Stitzel-Weller Blade and Bow

[bourbontiger9]

I've seen and heard mixed reviews on this one. I have 2 bottles currently, a #4 key bottle I had first and liked, and a #5 key bottle I picked up a few weeks ago. My understanding is that the keys are indicative of how old the juice is, with #5 most likely containing the oldest SW stocks used in the solera aging process Diageo utilizes on this one.

I'm interested to hear thoughts on this bottle from others on here to see if it is as split as what I've heard and read. It appears to have won a few awards but many seem to think it is lacking the "punch" it should have at its price point and that it is more of marketing gimmic. I personally enjoy this one and the flavor it delivers, especially after a little airtime. What do others like/dislike about this one?

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[amg]

8 minutes ago, bourbontiger9 said:

 

I've seen and heard mixed reviews on this one. I have 2 bottles currently, a #4 key bottle I had first and liked, and a #5 key bottle I picked up a few weeks ago. My understanding is that the keys are indicative of how old the juice is, with #5 most likely containing the oldest SW stocks used in the solera aging process Diageo utilizes on this one.

I'm interested to hear thoughts on this bottle from others on here to see if it is as split as what I've heard and read. It appears to have won a few awards but many seem to think it is lacking the "punch" it should have at its price point and that it is more of marketing gimmic. I personally enjoy this one and the flavor it delivers, especially after a little airtime. What do others like/dislike about this one?

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My understanding is that the keys mean nothing and are just a gimmick to get you to collect them all.

[BottledInBond]

I haven't bought it so this probably isn't the type of feedback that was hoped for. The comment about "marketing gimmick" pretty much sums up Diageo in a nutshell. I'd be willing to bet a whole lot of money that there has never been more than 1% Stitzell Weller juice in any bottle of Blade and Bow. Pretty much everything they do is a marketing gimmick, and I will never give them the benefit of the doubt on anything

[GrPeMi]

Had a bottle of B&B...Got it as a gift. No recollection of what key # it was. Found it to just be meh. Compared it SBS with an '05 EWSB (same proof, unknown age comparison) and the EWSB blew it out of the water. And for way less $, too.

[0895]

Average stuff.  Not bad whiskey, but not great whiskey.  Gorgeous bottle.

I think they cut the proof down too low and lost some flavors.

 

Key # means nothing except for collectable value...just like Blanton's horses.

[bourbontiger9]

I haven't bought it so this probably isn't the type of feedback that was hoped for. The comment about "marketing gimmick" pretty much sums up Diageo in a nutshell. I'd be willing to bet a whole lot of money that there has never been more than 1% Stitzell Weller juice in any bottle of Blade and Bow. Pretty much everything they do is a marketing gimmick, and I will never give them the benefit of the doubt on anything

Very interesting perspective on this, BIB. I didn't know Diageo had a tendency, or reputation rather, for bringing this caliber of product to market. What are some of your other experiences with them leading you to never give them the benefit of the doubt?

Although I like the B&B product, I can't say I'm a fan of the marketing strategy. Are there other Diageo products you'd be weary of?

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[flahute]

1 hour ago, bourbontiger9 said:

Very interesting perspective on this, BIB. I didn't know Diageo had a tendency, or reputation rather, for bringing this caliber of product to market. What are some of your other experiences with them leading you to never give them the benefit of the doubt?

Although I like the B&B product, I can't say I'm a fan of the marketing strategy. Are there other Diageo products you'd be weary of?

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Not speaking for BIB, but: the entire Orphan Barrel series.

[BottledInBond]

11 hours ago, bourbontiger9 said:

Very interesting perspective on this, BIB. I didn't know Diageo had a tendency, or reputation rather, for bringing this caliber of product to market. What are some of your other experiences with them leading you to never give them the benefit of the doubt?

Although I like the B&B product, I can't say I'm a fan of the marketing strategy. Are there other Diageo products you'd be weary of?

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As Flahute already said, the Orphan Barrel line is a pretty big joke. Oh, you just recently "found" these orphaned barrels? How many did you find? Oh, thousands all the same age that are sitting together? Yeah, that's just a stupid story giving them an angle to bottle stuff that had been passed over for years and slap it into a fancy bottle and charge premium prices for it. Most of it is over oaked and under proofed. But never underpriced.

 

Even before the more recent new products ( B&B, Orphan Barrels, Harper) Diageo was already guilty of a lot of the same complaints that many people have of NDPs. For the record, I have no problem with NDPs that are honest about what they are doing. But no, Diageo has never been honest. Take Bulleit for example. They like to tell stories about it being "frontier whiskey" and talk about the Bulleit family history. The problem with that is they don't bottle any products that the Bulleit family or Diageo has ever distilled or even come up with the recipe. But what casual consumer would ever know that? 

