Knob Creek 9yr and NAS labels

[Harry in WashDC]

On the Beam pricing thread re: Booker's, I noted that I'd seen my first advert with the Knob Creek NAS label - a glass of whiskey sat in front of where the age statement used to be.  Today, I saw my first NAS KC in the wild, lined up next to a row of 9YR bottles.  Here are pictures - note that the label is otherwise unchanged.  Presuming you care about age vs. NAS, feel free to print the pics and carry them in your pocket.  OR, use them for desktop background.  OR give them as gifts.

 

(As you can tell from the tone of this post, the NAS KC goes down REALLY smoothly.)

 

AND, I can still find KC 9YR for $23 plus tax "on sale" everywhere in WashDC although a few places have started dropping "on sale" and selling it for $25-28.

 

EDIT - Just pulled up my own post to see how it looked and noticed that the 9YR appears to be darker.  The bottles are sitting against a kitchen wall with LED under-cabinet lights (a whole string) illuminating them.  I swapped their places, and the 9YR is definitely darker.  Haven't tasted that particular one.  Not sure I have the stamina this early in the evening to keep drinking and reporting accurately.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Harry in WashDC

[mbroo5880i]

While the loss of age statements can be a predictor of change, I have found this change to occasionally be a positive.  While a fan of EC 12, I much prefer EC NAS.  EC 12 was occasionally too woody.  My preferred age range is 8 to 10 years.

 

KC NAS has been in Indy for a while.  As long as they maintain the KC profile, I will be happy. KC has long been one of my favorites. Time will tell how this change will affect the brand.

[Limegoldconvertible68]

I hate losing age statements. But these are big businesses that know their marketing. Its been my experience that the first batch after dropping the statement is actually tastier than the original.   It stands to reason that the age is dropped before the quality decreases. What happens afterwards remains to be seen but nevertheless there is a reason for dropping the age statement should appear soon. 

[Whiskey Dick]

saw my first NAS KC in KY last weekend. I generally like KC, but it does push the limits of my oak tolerance. It might be better at eight years, who knows. I did, however, buy 4 750's of 9 year in case they totally ruined it.

[Prof_Stack]

I had a shot, neat, of KC nine-year, and sipped it slowly, over an hour.  Tonight it seemed to have more oak character than I currently like.  So, I'd like to try the newer KC, and see if it is better in this regard.

[flahute]

The Total Wine I was in this morning was plum out of the KC in 750's. I presume they must have been the age stated ones that formerly occupied the empty spot on the shelf by the price tag. They had NAS 1L's but still had an age stated 1.75L so that came home with me.

[jeffrey r]

I have no doubt that they will maintain the KC profile. I mean, they've been pulling thousands upon thousands of barrels for KC for years, and I am sure they will continue to do that for many years to come. But if they saw fit for those many years to pull minimum 9 year barrels, and now they can choose some 8 year barrels, or 7 year barrels, or whatever else, then the overall character may change, even though it will surely taste like KC.

Personally, I like the current character of KC, so I have recently stocked up on several bottles of the 9 year KC (as I've mentioned in other threads, I've been buying the gift sets with the rocks glasses). I just don't remember a time in many different cases where a lost age statement has turned out to be a positive for me.

[portwood]

11 hours ago, Limegoldconvertible68 said:

I hate losing age statements. But these are big businesses that know their marketing. Its been my experience that the first batch after dropping the statement is actually tastier than the original.   It stands to reason that the age is dropped before the quality decreases. What happens afterwards remains to be seen but nevertheless there is a reason for dropping the age statement should appear soon. 

 

This is true of every brand that makes a change. Keep the quality high during the transition period to avoid the regular buyers heading for the exit...

The true impact of the change on the quality of the product can only be measured years later ... and even then, the older product can't really be compared to the newer one (who knows what time and environmental factors do to whisky sitting in a glass bottle?)

[smokinjoe]

2 hours ago, portwood said:

 

This is true of every brand that makes a change. Keep the quality high during the transition period to avoid the regular buyers heading for the exit...

The true impact of the change on the quality of the product can only be measured years later ... and even then, the older product can't really be compared to the newer one (who knows what time and environmental factors do to whisky sitting in a glass bottle?)

