New to bourbon and a slight worry....

[Andy Mack]

Hi there

 

i posted in here a month or so ago, introducing myself to bourbon, recently joining the wonderful world of it

 

i purchased myself a couple of bottles of four roses yellow, eagle rare, Woodford reserve and makers mark - but only really opened the makers mark for a couple of old fashions (which I love)

 

-on Saturday night, I thought-you know what im gonna open each one and try some and compare them all and "test" my palette - so to speak.

 

Now I have been looking at whiskey reviews on YouTube and the actual product websites where it gives you info on the products and what they say the noses smell is and the tastes and the finish, so I was interested to know how my interpretation would be being a new bourbon drinker

 

now when I was trying each one - I must say 1 or 2 did smell(nose) differently but when I tried to detect the tastes - I must say all I tasted was "bourbon" - do you know what I mean? I couldn't reach any floral or Apple or the variety of notes which these reviews and the websites say is meant to come out when you try them!

 

i did take my time and gave myself plenty of breathing space to experience it, so I could get the effect but I just couldn't get any of the flavours at all - I must said the four roses had an nice crisp finish as opposed to the makers mark which was a smooth medium finish - so I hope I've got that right?

 

so I've been going through my head for a couple of days now - is it lack of experience that I'm getting nothing at the moment? Do I need to drink bourbon maybe every weekend like a sample so it improves my taste? Do I need to try a whiskey tasting session from an expert to

drink it "the right way"?

 

i would love some comments here and some help!

 

Thank you very much for reading and looking forward to hearing some feedback from some experts

 

Andy

[cwalker022]

Your just new. We all start there. I takes time to pick up on the nuances. I've been drinking bourbon for almost two years now and I'm just now picking up on the subtle flavors. I might be a slower learner though, and I've got a long way to go still. If you enjoy the taste, keep drinking and you'll get there.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Harry in WashDC]

Andy -  Don't worry too much about not being able to taste all the things the product websites tell you are in there.  They are touting their product and are unlikely to say, "Tastes like dirty sweatsocks soaked in sauerkraut juice".  PLUS, everybody's taste buds work differently so where I taste apple, you may taste leather (or kind of dried apple).  AND, you are correct that practice AND avoiding sensory overload, like having five or six different and hefty swallows one after the other may teach you how to tease out flavors.

 

Keep at it, and if all you get is, "On the whole, I like this but can't tell what the individual flavors are," well, then, on the whole, YOU have a winner, don't you.

 

4R YL vs. MM?  Well, 4R YL is a rye bourbon (that is, corn is the main grain, and rye is the lesser) while MM is a wheated bourbon (that is, wheat is the lesser).  Rye-forwards tend to be spicy while wheat forwards tend to be smooth, almost "homogenized".  There's no right or wrong, just an "is".

 

IN SUM, you are well on your way to "getting" it. 

[flahute]

Don't sweat it. I've been drinking bourbon for almost twenty years (only four at the enthusiast level) and I miss a lot of those flavors too. All that really matters is if you think it's good.

[Andy Mack]

Thanks for all your replies guys,

 

yeah it's strange - I'm 29 now and when I was younger if I tasted bourbon (or any spirit straight really) I used to hate it and think god how can people drink this! - but I think age does mature you (not to sound obvious) and  it changes you 

 

I do enjoy drinking it, and I love the whole thing around it, love displaying the great looking bottles and when people come around to the house, who only class American whiskey as jack Daniels and  come and look and are intrigued by the great looking bottles

 

i will keep on and hope something clicks eventually  ???? 

 

I must say I do like the four roses especially - i can see why they say it's a great beginner bourbon - and I've heard basil hayden is too so I might have to get that one next to add my collection 

 

thanks guys again

Andy

[Jace]

Gotta start somewhere. 

 

Did you use ice? And what kind of glass did you use?

 

Also, instead of starting off with multiple bourbons, I found, back when I got into it, that it's easier to familiarize yourself with one bottle, and go slowly from there.
Maybe start  by chatting up Miss Roses for a couple of hours, or nights. And when you feel safe with her, and feel like you can taste her just by smelling her, or by looking at that curvy bottle of hers, you go behind her back and try something else, something different. 

[Andy Mack]

4 hours ago, Jace said:

Gotta start somewhere. 

 

Did you use ice? And what kind of glass did you use?

 

Also, instead of starting off with multiple bourbons, I found, back when I got into it, that it's easier to familiarize yourself with one bottle, and go slowly from there.
Maybe start  by chatting up Miss Roses for a couple of hours, or nights. And when you feel safe with her, and feel like you can taste her just by smelling her, or by looking at that curvy bottle of hers, you go behind her back and try something else, something different. 

 

 

I did use a glencairn glass, and I did use no ice - just straight.

