Aging in Different States

[fenderbender4]

I know there are some reservations and regulatory issues in regards to where whiskey is aged, etc.  However, I know a bit about how scotch single malts and aging is kind of tied with the climate of Scotland, and Bourbon's aging effects are kind of seen through the lens of the climate/seasons of Kentucky.  I was just curious though, if people knew of companies taking advantage of, or experimenting with aging whiskeys in different states to maybe harness some of the different climates and variations in temperatures?  Like maybe in more kind of "moderate" places (those with rather constant temperatues, etc. throughout the year) age the whiskey longer/shorter, or like maybe age whiskey (like in MN) where it seems the swings between winter and spring are rather dramatic.

 

Just something I've been curious about.

[flahute]

Well, whiskey is distilled in every state of the Union currently except Hawaii it seems. See this: http://recenteats.blogspot.com/p/the-complete-list-of-american-whiskey.html

 

Kentucky has an ideal climate for again whiskey. Hot (and humid, this is important) summers, and cold winters. We know that bourbon is being aged in Western states, but the dry summers, though hot, require humidification to prevent too much evaporation. They haven't been at it long enough to produce an old enough product to compare with Kentucky's best so we don't yet know it's going to work. (A 5yr old bourbon aged in eastern Washington shows promise though). We know of a malt whiskey aged in Nebraska? Yes......It's not my thing but it gets good reviews for what it is. Westland is another malt whiskey aged in western Washington in a climate very similar to Scotland and though still pretty young, also shows promise. Historically, rye whiskey was aged in Maryland and Pennsylvania and was quite good. There's good whiskey (not bourbon by definition) coming out of Charbay in California. Tom's Foolery shows good promise in northern Ohio. 

 

Lots of good possibilities out there but none of them (to my knowledge) with enough age on them to really know how they stack up to prototypical maturely aged Kentucky bourbon. Though the boom is upon us in a serious way, it hasn't been happening long enough for these upstarts to have been around long enough. Some of them are close though.

[Harry in WashDC]

Well, Saz/BT owns A.Smith Bowman in Fredericksburg, VA.  ASB has been making bourbon in Virginia since the 1930s.  Nowadays, BT sends new make to Fredericksburg by tanker, and ASB redistills it, barrels it, and ages it in a huge brick warehouse behind the stillroom.  Supposedly, there is a mezzanine in the storage space where honey barrels occur regularly.  ANYWAY, you could SBS Virginia Gentleman with BT (personally, I prefer BT) OR VG with Old Charter 80 proof.  Offhand I don't know anybody seriously moving barrels around to experiement.

[Canarse]

Seeing that KY has a couple hundred years of experience aging whiskey, they have a pretty big head start on most other states.  I'm sure very good whiskey can be made in most states, but it's going to take time to figure out the best way to age whiskey in each state.

 

 

[Flyfish]

Sounds like another experimental project for BT. They could sell 375s for $60 and ask members of their Beta Testing Team (i.e., us) to guess which galaxy the bourbon was  barreled in.

[fenderbender4]

3 hours ago, Flyfish said:

Sounds like another experimental project for BT. They could sell 375s for $60 and ask members of their Beta Testing Team (i.e., us) to guess which galaxy the bourbon was  barreled in.

 

Haha, yeah.  I was thinking more along the lines of already established distilleries, etc. experimenting with aging their barrels in different places for different amounts of time.  Probably way too much investment for a kind of lark.  Maybe they could shoot some out into orbit next time a satellite goes up (haha).

[flahute]

2 hours ago, fenderbender4 said:

 

Haha, yeah.  I was thinking more along the lines of already established distilleries, etc. experimenting with aging their barrels in different places for different amounts of time.  Probably way too much investment for a kind of lark.  Maybe they could shoot some out into orbit next time a satellite goes up (haha).

Actually.......this has already happened. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-34168471 (whisky aged in space).

There is also Jefferson's aging barrels at sea.

 

Not aware of any others that haven't been mentioned already.

[Canarse]

FYI, the Jefferson's aging at sea is a copy of Kelt XO Tour du Monde.  Not new.

[squire]

22 hours ago, fenderbender4 said:

. . . .  I was just curious though, if people knew of companies taking advantage of, or experimenting with aging whiskeys in different states to maybe harness some of the different climates and variations in temperatures?  . . . .

