A little price perspective

[Thig]

I came from a world of mostly wine and port wine but have been drinking bourbon for about 4 years now. I guess if you have been drinking bourbon for many years the prices now are through the roof in a lot of cases, but from someone that drank mostly wine, bourbon seems like a terrific bargain most of the time.

A nice bottle of wine might cost $30 or $40 dollars and I have many bottles of port that cost upwards of $100. They are usually consumed at a single meal or perhaps within a day or two at the most. To buy a bottle of bourbon for $60 or $80 that will most likely last 2 or 3 weeks even if that is all I am drinking doesn't seem like such a bad deal.

I don't want to pay any more than I have to either, but I just don't get all the anger over paying $30 dollars or so for a nice mid-shelf bourbon.

[jvd99]

Compared to scotch, bourbon is an incredible bargain.  I don't think people are mad about paying $30 for a $30 bourbon, they get mad when the $30 bourbon is priced at $60

[Thig]

I guess that's the part I don't get. Let's say Henry McKenna Bib cost $50, which it doesn't, that would still be a bargain compared to wine.

[jvd99]

Yeah, but a $30,000 Ford Fiesta is a bargain vs. a luxury Euro sedan but no one would buy it because it was marked up 100%.  I see your point, but for the bourbon customer, you have to consider value, not just price. (The Cubs are killing me!!! - I may get a little argumentative)

[Darwin]

Try a nice bottle of Mogen David for $30.  I think there are over priced expressions in every wine and spirits category.  Research is a must before purchasing unknown items.

[Richnimrod]

I think a good deal of the anger and frustration with Bourbon prices stems from seeing the costs go so rapidly upward (within a few years, the cost of some brands has increased more than 40 percent in my area).    This coupled with the relatively stable prices of most other items, not to mention the pretty sudden difficulty of sourcing many brands that were fairly easy to find only a few years ago (or even only a few months for some), has given rise to a great deal of angst, especially among Bourbon aficionados of long standing.   All this is life-altering, and out of the control of most of us.     ...Thus we're getting a little pissy about it!    ...Just MHO.

Edited October 30, 2016 by Richnimrod
Clarity

[portwood]

American Whiskey in general, and Bourbon in particular, seems to be getting very expensive NOT relative to other drinks but to its past.

 

Bourbon was so cheap in the past relative to Scotch, wine, etc that more and more people started buying it due to its quality/price. Now that demand has increased, the Bourbon industry is merely catching up!

 

Old timers think prices are ridiculous, whereas newbs think its still a "bargain" to pay $100 for a 'limited edition" Bourbon when similarly "limited edition" Scotch sell for twice or more ...

[Flyfish]

Saw Glenmorangie finished in Sauterne casks for $100. Given the trend toward finishing spirits in used barrels, I'm waiting for some clever fellow to finish 4YO bourbon for a few more months in used bourbon barrels. If used bourbon barrels make Scotch taste better, think what they could do for bourbon. Especially if you claimed your Old Crow was finished in Pappy barrels. Should bring at least $80-90. 

[garbanzobean]

My perspective is that getting punched in the face twice instead of six times, while an improvement, still isn't much fun.  Historically, great bourbon has been available to everyone at just about every price point.  Anyone who can afford to drink alcohol can afford to drink bourbon--much of it world class.  Even in the $10-$15 per 750ml range.  Increasingly, this is not the case.  The market is going premium.  Quality was going down on the lower end, though recently seems to be improving for many the lower mid range brands that survived the culling, as supply finally begins to catch up.

 

As someone who is conditioned to obscene price gouging due to a hot market in certain wines, I can see why low increases (in terms of absolute cost, not relative) probably would not bother you.  Pretend your alcohol budget is $40 per month though, and your favorite bourbon--OGD 114 for example--just jumped from $24 to $37, like it did for my friend in the panhandle of FL.  That's a pretty big F*ck you to people without a lot of disposable income who still want a nice whiskey for special occasions.  In contrast, most SBers can afford to pay a little more, but that doesn't mean we should tolerate rapid price increases along with quality decreases of our favorite brands. 

 

Taken from another perspective, less picky drinkers with plenty of disposable income have lots of other options in the new premiumized bourbon markets.  If the average bottle of good bourbon jumps to $50 and LEs to $100+, now you're in a price category with a lot of QPR knockouts in scotch, rum, and brandy.  For every ridiculous $300 Highland Park expression that comes with its own miniature Viking Boat or whatever (or the corresponding silly LE cognacs), there are expressions like Talisker 18 for $79 (or Delord Armagnac 25 for about the same).  Not everybody thinks Booker's Rye is a huge waste of money at $300, but I certainly do.  If everyday expressions of cheap to produce and easy to replace bourbon take a corresponding price jump, I won't buy them, and I'm pretty sure an entire market segment will do the same.