 

by the end I eventually added a touch of water to open it up as I've heard that helps, but it just lowered the proof so it wasn't such a strong flavour - but still didn't get any notes 

 

Yeah I will stick at just four roses and see how I go? And i love the way you described the process 

Edited November 15, 2016 by Andy Mack

[Thig]

I understand what you're saying and to be honest I take most of these tasting notes with a grain of salt. I have been drinking wine for a long time and bourbon for a few years and still can really pick up only two differences. The burn and the sweetness or lack there of.

I can easily tell the difference between a bourbon, a malt and an Irish whiskey. But when it comes to comparing bourbons it is usually just one burns more than the other or one is sweeter than the other.

[BottledInBond]

I have been drinking American whiskey steadily for about 18 years, and I don't think I could write an elaborate review / tasting notes to save my life. That doesn't mean I'm not super opinionated about what I think is good or bad because I am. I do think that when I read a quality review I can see some of what the author was saying, but we all have different palettes, and there are other factors like how long a bottle has been open, what you ate that day, etc. 

 

The 4 things I always tell my friends  are:

 

1- dont be afraid to just smell a pour for a while before drinking it, and consider not inhaling through your nose. If you put your nose over the glass but instead inhale through your mouth, you might find that you get a clearer experience of the specific aroma of the whiskey, without the alcohol Heat dominating everything. This can make a big difference for some people.

 

2- try to limit the number of variables between the whiskers you compare somewhat. By that I mean if you want to compare whiskeys to identify differences, take two from the same distillery that are different ages or different proofs, so you can start to figure out which of those variables you like better so you can start to narrow down what you like and why you like it. I think a lot of people just grab a random selection of bottles with too many variables in the mix at once to arrive at many conclusions

 

3- if you can, try to sample things "blind". We are all biased in some ways, and it is easy to make decisions about stuff before even tasting them based on other people's opinions, packaging, age statements, price, etc. Drink a glass of whiskey without any of that affecting you, and give your honest assessment, and then reveal what it is. I can't tell you how many times I've had friends try two whiskeys blind and had them pick a much cheaper pour over a very expensive pour

 

4- have fun with the experiences! This includes ignoring junk on the Internet and opinions from people like me that may be unsolicited. It's abou you and your glass and hopefully some friends or family to share a good pour with once in a while, and it doesn't really need to be any more complicated.

 

 

cheers!

Edited November 15, 2016 by BottledInBond

[Swoboda]

1 hour ago, BottledInBond said:

1- dont be afraid to just smell a pour for a while before drinking it, and consider not inhaling through your nose. If you put your nose over the glass but instead inhale through your mouth, you might find that you get a clearer experience of the specific aroma of the whiskey, without the alcohol Heat dominating everything. This can make a big difference for some people.

 

This is solid advice and explained well.  I've tried to describe this to others with varying success . . . takes some practice.

[Clueby]

8 minutes ago, Swoboda said:

 

This is solid advice and explained well.  I've tried to describe this to others with varying success . . . takes some practice.

I first learned the "breathing through your mouth with nose over the spirit" at a tequila tasting event.  I was astounded at being able to "taste" the tequila in this manner before drinking it. 

[BDanner]

When starting out, I could tell you if I liked something or not, but couldn't really pinpoint any tasting notes other than vanilla and caramel. It took about 6 months for me to be able to really pick nuances on the nose and palate. Dried fruit, hay, leather, dry roasted peanuts, wood, tobacco, floral, etc. Not all at once, but little by little, pour after pour. Once it clicked it really enhanced my enjoyment. There are still notes that I'm puzzled by and can almost identify, but not quite. It dangles just out of reach, and puzzling those out is a big part of the enjoyment for me. I also began to identify certain tasting notes by distillery or mash bill. I may taste something blind and go "not sure what it is, but I know it was made by Beam/Wild Turkey/Heaven Hill, etc." The enjoyment is in the journey. You will get there so take time to smell the "Roses". 

Edited November 15, 2016 by BDanner

[Andy Mack]

3 hours ago, BDanner said:

When starting out, I could tell you if I liked something or not, but couldn't really pinpoint any tasting notes other than vanilla and caramel. It took about 6 months for me to be able to really pick nuances on the nose and palate. Dried fruit, hay, leather, dry roasted peanuts, wood, tobacco, floral, etc. Not all at once, but little by little, pour after pour. Once it clicked it really enhanced my enjoyment. There are still notes that I'm puzzled by and can almost identify, but not quite. It dangles just out of reach, and puzzling those out is a big part of the enjoyment for me. I also began to identify certain tasting notes by distillery or mash bill. I may taste something blind and go "not sure what it is, but I know it was made by Beam/Wild Turkey/Heaven Hill, etc." The enjoyment is in the journey. You will get there so take time to smell the "Roses". 

