What In The Name Of Hades Is Going ON?

[Ambernecter]

Hi SB Folks!

 

I've been away from this fine forum since around mid 2007 and felt the need to come back on and ask the above question.

 

Needless to say for anyone who remembers me, I've not been away from Bourbon for any great length of time! 

 

Any road up, here's the deal...  I live in England and what with the Internet and the way the World works, there is much better access to fine American Whiskey (both the product and information) but what, oh what has happened to the price of Bourbon? Lord knows it was always steep here in the UK but a bottle of Hirsch for example (blue wax, gold foil or gold wax) used to cost around £50 - 60. I was in London the other day and heard it's around £4000!

VW 20 YO used to cost £75 - 85 per bottle (huge thanks to Julian WW for telling me (on here) not to miss that drop - I didn't and it was beyond sublime!) but I've heard it's going for a similar price? In short ladies and gents, what is going on?

Also is there any VWFRR left in the world? Why was there no Weller available 12YO for over a year in the UK? 

I have a young pal of mine who WAS looking for a little guidance/intro to this fine spirit but after staying away from this forum as long as I have, I'm in the dark as to what's going on reference prices and latest releases. Can anybody help me with a precis of what I've missed since I've been away? It'd be greatly appreciated!

 

P.S. I realise those two example are hard to find and rare as chicken lips but I think I'm asking a fair question. WT 8YO has become hard to find and at least double the price it should be. I'm knocking about with daily pours and not much else! 

[tanstaafl2]

Mr. Supply, meet Mr. Demand. Unfortunately it has been too much demand and not enough supply. That and every Tom, Dick and Dirty Harry celebrity and Wall Street type thinks the "Pappiez iz da bomb" and turned it and most any other quasi allocated or rare whiskey into the latest must have at any price phenom. Unfortunately we are in an extended peak of this insanity and the illiteratii are as thick as flies on cow dung when it comes to American whiskey in general. We try dangling the latest 69 times distilled 80 proof bubblegum flavored purple vodka in a Lalique decanter in front of them but they just won't go the hell away.

To add to the merriment most of the major American distilleries underestimated the insanity (as if anyone would have been able to plan for this) and the tank is running dry. BT/Sazerac, home of "the Pappiez", seems to be affected more than most and Weller 12, "the poor mans Pappiez", has become another casualty of the insanity of it all.

Other than that, everything is about the same!

[tanstaafl2]

Oh, and no, there is no VWFRR left anywhere in the world so don't ask for it!

Edited January 15, 2016 by tanstaafl2

[smokinjoe]

I remember you well!  Welcome back to the forum.  The Bourbon Boom has rocketed even higher than in your days here.  Because of this, many collectors and wealthy luxury consumers with deep pockets have entered the buying game, and therefore, arbitraging bourbon has become the favorite past time of many.  Particularly for out of production and/or Limited Edition bourbons like Hirsch and PVW.  This grey market, and the inflated prices that have resulted there have unfortunately passed onto some legitimate retailers that can't resist the returns.  That is basically what you are seeing.  The general pricing from the distilleries has increased, but not as exorbitantly as seen in the grey market (AKA Secondary Market).  Actually, they are still fairly reasonable.

Availability for many brands like the W12 you reference is very tight and under allocations due to surging demand.. everywhere.  

Its a different world in Bourbonia now, than when you left us earlier.

But again, welcome back and please join in the discussions.  As always, it's always great to get the perspectives of folks everywhere.

[Ambernecter]

Many thanks for the reply/precis chaps, it certainly is a different place than back in 2007! An informative and punchy couple of replies that have kind of got me back in the saddle and up to speed...

 

Cheers for the welcome back Joe. I'm sure going to have a good dig around the site before I ask too many more questions. Once I've caught up slightly I'll be sticking my oar in from time to time. 

 

18 hours ago, tanstaafl2 said:

Oh, and no, there is no VWFRR left anywhere in the world so don't ask for it!

 

I can't say I'm surprised! about that going It was on Chuck Cowdery's recommendation that I enjoyed the odd bottle a decade or so back. I clearly had no idea just how good we all had it back then!

 

It's nice to be back on here after so long away and I'm looking forward to catching up with some old pals...

 

[squire]

Welcome back Phillip, always good to get a view from across the Pond.

[Ambernecter]

Cheers! It's been good to have a poke around the forum after so long away.

I think Van Winkle was in the process of moving across to BT last time I was on here - where do the years go?

[Sean Bond]

If it makes you feel any better, I had to order a bottle of this past year's Four Roses LE SmB from the UK (and pay $50 shipping) because I couldn't find it for anywhere near retail here in the US! 