Certainly reasonable and probably correct.  Where it gets even trickier, is determining whether or not the quality of the original product had degraded over time prior to the change, thus making the comparison one between new label and last iterations, or new label and intended iteration...

[Prof_Stack]

There are some comparisons here to the big macro-breweries which continue to make pee-water beer and then market the crap out of it to tell the hipsters that beer should taste like that.  Which is one reason that craft breweries continue to pop up.  And they don't have to wait 2 or more years to bottle and sell their stuff.

[mbroo5880i]

3 hours ago, smokinjoe said:

Certainly reasonable and probably correct.  Where it gets even trickier, is determining whether or not the quality of the original product had degraded over time prior to the change, thus making the comparison one between new label and last iterations, or new label and intended iteration...

 

Very good point that probably gets overlooked by many.  You would have to think that when demand outstrips supply quality has to be affected.  This probably occurs well before a change in the product, like age statement occurs.  I don't know the sales numbers for Beam's product lines but I wonder if stocks intended for standard Beam or higher end Beam brands gets diverted to the "small batch" line where previously only the higher quality or dedicated barrels did.  Do they typically dedicate barrels from an early age for different product lines or does sampling during maturation factor in?

 

Similar to JR, I am seeing a lot of KC 9 yr gift sets with the whiskey glasses.  I am seeing them at grocery stores so I will watch to see if they go on sale right after Christmas.  Even, at $27, they are cheaper than the bottles alone.  The glasses are pretty cool too.

 

 

[flahute]

23 minutes ago, mbroo5880i said:

Do they typically dedicate barrels from an early age for different product lines or does sampling during maturation factor in?

 

 

Barrels are placed in particular warehouses and in particular places in those warehouses according to what they want them to end up being. Sampling along the way finds particular barrels that are performing differently than expected so those barrels can end up as different products. 

[mbroo5880i]

16 minutes ago, flahute said:

Barrels are placed in particular warehouses and in particular places in those warehouses according to what they want them to end up being. Sampling along the way finds particular barrels that are performing differently than expected so those barrels can end up as different products. 

 

So, it could be that some barrels dedicated for KC could end up being upgraded or downgraded and diverted to different products, and similarly some dedicated to Beam products could be upgraded or downgraded and diverted as well?  The produce so much distillate, I imagine they have quite a bit of flexibility.

[flahute]

1 hour ago, mbroo5880i said:

 

So, it could be that some barrels dedicated for KC could end up being upgraded or downgraded and diverted to different products, and similarly some dedicated to Beam products could be upgraded or downgraded and diverted as well?  The produce so much distillate, I imagine they have quite a bit of flexibility.

The best KC's will likely go into the single barrel program. Downgraded KC's can go into Beam Black or get blended in to standard KC.

I don't know if standard Beam barrels can get upgraded into KC but it's certainly possible since it's all the same mashbill.

 

EDIT to add: Beam gets bottled at a much younger age so I'm not sure if they are willing to identify future KC barrels from the areas where standard Beam comes from.

Edited December 18, 2016 by flahute
added more info

[T Comp]

1 hour ago, Prof_Stack said:

There are some comparisons here to the big macro-breweries which continue to make pee-water beer and then market the crap out of it to tell the hipsters that beer should taste like that.  Which is one reason that craft breweries continue to pop up.  And they don't have to wait 2 or more years to bottle and sell their stuff.

 

Or pop up and hope that the big macro pee-water maker buys your craft operation up. AB-InBev up to 9 with Karbach in November. 

http://fortune.com/2016/11/03/ab-inbev-buys-karbach-craft/

[mbroo5880i]

1 hour ago, flahute said:

The best KC's will likely go into the single barrel program. Downgraded KC's can go into Beam Black or get blended in to standard KC.

I don't know if standard Beam barrels can get upgraded into KC but it's certainly possible since it's all the same mashbill.

 

EDIT to add: Beam gets bottled at a much younger age so I'm not sure if they are willing to identify future KC barrels from the areas where standard Beam comes from.

 

Steve, this makes sense.  Of course, Beam now has the double aged too, right?  Either way, I can see concern about the potential loss of an age statement. Jeff is correct that there are few instances where it is a positive from a quality standpoint.  However, Joe's point that the change in quality probably occurs before the loss of the age statement is correct as well.