 

 

The first few lines when you described about knowing that you liked it but only really smelling the oak and the vanilla - you have hit the nail on the head with me!

 

As I mentioned in my initial post - I tried Four Roses, Makers Mark, Woodford Reserve and Eagle Rare and where I did enjoy them all, I didn't get any specific notes - but...I did enjoy them all - and from

what you describe I hope it's just time for me that it will eventually come to me

 

thanks everyone so much for your replies and putting my mind at rest as on Saturday when I was sampling my new bourbon I was thinking - I'm concentrating on the various ones and all I smell is strong alcohol and a scent of vanilla - where is the floral notes, and the buttery notes etc - so I'm pleased everyone has put my mind at rest!

 

Cheers everyone! 

 

ps I have uploaded a pic of my small collection - hope in years to come it will

grow!

[skiwez2]

also to throw in another fun variable, is that your taste will change over time for any random reasons. this weekend for example was on a plane coming home and the stewardess gave me a free woodford reserve. one of those small 50 mil travel shots. Tasted like the greatest bourbon ever. While in the past I thought is was ok nothing great, but yesterday I tasted a thick rich caramel, vanilla a tiny bit char. can't explain why there was such a big difference but that is what makes this hobby so great. Every once in a while it will just click and when that happens just sit back and enjoy.

[Paddy]

I'd recommend a review of the archives.  There are virtual blind tastings on just about every domestic brand made.  Pick a pour, find the appropriate old VBT thread for said pour, and see if you can follow the notes.  With this as a guide, I'd be very surprised if one couldn't pick up on some of the nuances of the whiskey. 

[Queball]

This book was very helpful to me in picking out aromas and flavors:

 

Bourbon curious : a simple tasting guide for the savvy drinker, by Fred Minnick. I don't know if it's available at your local library, but bookstores probably would have it. If not, there's always Amazon.

 

It will provide you with a guide to the various bourbons and what to look for in them. For instance, Larceny (a wheated bourbon) has a very floral nose. So you'd look for what scents are in there. I find rose pedals, magnolia, and other floral notes. 

 

Anyway, the book will give you a good primer on bourbon aromas and tastes, which in time, you'll be able to expand upon.

 

Dean

[Andy Mack]

On 16/11/2016 at 2:39 AM, Queball said:

This book was very helpful to me in picking out aromas and flavors:

 

Bourbon curious : a simple tasting guide for the savvy drinker, by Fred Minnick. I don't know if it's available at your local library, but bookstores probably would have it. If not, there's always Amazon.

 

It will provide you with a guide to the various bourbons and what to look for in them. For instance, Larceny (a wheated bourbon) has a very floral nose. So you'd look for what scents are in there. I find rose pedals, magnolia, and other floral notes. 

 

Anyway, the book will give you a good primer on bourbon aromas and tastes, which in time, you'll be able to expand upon.

 

Dean

That looks a real interesting book, thank you for bringing it to my attention

[BDanner]

On 11/15/2016 at 8:57 PM, skiwez2 said:

also to throw in another fun variable, is that your taste will change over time for any random reasons. this weekend for example was on a plane coming home and the stewardess gave me a free woodford reserve. one of those small 50 mil travel shots. Tasted like the greatest bourbon ever. While in the past I thought is was ok nothing great, but yesterday I tasted a thick rich caramel, vanilla a tiny bit char. can't explain why there was such a big difference but that is what makes this hobby so great. Every once in a while it will just click and when that happens just sit back and enjoy.

I've experienced the same thing with Woodford 50's. I've had some that made me think I'd never buy anything but Woodford ever again, and then I get some that make me think I'll never buy Woodford again. For this reason I'm really gun shy about purchasing a full bottle. 

[Flyfish]

On 11/15/2016 at 9:39 PM, Queball said:

This book was very helpful to me in picking out aromas and flavors:

 

Bourbon curious : a simple tasting guide for the savvy drinker, by Fred Minnick. I don't know if it's available at your local library, but bookstores probably would have it. If not, there's always Amazon.

 

It will provide you with a guide to the various bourbons and what to look for in them. For instance, Larceny (a wheated bourbon) has a very floral nose. So you'd look for what scents are in there. I find rose pedals, magnolia, and other floral notes. 

 

Anyway, the book will give you a good primer on bourbon aromas and tastes, which in time, you'll be able to expand upon.

