Bourbon is still a value

[Bbstout]

I know this may contradict what I've posted recently as I have been frustrated with both the price and availability of our favorite bourbons. I was looking at some old posts from around 15 years ago and to my surprise many Bourbons have skyrocketed like Van Winkles but the majority have stayed relatively stagnant pricewise. Even Booker's which has been villified by many lately, was selling for $45 in 2002. Can you blame Beam for wanting to make a larger profit when new craft producers are selling 2-4 year old product for $30-$60?

 

The biggest surprises I noted were the 3 bottles purchased pictured below. The OGD 114 & Old Ezra were selling for $13-$15 in 2002, the EWSB between$20-$25. I can walk into TW in Minnesota and get both the OGD & Ezra for $18 and the EWSB for $20 (Although not a true 10 year old anymore) 

 

BTW...when did the Ezra bottle change? Also has anyone confirmed it is truly a HH bottling?

[amg]

That Old Ezra on the left is a new label as of this year. That continues to be a great sleeper value, and I was relieved to see that they kept the 7 year age statement and the proof.

 

It sure tastes like Heaven Hill to me, but you never know with an NDP.

Edited December 19, 2016 by amg

[BourbonDrinkingSailor]

A lot of people don't like to look at the fact that a lot of bourbons haven't even increased with inflation over the last 15 years. Booker's has had relatively the same price for 15 years. It would have been better for these companies to just do annual increases though instead of these crazy jumps all at once. 

[ken_mays]

The last bottle of Old Ezra 101 I bought was purchased about a year ago, looks like the old label on the right.  I think it was $13.   It is virtually indistinguishable from the HH 6 year BIB to me.

[miller542]

19 hours ago, Bbstout said:

I can walk into TW in Minnesota and get both the OGD & Ezra for $18 and the EWSB for $20 (Although not a true 10 year old anymore) 

 

 

Not for long, OGD is going away.  Your prices are a bargain relative to the rest of the country and don't seem to accurately reflect what's going on in the industry.  The Party Source lists OGD at $25 and EWSB at $27 (which is what I see here in UT).  Enjoy your values while you can, MN is sure to creep up just like the rest of the country has.

[BDanner]

I'm in a control state so I rarely see prices below MSRP, but there is no other spirit that you can match the quality of bourbon in the $15-$30 range. So many good ones EW BIB, WT 101, HMK10, Four Roses SmB, OGD BIB & 114 and on and on without dropping over $30. Try that with scotch, Rum, Tequila etc. 

Edited December 19, 2016 by BDanner

[fenderbender4]

I don't know if the blanket statement of "Bourbon is a good value" holds true anymore, just my opinion.  I think it USED to, when you could find the harder to find and/or brands that still had age statements.  Part of what influences my opinion is the difficulty in procuring many of the bottles that might be considered "values" (BTAC, etc.).

 

I think now bourbon is more similar to other types of whiskies where if you know what to look for, there are some good values for quality/price/comparisons to others in the same price range.  It's just not a blanket statement that holds true anymore.

[Richnimrod]

I'd have to agree that Bourbon is still a value; for sure when compared to Scotch and Irish offerings... most of which I would never trade most Bourbons for on an 'equal cost basis'.  

Bourbon is rich in flavor and aroma!   ....The two main reasons I drink spirits.

I won't say that a great many of the Scotches, and all the Irish Whiskeys I've sampled (admittedly not a large number) were lacking in both areas.... Welllllll; yes I will say it.

They just don't play well with my taste buddies, and my olfactory.    They leave me wanting... and in general cost waaaaaaaaay more than a great many Bourbons of much superior attributes.    Just my own experience, of course.

I admit, my palate is not an educated one; for sure not one that can extract the subtleties written about by the whiskey writers    So I'm lucky, I suppose, that I don't find it necessary to spend exorbitant amounts on stuff I can't taste.   HA!

[musekatcher]

Relative to Irish or Scotch, I think Bourbon is still a great value.  Lots of great offerings under $30.  I've not found a Scotch or Irish that interests me for under $45. 

[fishnbowljoe]

Bourbon is still a value, as long as you can afford it. 

[Richnimrod]

1 hour ago, fishnbowljoe said:

Bourbon is still a value, as long as you can afford it. 

HA!   Ain't it the truth?

[Flyfish]

17 hours ago, musekatcher said:

Relative to Irish or Scotch, I think Bourbon is still a great value.  Lots of great offerings under $30.  I've not found a Scotch or Irish that interests me for under $45. 

Now, see, I've not found a Scotch or Irish that interests me for more than $45. 

[Clueby]

41 minutes ago, Flyfish said:

Now, see, I've not found a Scotch or Irish that interests me for more than $45. 

