Is Wild Turkey immune to the boom?

[ken_mays]

I don't see much interest in WT products by too many folks.   Their products seem to sit on the shelves in droves, even the RR line.  Their limited releases and special editions (Diamond and Master's Keep) seem to fall flat among the members here, underproofed, underaged, and overpriced.

The WT 101 rye seems to be the one thing people regret not being able to get.

 

I know the Russells aren't big fans of keeping the juice in the barrel much past 10 years, but are they getting killed by the competition because of their philosophy?  Or is it just that people don't care for the taste profile?   How much does social media / internet hype (or lack thereof) play a role?

[starhopper]

I don't know about that, but I'm sitting here enjoying a nice pour of WT101 after a rough day at work and it is DELICIOUS!

[BourbonGuy]

I think the price has a lot to do with it.  When you sit there and think about it, you can get 4 bottles of 101 or one Wild Turkey Diamond.  I am sure people ask themselves is worth $120.  Without a great reason to buy, and if your cash it tight, you will not spring for it.  People need a good reason to buy at that price.  A number of family and friends are bourbon drinkers, and they just will not spend that type of money for bourbon. 

Edited January 15, 2016 by BourbonGuy

[MIDirtyBastard]

I personally believe wild turkey 101 to be the best value under $25, and also understand everyone's preferred taste to be different, as it should be.  I don't think there is a lack of love, and even though I enjoy Master's Keep, it is still $50 overpriced in my opinion.  But even at the price point of $150 a bottle in Michigan, I picked up multiple.  RR has been phenomenal lately based on the bottles I have had the privilege of enjoying.

[amg]

They are, in some ways, victims of their past success. Their product was the best around in the 80s and 90s, and it's never been as good since.

Also, the current brand ownership (face it, the Rusells aren't calling the shots) doesn't seem to understand the bourbon market very well, and a lot of the business decisions being made are falling flat with enthusiasts. I'm still hopeful that WT will return to its former glory, though.

[amg]

I'll also point out that RR 1998, their most expensive limited edition to come out to date, has been impossible to find. Seems like they've got a winner there.

[SebastianLloyd]

Unfortunately where I live we only get the WT81 and WTSpiced (in our government controlled liquor stores aka BCL), so most people see it as cheap whiskey. When a special release of WT gets released it usually just sits on the shelf because I would assume that most people think that paying top dollar for a cheap brand is not worth it over something that's more popular (like Knob Creek). I enjoy Rare Breed the most from what I've tried from these guys and that requires me to visit a private liquor store.

[flahute]

2 hours ago, SebastianLloyd said:

Unfortunately where I live we only get the WT81 and WTSpiced (in our government controlled liquor stores aka BCL), so most people see it as cheap whiskey. When a special release of WT gets released it usually just sits on the shelf because I would assume that most people think that paying top dollar for a cheap brand is not worth it over something that's more popular (like Knob Creek). I enjoy Rare Breed the most from what I've tried from these guys and that requires me to visit a private liquor store.

You need to visit the Bevmo in Bellingham. Not sure how the border guards are with you when you're coming back into your own country but you should give it a shot.

[flahute]

I don't think WT is immune, they just don't consistently put out limiteds that people fall over themselves to get so the hype machine never builds for them.

WT101 is their most well known product, and for the non enthusiast crowd, it has a dive bar type of reputation, so the higher end Turkeys suffer from the name association. For the enthusiasts, the higher end Turkeys don't represent enough of a step up in quality from 101 and Rare Breed to warrant regular purchases. On the limited side of the ledger, they don't have that one (or more) limited edition that comes out every year that everyone gets excited about and looks forward to. Instead, they have one offs that they do strange things with and charge large sums for that makes most of us wait around until we see enough reviews of it to decide if we want to take a chance. (Contrast this to BTAC at MSRP of $80 where none of us need to know anything other than "where do I pay?"). 

RR1998 was one of the rare hits for them. It got enough positive reviews (and was limited enough to begin with) that it's sold out almost immediately wherever it showed up despite the price. Master's Keep, on the other hand, sits and sits and sits. They know how to create hits at the high end, they just don't know how to do it consistently.

[ratcheer]

I am probably too old, but I have never associated WT101 with dive bars. When I was starting to become interested, in the mid-60's, it was just about the most premium bourbon there was, and it has always kept a solid positive image for me. Times change, I guess.

And, yeah, Russell's Reserve in the late 90's was some wonderful stuff.

Tim

[kcgumbohead]

I don't think they are immune. We know that they have increased barrel entry proof which increases yield per barrel (RB went from 108 to 112 not long ago). WT 101 used to be 8 yr age stated and is now NAS.

I am a big fan of the WT profile, 101, RB, RRSmbSB I enjoy all in their current iteration. Having also had the 101 of the 80s/90s that is some special bourbon. There is speculation that the 101 was, at least partially, well above the 8yrs on the label till this whole boom era kicked off.

Dropped age statements and upward adjustments in barrel entry proof could be tied to a tightened supply.

 

 

[OldDrinker1978]

To me Wild Turkey 101 and Rare Breed are probably the best value Bourbons on the market. They are also very widely available across Europe. Don't get me started on their older 8 and 12 Year 101 - those are up their with the top!

[meadeweber]

I am a big fan of WT products but I do believe the have missed the mark on their limiteds recently.  The Diamond and MK have too low a proof and the RR1998 gets great reviews but was too expensive and too limited (around 3000 bottles I believe).  I think they need some guidance on their limiteds but otherwise are doing well.  