 

Dean

Nosing and tasting bourbon is a two-part process: First, you have to be able to detect an often subtle aroma or taste; second, you have to be able to come up with a name for it. Even veteran bourbon lovers have the experience of noticing something on the back of the palate or in the finish but then struggle to come up with what to call it. Really good reviewers have mastered both parts of the process. You have to admire them.  My father was on a brown and white diet--he would only eat things that were brown or white. So, there were hundreds or even thousands of tastes that he could not identify because he had never experienced them. He hated food with flavor in it. Some bourbons lack subtlety--what you might call "one trick ponies." It is a waste of time to look for what ain't there. But you can enjoy them for what they are.  Some bourbons offer a rick tapestry of nuances that can keep you occupied tasting all evening long. Some newbies jump right to the top shelf bourbons before they are prepared by experience to appreciate what is right under their noses. Patience, Grasshopper. Patience.

[Harry in WashDC]

Hey, Andy - less than two weeks since you joined, and already you've engaged in an in-depth conversation on bourbon appreciation and contributed your fair share.  Welcome, indeed, to this mystery of life called bourbon.  I look forward to your comments in the future.  Some of old folks get lazy - keep us young and active -- PLEASE.  

[Andy Mack]

On 28/11/2016 at 2:16 AM, Harry in WashDC said:

Hey, Andy - less than two weeks since you joined, and already you've engaged in an in-depth conversation on bourbon appreciation and contributed your fair share.  Welcome, indeed, to this mystery of life called bourbon.  I look forward to your comments in the future.  Some of old folks get lazy - keep us young and active -- PLEASE.  

 

Thank you, I appreciate that

 

Its only been a few weeks since I posted that initial thread and I must say I do feel a bit more relaxed about the situation

 

Most Friday and Saturday evenings after my dinner has gone down I have poured myself a bourbon or two and i don't know what it is - it just feels nice.

 

I still not necessarily smell the various "notes" in the bourbons I have been having, but I am enjoying it

 

At the start I was real concerned - shall I drink it neat or with a bit of ice? well its become evident that I like it in a tumbler with about 2 pieces of ice - i know a lot of people have it straight with no ice, but I have heard from people, drink it how YOU drink it - so i am!

 

This might be a bit controversial as I know its not a bourbon, but I even bought a cheap bottle of JD no.7 (supermarkets selling cheap for the xmas period) - and I actually enjoyed it!! - I know my tastebuds are maturing as when I was younger - I wouldn't even try JD (or any whiskey or spirit) straight - so as I have gotten older, I am most likely reaping the benefits

 

Problems are now becoming apparent - I am running out of space where to put my bottles of bourbon! its looking very crammed already and ive just got the 5 bottles!

[MTNBourbon]

Yeah, with some more experience, it might be different, but don't worry about it. As long as you enjoy what your drinking, that is all that matters.

[Guinny_Ire]

What is your availability of Bourbons in Hull? I was about to ramble off some lower price bourbons to try and realized you might not have them available.  Also, what did you drink before moving into Bourbon?

[mbroo5880i]

Your experience sounds no different than most of ours.  Most first experiences with bourbon or any whiskey for that matter are often not favorable (e.g., burned when it went down, gave me a headache, it made me sick, etc.).  When I was younger (college), drinking whiskey meant pounding JD almost to the point of getting sick.  Those experiences pointed me toward mixed drinks or beer.  However, eventually as you tire of the same old things and develop a more mature attitude toward spirits, interest turns to higher level spirits (e.g., whiskey, rum, wine).  Many times cocktails serve as the gateway to straight whiskeys.  I notice you have the fixins' for Manhattans.  My first forays into straight bourbon and rye was through Manhattans.  I found them too sweet.  So, I started drinking whiskey on the rocks and then eventually transitioned to drinking them neat or with a little water.  Thus, the journey began.  

 

As Steve (flahute) mentioned above, don't worry about being able to taste all of the flavors and nuances others describe.  The main criteria is do you enjoy it.  Once you determine that you will be able to establish why and how it is different from other whiskeys you try.  As much as we try, in blind tastings, many of us still struggle to different what would seem to be obvious characteristics of whiskeys (e.g., wheat v. rye bourbon, high rye bourbon v. low rye bourbon).  

 

One thing that may help you better understand some difference and your preferences is to sample different types of whiskeys (e.g, bourbon, scotch, irish, rye).  You will begin to see (taste) some of the subtle differences.

 

Enjoy your journey!

 

 

[MeAndMyWhiskey]

Great post and great replies. Good advice all around. My 2 cents are that your initial observation is an important one: there is a very common set of "bourbon" qualities. For me, most of my tasting notes implicitly start with, "this smells and tastes like bourbon". Now, having said that, here are the facets of that set of bourbon qualities that jump out to me more in this bourbon than another bourbon. Someone used the word "nuance", which is appropriate, I think. My wife chuckles when I say I like the "nuances" of what she considers "jet fuel" but as we spend more time with this narrow class of spirit, we find what we like. And, for me, what I like (or even what I perceive) varies from night to night, from drink to drink. We joyfully welcome you to our obsession.  And, as you can tell from all of the replies you've generated, you are among (similarly crazy) friends.