[FacePlant]

19 hours ago, jvd99 said:

Compared to scotch, bourbon is an incredible bargain.  I don't think people are mad about paying $30 for a $30 bourbon, they get mad when the $30 bourbon is priced at $60

Amen, after decades of getting priced out of Scotch I'm glad the profits are staying home.

6 hours ago, portwood said:

American Whiskey in general, and Bourbon in particular, seems to be getting very expensive NOT relative to other drinks but to its past.

 

Bourbon was so cheap in the past relative to Scotch, wine, etc that more and more people started buying it due to its quality/price. Now that demand has increased, the Bourbon industry is merely catching up!

 

I love quality whiskey priced down as much as anyone BUT American bourbon seems priced fairly. In the past many greats went bankrupt as the world turned up their noses. Now for some reason everyone is waking up to the fact we're making the best whiskey ever, and we're making it in America. 

I hope, along with my bourbon brother 'n it stays affordable and wonderful.

[jsrudd]

On 10/30/2016 at 10:43 AM, Thig said:

A nice bottle of wine might cost $30 or $40 dollars and I have many bottles of port that cost upwards of $100. They are usually consumed at a single meal or perhaps within a day or two at the most. To buy a bottle of bourbon for $60 or $80 that will most likely last 2 or 3 weeks even if that is all I am drinking doesn't seem like such a bad deal.

For me, the fact that bourbon is a relative bargain is better illustrated with on a per drink basis.

 

Assuming that there are sixteen pours per bottle of bourbon and six glasses per bottle of wine, a single $30 bottle of bourbon is equivalent (on a per drink basis) to a little less than three $11 bottles of wine. At that price point, I would much rather drink bourbon than wine. 

 

 

  

[miller542]

11 hours ago, jsrudd said:

For me, the fact that bourbon is a relative bargain is better illustrated with on a per drink basis.

 

Assuming that there are sixteen pours per bottle of bourbon and six glasses per bottle of wine, a single $30 bottle of bourbon is equivalent (on a per drink basis) to a little less than three $11 bottles of wine. At that price point, I would much rather drink bourbon than wine. 

 

 

  

 

The problem is that $30 bottle today was $20 not too long ago and lost its age statement along the way.

 

I agree with garbanzobean, we don't have to tolerate rapid price increases along with quality decreases of our favorite brands.  The quality of the mid and bottom shelf is suffering as producers squeeze their inventory to meet demand and divert stocks to more limited edition offerings.

 

Yes, bourbon is still a decent value compared to other options, but today's market is testing the limits.  High-priced limiteds are sitting longer than ever, and its only a matter of time before the herd moves on.  The boom has likely created a new group of bourbon drinkers and a higher everyday price point for bourbon, but things will slow down.  Maybe not next week, maybe not next year, but things will slow down.  For many of us with well-stocked bunkers, it already has.  We're riding out this boom and will join back in once the quality, and therefore value, returns.

 

 

Edited October 31, 2016 by miller542

[Thig]

15 minutes ago, miller542 said:

 

Yes, bourbon is still a decent value compared to other options, but today's market is testing the limits.  High-priced limiteds are sitting longer than ever, and its only a matter of time before the herd moves on.  The boom has likely created a new group of bourbon drinkers and a higher everyday price point for bourbon, but things will slow down.  Maybe not next week, maybe not next year, but things will slow down.  For many of us with well-stocked bunkers, it already has.  We're riding out this boom and will join back in once the quality, and therefore value, returns.

 

 

 

In the end the market sets the price so yes it will come down when the supply goes up or the people are not willing to pay the higher cost.

[meadeweber]

On 10/30/2016 at 8:30 AM, Richnimrod said:

 difficulty of sourcing many brands that were fairly easy to find only a few years ago (or even only a few months for some)

 

Rich makes a good point.  You can't consider the pricing in a vacuum.  You also have to consider the ever increasing limited allocations which leads to difficulty in finding the brands we like.  Also, as miller542 reminded us, we are also losing age statements.

 

On 10/30/2016 at 5:45 PM, FacePlant said:

 

I love quality whiskey priced down as much as anyone BUT American bourbon seems priced fairly. In the past many greats went bankrupt as the world turned up their noses. Now for some reason everyone is waking up to the fact we're making the best whiskey ever, and we're making it in America. 

 

BUT,

I think FacePlant is right.  In my opinion, bourbon is actually priced fairly and more and more people have realized the favorable quality to price ratio. 

[dcbt]

I think bourbon is still inexpensive, considering the time, taxes, insurance, three tiers it must channel through, etc.  And I agree it stacks up especially well on a per-glass basis (or per proof-ounce). 

[VT Mike]

If you go back and look at prices from the 1940's, 50's and 60's and correct for inflation, the price of an "average" bourbon then was much higher than it is today. It is painful to see prices jumping up the way they have been lately, but in a historical perspective the prices are finally recovering from when they cratered in the 1970's and 80's. I dug up a bunch of old newspaper ads that showed retail bourbon prices to analyze the trend.

http://thewhiskeyroom.blogspot.com/2015/04/old-forester-signature.html