is giving incentives to get rid of the old stock for some reason.

That's interesting. I've seen a few other posts pointing out sales of EC12. I haven't noticed any sales at any of the stores I regularly go to. But, the EC12 is definitely still on the shelves, or at least it was the last time I went shopping. It's definitely not disappearing immediately as a result of the switch to NAS, at least not everywhere.

[Paddy]

^^^^^maybe they don't want the 'old' AS bottles hanging around long enough to compete with the 'new' AS bottles that may soon be coming out with a + $50 price tag!

[flahute]

7 minutes ago, Paddy said:

^^^^^maybe they don't want the 'old' AS bottles hanging around long enough to compete with the 'new' AS bottles that may soon be coming out with a + $50 price tag!

Yup. It's a chance for them to move a whole lot of volume by playing up the "last of the age stated" angle so they can quickly replace it with the new NAS. 

[The Black Tot]

They're certainly going to get a lot of time to age the next batch with all of their customers sitting on bunkers 6-deep+ now.

[Harry in WashDC]

LOL.

13 minutes ago, The Black Tot said:

They're certainly going to get a lot of time to age the next batch with all of their customers sitting on bunkers 6-deep+ now.

That's me, and EC is not even on my "must have" list.