[Harry in WashDC]

Steve (flahute) and Tim (ratcheer) captured my thoughts.  The WT 101 (bourbon and rye) is not my most consumed, but it is always ALWAYS on the shelf opened.  The WT RBs have always pleased me, but the special releases have never, at their prices, caused me to step up and buy a whole bottle.  I guess I'm just a "value" shopper.

BTW, when did WT 101 get the fancy new label?  OR, are the stores I shop in just really really slow at putting out new stock?

[Paddy]

Ironically, I didn't notice it until around the time turkey season opened up Harry. 

[holdtheice]

WT's standard releases like WT101 and WTRB are readily available, well priced, quality pours. In Australia, I feel WT represents the best value in Bourbon. WT101 and standard BT are roughly the same price, and BT is bottled at 80 proof here. An easy decision to make. I picked up some RRsmB for AUD$70 recently, or approximately USD$48 - that's untouchable from a bang for buck perspective over here. I'd rather WT miss the hype train so there's less reason for them to start upping their prices exponentially. 

Most of the WT's limited editions may be underproofed and underwhelming, but I'm tired of all this limited edition malarkey that seems so prevalent in the market today. Sure, their limited releases aren't as good as the BTAC collection, but I'm not willing to "build relationships" with retailers for the "privilege" of being able to buy a bottle of GTS for $400.

[Grain Belt]

With the loss of the 8 year old age statement on the 101 and the 12 year old 101 leaving the domestic market, I feel there is good evidence that WT is working through the boom just like the others. 

[Paddy]

The loss of the aforementioned age statements proves that they are not immune to the boom.  But as GB said above, they are working their way through it...and doing it quite well, IMO.

[SebastianLloyd]

On 1/14/2016, 10:32:36, flahute said:

You need to visit the Bevmo in Bellingham. Not sure how the border guards are with you when you're coming back into your own country but you should give it a shot.

There are duty charges at the boarder, but if I visit for a few days they're waived up to a certain amount. Quebec is RIDICULOUSLY high for duties ($162 charge for just spending $100 on whiskey), Alberta and Yukon are probably the lowest ($13) and BC is lowish ($67).

I like to use this site:

http://www.canadiandutycalculator.ca/index.php

I'll need to check out that store next time I'm in WA, I usually just head to Seattle (mmm, Crab Pot).

[Josh]

On 1/16/2016, 9:21:23, Grain Belt said:

With the loss of the 8 year old age statement on the 101 and the 12 year old 101 leaving the domestic market, I feel there is good evidence that WT is working through the boom just like the others. 

 

On 1/16/2016, 9:52:41, Paddy said:

The loss of the aforementioned age statements proves that they are not immune to the boom.  But as GB said above, they are working their way through it...and doing it quite well, IMO.

Exactly. They've been hit even harder by the boom than the big boys like Beam and Heaven Hill. Low proofs, the loss of age statements and falling ages of special releases is evidence of that.

[PaulO]

WT 101 is available just about everywhere I know that sells whiskey.  I guess some people must be buying it.  The bottles I've had have ranged from ok to hot and thin.  I can do better for $20 - $25.  RR 90 and RR Rye tasted just ok, but sort of bland and watered down.  I used to like the WT 101 Rye quite a bit, but haven't seen one in years.

[dboland]

WT stuff tends to get less love on here and other bourbon forums, for sure. Oddly, I have found the 101 and RR to be among my favorites and the last few bottles of each have been excellent - little to no heat, a somewhat viscous mouthfeel, and a very unique taste I haven't quite found in other bourbons. I hear about how great their stuff was 20 years ago and would love to try it, but I am quite pleased with what I have bought from them. Having nothing to compare them to besides other bourbons may influence my taste on it.

As for the LEs/higher-end stuff, I think WT plays more in the space with Four Roses than anything else and a PS FRSB is about the same price as RR and RB is about the same as the standard FRSB. If you are collecting recipes or just really like FRSB, chances are you won't go with the RR unless it gets a strong endorsement. I admit it was hard for me to justify these without tasting them, plus I found it difficult to trust them because they make the spiced stuff and cola thing. 

Edited January 21, 2016 by dboland

[shoshani]

There has to be some boom effect, because where once WT was a stalwart at 8 years old, today it's bottled "by taste" between 6 and 8 years. It still has caramel and vanilla flavors, but once also had a honey note, especially noticeable in the 12YO expression, that is sorely missing these days.

I'm curious as to how they're going to transition the products of the old distillery with the new, as the new distillery's make should be reaching bottling age this year or next. My guess is they'll mingle the two in proportions adjusted over a period of a few years, depending on how stocks hold out, but I can only hope that the whiskey from the new industrial-scale facility is even remotely as good as the whiskey from the old place was in its prime. 

[jeff]

I've never been a big fan of the RR line, especially since the drop in proof a number of years ago. That said, RB and KS are consistently two of my favorite pours, and have been for years. Tradition is one of my all time favorite bottlings. I wish I had another bottle 

[lukehalee]

In my opinion their LE's are grossly over priced. They are not in the same class as 4R's or the BTAC, yet they sticker price them higher. Thus, I'm always disappointed. Diamond and Masters might have been received positively at $60 and been a start to building WT some LE appreciation and anticipation.