 

They hey sure like to pimp that Stitzell Weller name these days don't they? Well, that facility hasn't produced whiskey for 24 years. They try to make marketing connections to their products by saying that their Orphan Barrels were "found in the rickhouses of Stitzell Weller". Clearly they were not distilled there, Diageo transported them there and then to nobody's surprise managed to find them again. As far as B&B goes, I don't think they have any S-W distillate in their possession. If they did, don't you think they would do what Heaven Hill did with the Fitzgerald release and charge like $500 for a 375 of it? They price beaver bourbon for $100 or more but people are expected to beleive that they have some holy grail juice left and they blend it into cheaper product? I have a very hard time believing that. The best case scenario I can imagine is that the solera thing is partially true by them running the solera system through some empty old barrels from S-W. I've drank plenty of S-W juice, and I can tell you definitively that none of their recent products have tasted anything like it. In fact even their cavalier marketing people have never once claimed any of their current products to be made from a wheated mashbill.........

 

Their most legitimate position in American whiskey is George Dickell. Dickell at least has a long term functional distillery still actually producing whiskey. But there are warts there as well recently. First of all, they have been losing key employees recently. Why? Good question and I won't continue this huge post by expanding, but they have had real losses recently. Another example of their stupid NDP moves is the George Dickell rye. I'm not saying tge product doesn't taste good, but it's largely just a marketing game because it's the same thing as Bulleitt rye essentially. Wait, Bulleit is Kentucky Frontier Whiskey and Dickel is Tennessee sipping whiskey? Well both ryes are Indiana industrial whiskey no matter what the marketing says. The only difference is the charcoal filtering which isn't really the same as the real Lincoln County process since it happens after aging etc. 

 

I will cut myself off at this point of my rant but needless to say I've got some opinions on their entire approach to American whiskey. Marketing shenanigans trying to convince people that Blade & Bow has anything to do with Stitzell Weller is just a symptom of the overall disease. And.... Rant over

[FacePlant]

Well after the well written and thoughtful rant, I'd just like to add that I really like the Barter House. Yes it costs too much but except for the short soft finish it's tasty. I can tell that real SW taste.

[amg]

24 minutes ago, FacePlant said:

Well after the well written and thoughtful rant, I'd just like to add that I really like the Barter House. Yes it costs too much but except for the short soft finish it's tasty. I can tell that real SW taste.

Barterhouse was distilled at Bernheim. Not SW.

[jeffrey r]

14 minutes ago, FacePlant said:

Well after the well written and thoughtful rant, I'd just like to add that I really like the Barter House. Yes it costs too much but except for the short soft finish it's tasty. I can tell that real SW taste.

 

Nothing really wrong with Barterhouse in my opinion.  I have bought a few bottles of it.

[FacePlant]

24 minutes ago, amg said:

Barterhouse was distilled at Bernheim. Not SW.

Sure has that Old Fitz taste. The one from SW. Interesting that went to Bernheim too?

[BottledInBond]

I bought and drank one bottle of Barterhouse. I think that for about $80 it is OK for people who like an oak-forward whiskey, especially when you consider that Elijah 18/23 have gone way above that pricing as far as other somewhat available and older age stated products. However some people are of course more interested in buying products that they know more about the provenance, trust the people picking barrels, etc. So there is of course a market for similar aged HH products at even higher prices. 

 

I have never thought that Barterhouse was a wheated mashbill, nor has Diageo ever suggested (as far as I am aware) that it or any other Orphan Barrel is a wheated bourbon. Once again, if Diageo had any volume of 20+ year wheated Stitzell Weller juice they would charge a king's ransom for it, and they would certainly be more direct about claiming it to be that juice. 

[RWBadley]

A little off topic re: B&B,  but since this was raised...

 

Regardless of the marketing hype and any ill will towards Diageo tactics- and I harbor a little myself- Barterhouse from what I have been able to discern, was a fairly large run of case lots that were not all the same dump from what I can tell. I have a number of them open with various bottle numbers from about 6K to 30k to 45k to 60k to 75k and 90some k. Interesting they do have variation of flavor, and I have found some in a sweet spot that I have tried to focus on picking up a few more of- especially as a local had some at the 60$ price point for a while.

 

Indeed some Barterhouse was quite  meh, but some few of the sweet spot bottling was pretty fine juice and reminded me quite a bit- from this old memory of mine- of AH Hirsch 20yo. Near enough, but not a dead ringer. I'm happy to get that close for $60 vs the 2500$ the Hirsch would go for these days, and thankful Diageo placed it on the market for my (our) consumption.

 

These days I'm happy to take it where I can find it.

Hot tip- the OF1920 has bourbon deal of the year written all over it. Thanks indeed to Brown-Forman, another producer that sometimes doesn't get the love

[Limegoldconvertible68]

I've heard that if you show up for a tour at SW with all 5 keys you get a little gift

[amg]

4 hours ago, FacePlant said:

Sure has that Old Fitz taste. The one from SW. Interesting that went to Bernheim too?

According to the Diageo release, the Barterhouse mash bill is 86% corn, 8% barley and 6% rye, so not the Old Fitz recipe.

[PaulO]

I like the Dickel Rye sourced from IN.  It's sort of an outlier compared to many other Diageo brands.  Price is reasonable.  We know who made it.

They re-released IW Harper in the US - no bottled in bond version this time.  I guess they didn't want to put a DSP number on a label?

I suppose a lot of what they bottle is ok, but maybe not good enough for me to fork over the money.  Then we have the mysterious origins and funny stories.