 

Back in the early 1970s when I toured Brown Forman they were very candid about the fact they aged Early Times for two years in Kentucky and then shipped it to Indiana to finish aging because taxes were cheaper there.

 

If a distiller were to trumpet the fact they aged product elsewhere and got a better result that would rather diminish the image of their regular brand.  "Look Ethel, this is the Florida aged Old Forester, everybody knows that's better than the Kentucky stuff".  Don't think that's the sort of image majors wish to project.

 

Every day we make it, we make it the best we can and all that.

 

 

Edited May 11, 2016 by squire

[Flyfish]

Several "different" bourbons can all start out as the exact same juice and acquire their distinctive characteristics based on where they are in the rick house and how long they spend there. What happens to the predictability of the end product if it spends some of its time in KY and some in IN or NV (for a hotter, drier bourbon so to speak)?  Or, theoretically, what would you get by shuffling around the barrels among different warehouses at the same distillery? How about a solera bourbon that trickled down from the top tier to the bottom over the course of 8 or 10 years? Just askin'.

[PaulO]

The USDA has a map of the country divided into zones according to climate.  KY and the Southern part of IN are in the same zone.  The most Southern part of IN has things like Pecan trees and Cypress, that aren't usually in other parts of the state.  

[Flyfish]

14 hours ago, PaulO said:

The USDA has a map of the country divided into zones according to climate.  KY and the Southern part of IN are in the same zone.  The most Southern part of IN has things like Pecan trees and Cypress, that aren't usually in other parts of the state.  

True. Very useful for planting trees and tender annuals. But my point was that the "climate" varies every 10 feet in a rick house. You can feel the difference as you walk through.  If ER10 comes from the middle of the lower two floors on the west side of the warehouse in Frankfort, how would you find the equivalent of that in IN if you wanted to age your ER10 there? It is not ER10 just because of the mash bill (which it shares with other bourbons) but also, and at least as importantly, because of where it rests for 10 years.

[PaulO]

Yes, different locations in the same building can give different results, particularly when aged for more years.  Even two barrels next to one another might not be exactly the same.  

[tanstaafl2]

53 minutes ago, Flyfish said:

True. Very useful for planting trees and tender annuals. But my point was that the "climate" varies every 10 feet in a rick house. You can feel the difference as you walk through.  If ER10 comes from the middle of the lower two floors on the west side of the warehouse in Frankfort, how would you find the equivalent of that in IN if you wanted to age your ER10 there? It is not ER10 just because of the mash bill (which it shares with other bourbons) but also, and at least as importantly, because of where it rests for 10 years.

 

Probably the way blenders/master distillers always do. They would start with the ER profile in mind and taste barrels from all parts of the rickhouse to find those barrels that meet the profile. Maybe in the new Rickhouse that is a floor higher or a different side. And then they know for the future what part of that particular warehouse tends to give them the barrels they are looking for.

[B.B. Babington]

On ‎5‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 8:31 AM, Canarse said:

Seeing that KY has a couple hundred years of experience aging whiskey, they have a pretty big head start on most other states...

 

Hey wait.  Us guys in the east were doing it too.  Kentucky is just famous 'cause their export went down the Ohio.

[Flyfish]

20 hours ago, tanstaafl2 said:

 

Probably the way blenders/master distillers always do. They would start with the ER profile in mind and taste barrels from all parts of the rickhouse to find those barrels that meet the profile. Maybe in the new Rickhouse that is a floor higher or a different side. And then they know for the future what part of that particular warehouse tends to give them the barrels they are looking for.

Fantastic! Where do we apply for the job to go treasure hunting in a rick house? Popping thousands of bungs. Nope, that ain't it. I'll just have to keep looking. This one seems close. Not quite sure. Will have to sample again. And again. Of course, the search would be limited to 10YO barrels--unless I misread the stencil on a cask or two. Even so, the search could keep me busy long enough for some of the 9YO to become 10YO.  

Seriously, though, the more you consider this issue the more you have to respect the master distiller and his team of tasters. It can be hard enough to identify a barrel of what is or was a single barrel bourbon aged in a familiar location. What if you had to tell yourself, this would be perfect as 5% of the batch of Old Guessingame we are about to mingle?

Edited May 14, 2016 by Flyfish