When did HH stop using SW distillate in Old Fitz 1849?

[hicksonj]

HH released 8-yr aged-stated 90-proof Old Fitz 1849 until at-least 1999 that (i) bears the "1970 SWD" copyright, (ii) bears the HH sku, and (iii) doesn't bear the "charcoal filtered" statement from the later 1990s. Obviously I'm looking at an example of one such bottle. SW shuttered in 1992, which makes it a viable distillate source for these bottlings, but IIRC Bernheim was acquired by HH in the Spring of 1999. I suspect the sourcing chaos after the fire makes this even more blurry, and that the answer to this question is "can't be sure" or "it's complicated," but here we go . . . Can anybody shine some some light on when HH stop using SW distillate in Old Fitz 1849?

[Josh]

Nobody's answered yet so I'll take a stab at it. If I get it wrong, I'm sure somebody will correct me since that's what we do here.

No definite answer, but I think they probably stopped using shortly after they got the brand, if they ever used it in significant amounts. There's little upside for them to keep putting old, high quality bourbon like that in a mid-shelf brand. They would have gotten plenty of Bernheim Old Fitz when they purchased the brand so that they wouldn't have to lean too heavily on their S-W stocks.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Josh

[hicksonj]

Thanks for your reply Josh. My understanding is that New Bernheim opened in 1992. So, in theory, UD could have been distilling a wheater at New Bernheim as early as January 1992. It is likely later when the stills began to run, but that's a whole other rabbit hole. Regardless, it seems UD was barrel bound until at least January 2000, at a minimum, for 8-year stock. So, my thinking is that anything pre-2000 is definitely not New Bernheim. If that's the case, HH had their hands tied on what barrels to use in 1999, unless I'm missing a third source for wheated whiskey that would have been available to HH at that time.

[Josh]

Spoiler

 

Some could have been distilled at Ancient Age, which did some contract distilling of wheated bourbon for UD in the 1980s. I'm not saying that no S-W ever made it in there, I'm just saying they probably switched over to Bernheim wheater as soon as they could and in large proportions. That is just a guess on my part, though. I don't have any inside information.

[jsrudd]

I think that its most likely that the sourcing of OF 1849 was similar to the OF BIB. The only DSP numbers used for OF BIB were DSP KY-16 (SW) and DSP KY-1 (Bernheim).  If HH was putting SW bourbon in OF BIB until the late 90s / very early 00s, it seems likely that OF 1849 would also have been SW distillate. 

[amg]

16 hours ago, jsrudd said:

I think that its most likely that the sourcing of OF 1849 was similar to the OF BIB. The only DSP numbers used for OF BIB were DSP KY-16 (SW) and DSP KY-1 (Bernheim).  If HH was putting SW bourbon in OF BIB until the late 90s / very early 00s, it seems likely that OF 1849 would also have been SW distillate. 

It's also known that they continued to use the DSP-KY-16 labels for a while after switching over. Producers are allowed to use up existing label stock after a change.

[Josh]

On 3/6/2016, 10:49:29, jsrudd said:

I think that its most likely that the sourcing of OF 1849 was similar to the OF BIB. The only DSP numbers used for OF BIB were DSP KY-16 (SW) and DSP KY-1 (Bernheim).  If HH was putting SW bourbon in OF BIB until the late 90s / very early 00s, it seems likely that OF 1849 would also have been SW distillate. 

BiBs are restricted as to where they can get their distillate. It has to be one distillery, one distiller, one production season. 1849 is not restricted in that way so they are free to use bourbon from any distillery in Kentucky and mix it together however they see fit.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Josh