I'm more on Muse's side.  I don't find many of the lower priced Scotches that really do much for me.  I'm a fan of Islays and they tend to be a little pricier. Just the logistics of getting materials to and from that island have to cost a bit.  Ardbed Ten is around that $45 mark.

I haven't found many Irish whiskey (whisky?) at pretty much any price that does anything for me.  They distill all the flavor out of it.

[Saul_cooperstein]

Bourbon (and American whiskey in general such as rye) are amazing (and perhaps unique) as at the same time both a strong value and a sought after luxury good. Many many bottles fit in both categories at the same time. ETL, ECBP, OWA/W12, MSRP BTAC and VW, OGD114, JD SBBP, WTRB and RR, SAOS, RY10 and many more. Even if push down in price value still holds even if lose some of the luxury good status KC, EWSB, WT101 and 101rye, etc etc 

[musekatcher]

While wine is very popular, bourbon and whiskey offer a much better value as an apertif or digestif.  A good bottle of wine will serve 4 guests (or servings).  A bottle of bourbon will serve 12 guests (or servings).  So, you'd have to purchase 3 bottles of wine to one bottle of bourbon to serve the same crowd.  For the same money, you'd be offering your guests a much better product.  Three $20 bottles of  good wine, would finance a $60 bottle of bourbon - lots of brag-able super premium bourbons for that, while $20 wine isn't that memorable.  And, bourbon will be less filling and fewer calories.  Cognac offers a nice digestif too, but runs higher than bourbon.  Scotch also runs more for a top shelf selection.  Bourbon wins!  Introduce your pickled-grape juice friends to an adult beverage!

[Saul_cooperstein]

Bourbon vs wine not even close from value perspective. One of main reasons my drinking shifted to American whiskey from wine over last few years. Even better is that with  whiskey you can open and enjoy a bottle over months vs significantly less time with wine even with (somewhat expensive) preservation tools. 

[mosugoji64]

On December 18, 2016 at 7:52 PM, amg said:

 

It sure tastes like Heaven Hill to me, but you never know with an NDP.

 

To add to that, in addition to the current OE101 tasting like HH, I have a dusty bottle of it that tastes like pre-fire HH so I would bet they've maintained that source for quite a long time.

[garbanzobean]

On 12/27/2016 at 1:07 PM, Flyfish said:

Now, see, I've not found a Scotch or Irish that interests me for more than $45. 

I'm sort of the opposite.  I think the QPR sweet sport for Scotch Whisky is in the $50-$150 range.  I used to cap that at $100, but the times they are a changin.  I have to keep in mind that Quality to Price Ratio simply identifies bang for buck, not low cost.  At any rate, most of my favorite malts are in that price range.  

 

As to Irish and Canadian Whiskies, they unfortunately are not to my taste.  I tried really hard to like them, particularly with Canadian whiskies, just because they represent such a value.  Alas, not much luck.  I'll try again in a few years.

[LCWoody]

Bourbon and whiskey as a food purchase (consumable product) is a great value. When you can buy something to consume and keep it for ten years before you drink or eat it, and once you open it keep it for another ten years that's not a bad investment. (Unless you have friends over and its very good and they drink it all in one night.)  

[VT Mike]

Bourbon is still a good value relative to what it was between WWII and when the industry crashed in the 1970's, if you correct for inflation. I went back and found prices for Old Forester BIB in old newspaper ads from that period and made inflation adjustments. There was a bit of a shortage after the war because all of the distillers had been making nothing but industrial alcohol during the war; in 1947 OFBIB was going for the modern equivalent of $70 to $75. From 1952 to 1972 the adjusted price ranged from about $45 to $60.

I realize that they're marketing the Old Forester 1897 Bottled in Bond as a premium product for $50 to $60 now, but in terms of age and proof, Old Forester Signature isn't much different and it's still going for $25.

[musekatcher]

1 hour ago, VT Mike said:

Bourbon is still a good value relative to what it was between WWII and when the industry crashed in the 1970's, if you correct for inflation. I went back and found prices for Old Forester BIB in old newspaper ads from that period and made inflation adjustments. There was a bit of a shortage after the war because all of the distillers had been making nothing but industrial alcohol during the war; in 1947 OFBIB was going for the modern equivalent of $70 to $75. From 1952 to 1972 the adjusted price ranged from about $45 to $60.

I realize that they're marketing the Old Forester 1897 Bottled in Bond as a premium product for $50 to $60 now, but in terms of age and proof, Old Forester Signature isn't much different and it's still going for $25.

 

+1  OFS was going for $18 here not long ago.  It has shot up to $23 now but still $2+ cheaper than JBBIB, WT101, and OGDBIB, and IMO the best 100 pr under $28.  OF is a good benchmark to assess the inflation/deflation of quality bourbon thru the years. 