 

I think there are a few problems that whiskey enthusiasts are facing:

1) Pappy got popular thanks to a few good reviews and great word of mouth from some TV talking heads, which made Pappy (and later, by extension literally every wheater BT makes) trendy/hard to get.

2) Whiskey/bourbon is, in some ways, a logical next step for craft beer enthusiasts who want a little more, and as there is a HUGE craft beer boom in the US, those enthusiasts are starting to spill over into the bourbon world (I'm one of them).

3) The internet and the craft beer boom have made it trendy to "collect" hard to find bottles (and post them on Instagram, of course), which has ensured that harder to find bourbons are not only more attractive ("wow, you got a bottle of Pappy? You're really cool!"), but also because they're attractive as collector's items, people are also willing to pay outrageous amounts of money to own "desirable" bottles.

 

Speaking as someone who is new to the hobby (only started seriously drinking/collecting bourbon a couple years back), it sucks in a lot of ways. My father waxes poetic about some old Stitzel-Weller 14 yr old bourbon that he used to drink all the time at a local place called the Berghoff (downtown Chicago), and I can barely track down a bottle of Weller 12 to give him as a birthday present!

[flahute]

^^^^^Yes. It's a common practice on some of the facebook groups now to talk about bourbon "collections" now and to specify certain purchases as being a "drinker". My response is always that they are ALL drinkers. Sad days for fans of the limiteds who have to compete with people willing to pay four figures for certain bourbons.

[Paddy]

Ahh Steve, but it's still a great day for those of us who know that there is plenty of great bourbon out there that's better than any current Pappy, and for a whole lot less dough.

The hardest part of our job is to not let them all them bastards know where all the really good stuff is! 

Old Crow anyone?

[flahute]

7 minutes ago, Paddy said:

Ahh Steve, but it's still a great day for those of us who know that there is plenty of great bourbon out there that's better than any current Pappy, and for a whole lot less dough.

The hardest part of our job is to not let them all them bastards know where all the really good stuff is! 

Old Crow anyone?

Indeed sir you are correct! Those of us in the cult know this all too well. 

[Ambernecter]

2 hours ago, flahute said:

Indeed sir you are correct! Those of us in the cult know this all too well. 

Hah! How amazing for me to be free of Facebook etc but to feel the need to return to the "SB cult"!

In just several days I've caught up on so much info and opinions it could make my head spin - like one pour o f GTS too many! Jokes apart,, the replies are most appreciated and valued.

Sean Bond having to order from abroad for his special pour? Takes me right back to the early days of my love affair with this lovely spirit! 

[Ambernecter]

2 hours ago, flahute said:

. 

 

Edited January 22, 2016 by Ambernecter
Double post sorry!

[Ambernecter]

2 hours ago, Paddy said:

Ahh Steve, but it's still a great day for those of us who know that there is plenty of great bourbon out there that's better than any current Pappy, and for a whole lot less dough.

The hardest part of our job is to not let them all them bastards know where all the really good stuff is! 

Old Crow anyone?

I think Paddy MAY be on to something? It's a complete hoot  IMO....

[flahute]

33 minutes ago, Ambernecter said:

Hah! How amazing for me to be free of Facebook etc but to feel the need to return to the "SB cult"!

In just several days I've caught up on so much info and opinions it could make my head spin - like one pour o f GTS too many! Jokes apart,, the replies are most appreciated and valued.

Sean Bond having to order from abroad for his special pour? Takes me right back to the early days of my love affair with this lovely spirit! 

Haha, I suppose we are a cult here, but what I was referring to is what we jokingly call the Four Roses Cult. And that's all I'll say about that so as not to bring any more attention to it.

[kcgumbohead]

14 hours ago, flahute said:

Haha, I suppose we are a cult here, but what I was referring to is what we jokingly call the Four Roses Cult. And that's all I'll say about that so as not to bring any more attention to it.

Steve, I was reading this thread and was about to post but was on the fence about clarifying for the very reason you pointed out just when you pointed it out!!. Returning to radio silence LOL!! And Philip welcome back!!

[Ambernecter]

On 22 January 2016 at 15:33:06, kcgumbohead said:

Steve, I was reading this thread and was about to post but was on the fence about clarifying for the very reason you pointed out just when you pointed it out!!. Returning to radio silence LOL!! And Philip welcome back!!

Well, Four Roses is my little brother's fave Whiskey of all time. He'd  be pleased there's an exclusive cult in its honour!

Enjoy the weekend (with a nice drop of something nice) guys!

[Ambernecter]

Oh and "mum's the word" ref any cultish goings on around these here parts!