Edited January 2, 2017 by musekatcher

[Charlutz]

1 hour ago, VT Mike said:

Bourbon is still a good value relative to what it was between WWII and when the industry crashed in the 1970's, if you correct for inflation. I went back and found prices for Old Forester BIB in old newspaper ads from that period and made inflation adjustments. There was a bit of a shortage after the war because all of the distillers had been making nothing but industrial alcohol during the war; in 1947 OFBIB was going for the modern equivalent of $70 to $75. From 1952 to 1972 the adjusted price ranged from about $45 to $60.

I realize that they're marketing the Old Forester 1897 Bottled in Bond as a premium product for $50 to $60 now, but in terms of age and proof, Old Forester Signature isn't much different and it's still going for $25.

 

I applaud the effort in running the numbers and agree that bourbon is a good value, but I don't think inflation is the best benchmark of how to define "good value," which is admittedly a subjective term. I think it's best to measure bourbon against other whiskeys or forms of alcohol because there is still a choice for the consumer to purchase something else if they don't like bourbon prices. If for instance, OFSig went for $50 and all other bourbon rose proportionately, it would still be a fair value against the 1947-72 prices. If that happened and prices of other whiskeys and alcohol held where they are, bourbon would not be a good value against those other products. The "good value" definition measured against other whiskeys resonates better with me, but YMMV. 

[garbanzobean]

I think there's plenty of room for both metrics, as well as the ultimate arbiters of QPR value: our senses of taste and smell.  Only those are going to tell us if we are getting a good deal or not.

[Harry in WashDC]

If price per ounce was the dominant variable, we'd all be scarfing up Everclear with caramel coloring.  Or, maybe Seagram's 7.   So, like Eric, I prefer using some subjective criteria like smell/taste, mouthfeel (umami or chew or body), complexity (which is not to be confused with homogeneity), etc., COUPLED with price to determine if I'm getting good value.

 

As I've posted before (ad nauseum), I used to drink Lot B all the time at $50 per 750 but stopped buying it when I had to hunt for it AND the price hit $75.  The happy outcome from the Lot B price increase/scarcity was that I started searching for a replacement.  Instead, I found SEVERAL substitutes AND straightbourbon.com (again - I'd stumbled on it circa 2002 but only visited occasionally, being intimidated by the knowledge of its members).

 

And, as fishinbowljoe said above, bourbon is a bargain if you can afford it.  While I crave GTS (which I can afford at MSRP but am too lazy to chase), I am perfectly happy wallowing in a half dozen bottom and middle shelfers (not all at once, of course.  And, I don't take baths in it.)

 

SO, yes, bourbon is still a value.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Harry in WashDC
Spelling/typos - it is OGD's fault.

[fishnbowljoe]

5 minutes ago, Harry in WashDC said:

If price per ounce was the dominant variable, we'd all be scarfing up Everclear with caramel coloring.  Or, maybe Seagram's 7.   So, like Eric, I prefer using some subjective criteria like smell/taste, mouthfeel (umami or chew or body), complexity (which is not to be confused with homogeneity), etc., COUPLED with price to determine if I'm getting good value.

 

As I've posted before (ad nauseum), I used to drink Lot B all the time at $50 per 750 but stopped buying it when I had to hunt for it AND the price hit $75.  The happy outcome from the Lot B price increase/scarcity was that I started searching for a replacement.  Instead, I found SEVERAL substitutes aAND strsaightbourbon.com (again - I'd stumbled on it circa 2002 but only visited occasionally, being intimidated by the knowledge of its members).

 

And, as fishinbowljoe said above, bourbon is a bargain if you can afford it.  While I crave GTS (which I can afford at MSRP but am too lazy to chase), I am perfectly happy wallowing in a half dozen bottom and middle shelfers (not all at once, of course.  And, I don't take baths in it.)

 

SO, yes, bourbon is still a value.

 

Nice post Harry. Thanks for referencing my post, and for taking it as it was meant. In all honesty, my post was a bit tongue in cheek, but I was half serious too. I consider myself lucky in that I got into bourbon a little before the "boom". I was able to buy and bunker a few good bottles at decent prices before things started to get so out of hand. I no longer think the thrill of the chase, or the cost of special bottles is worth it any more. I'm not poor by any means, but my wallet is only so thick. I refuse to pay the asking price for many of the products out there now. For the most part, I plan on buying occasional bottles that I hope will continue to be a good value for at least a little while longer. I truly like BT, HH 6 BIB, and a few other value pours. I'll buy and drink those, and occasionally open something good from my bunker as I feel the need to do so. Even though I haven't given up hope yet, I honestly don't see things getting any better for the foreseeable future. To quote Forrest Gump, "That's all I have to say about that." 

 

Cheers! Joe