Van Winkle and Antique Collection allocations

[VT Mike]

This year, for the first time, the state of Vermont (liquor control state) is using a sweepstakes to give customers the opportunity to buy one of these bottles. They took entries over a three week period (it just ended a few days ago) and it was only open to VT residents. You could enter for each bottle individually, but once your name was picked you weren't eligible for any others.

 

What I found interesting was the number of bottles that they had of each expression. There was a separate sweepstakes for on-premise customers (bars and restaurants), I listed those numbers second, followed by the totals.

 

ORVW 10 yr...................25...........6..........31

VWSR 12 yr...................48..........11..........59

PVWFR 15 yr...................9............1..........10

PVWFR 20 yr...................4............1............5

Saz 18 yr........................3.............0...........3

THH..............................18............4..........22

WLW..............................7.............1...........8

GTS................................9.............2.........11

ER 17 yr.........................5.............0...........5

 

The prices are basically MSRP since it's a control state. I'm glad to see that they allocated less to on-premise buyers because I feel like bars and restaurants have been snapping up a lot of these bottles in recent years and charging huge markups on the drink price. It seemed like the liquor stores were making sure most of these bottles went to their best on-premise customers.

 

[JoeTerp]

2 hours ago, VT Mike said:

This year, for the first time, the state of Vermont (liquor control state) is using a sweepstakes to give customers the opportunity to buy one of these bottles. They took entries over a three week period (it just ended a few days ago) and it was only open to VT residents. You could enter for each bottle individually, but once your name was picked you weren't eligible for any others.

 

What I found interesting was the number of bottles that they had of each expression. There was a separate sweepstakes for on-premise customers (bars and restaurants), I listed those numbers second, followed by the totals.

 

ORVW 10 yr...................25...........6..........31

VWSR 12 yr...................48..........11..........59

PVWFR 15 yr...................9............1..........10

PVWFR 20 yr...................4............1............5

Saz 18 yr........................3.............0...........3

THH..............................18............4..........22

WLW..............................7.............1...........8

GTS................................9.............2.........11

ER 17 yr.........................5.............0...........5

 

The prices are basically MSRP since it's a control state. I'm glad to see that they allocated less to on-premise buyers because I feel like bars and restaurants have been snapping up a lot of these bottles in recent years and charging huge markups on the drink price. It seemed like the liquor stores were making sure most of these bottles went to their best on-premise customers.

 

Virginia (another control state) also did something similar this year for the ORVW, Lot B, and Pappy 15 (the others are still on some sort of double secret waiting list).  I believe that they claim that 18% of limited releases are allocated for on-premise accounts as these accounts do 18% of overall sales.

[Limegoldconvertible68]

I swear I know a single store that got a bigger allotment than your entire state. I'm exaggerating but not but too much. Then again it's been my experience that you actually have a better chance at finding good bottles just because of the difference in population. 

[Bourserker]

6 hours ago, JoeTerp said:

Virginia (another control state) also did something similar this year for the ORVW, Lot B, and Pappy 15 (the others are still on some sort of double secret waiting list).  I believe that they claim that 18% of limited releases are allocated for on-premise accounts as these accounts do 18% of overall sales.

Yeah, I got in on this.  Signed up for ORVW 10 and PVW 15...didn't get either one.  I was on the "double secret list" as you called it, and scored 2 PVW 20s though after being on the list for 4 years.  VA is really cool about honoring that list, and I respect them for that.

[Enoch]

I have a friend who owns a liquor store and gets a fairly large allotment. But he tells me that a number of the restaurants threaten not to buy from him if they don't get a substantial number of allocated bottles. He therefore only has a few for the general public.

[FacePlant]

 Great post Mike. Thanks for sharing. Less than 130 bottles for the public and <160 bottles for the entire state? WOW!

I used the release letters to do a little math. Here's what I came up with without double checking all the figures:

Saz  860 cases

ER17  1900 cases

WLW  4473 cases

Handy  3980 cases

Stagg  3153

(I used 3 bottle case)

Your states allocation is similar % wise on the antiques. And your state got 0 of the Pappy 23? Looks like you bourbon drinkers in VT got some recruiting to do.

[VT Mike]

1 hour ago, FacePlant said:

 Great post Mike. Thanks for sharing. Less than 130 bottles for the public and <160 bottles for the entire state? WOW!

I used the release letters to do a little math. Here's what I came up with without double checking all the figures:

Saz  860 cases

ER17  1900 cases

WLW  4473 cases

Handy  3980 cases

Stagg  3153

(I used 3 bottle case)

Your states allocation is similar % wise on the antiques. And your state got 0 of the Pappy 23? Looks like you bourbon drinkers in VT got some recruiting to do.

 

The state only has a population of 600,000. There are probably single stores in urban areas of the country that service a population of that size. I'm pretty sure Vermont has never gotten any Pappy 23 or VW Rye. For a long time the state just got the 15 year and the 20 year. They started getting the 12 year in 2012 and they just got the 10 year for the first time in 2015.

[Louisiana]

 

That distribution is definitely not the same as LA. It's a lot better for the consumers ratio wise in VT.

 

I have a good buddy that restaurants were trying to squeeze like your saying Enoch. Didn't work, because his prices were still lower on wines & other spirits than other stores. They didn't like it, but that's business.

 

 

[tanstaafl2]

On ‎1‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 9:51 AM, Enoch said:

I have a friend who owns a liquor store and gets a fairly large allotment. But he tells me that a number of the restaurants threaten not to buy from him if they don't get a substantial number of allocated bottles. He therefore only has a few for the general public.

 

Although South Carolina seems to be particularly unusual in that on premise locations have to buy all their liquor directly from liquor stores. They don't get it from the State or a distributor. In Georgia they get it from the distributors and Vermont as noted above serves as the monopoly for distribution and decides who gets what. 

 

Perhaps their are other states that operate like SC but it was the first one I have ever heard of!

[Old Dusty]

2016 was the year of Lot B. Every list of allocatons that I saw from the fall had a disproportionate number of the 12 yr.  I don't care what they say about tasting panels and honey barrel selection, there has got to be a direct correlation to the scarcity of W12 and the relative abundance of that particular version of VW. At least in 2016. 

[VT Mike]

46 minutes ago, tanstaafl2 said:

........................and Vermont as noted above serves as the monopoly for distribution and decides who gets what.

Well, not exactly. The state here controls pricing and distribution to the stores, but the stores are privately owned and on-premise accounts have to buy from the stores. If I special order something, the state will send it to whichever store I ask them to and they'll tell the store that it's for me, but outside of that scenario the stores can decide who gets what.

[tanstaafl2]

1 hour ago, VT Mike said:

Well, not exactly. The state here controls pricing and distribution to the stores, but the stores are privately owned and on-premise accounts have to buy from the stores. If I special order something, the state will send it to whichever store I ask them to and they'll tell the store that it's for me, but outside of that scenario the stores can decide who gets what.

 

Fair enough! No state run stores. Interesting that on-premise must buy directly from the stores in Vermont too. Various state laws are so different.

[Old Dusty]

20 minutes ago, tanstaafl2 said:

 

Various state laws are so archaic, silly, and arbitrary. 

Fixed your post Bruce.  

[VT Mike]

7 hours ago, tanstaafl2 said:

 

Fair enough! No state run stores. Interesting that on-premise must buy directly from the stores in Vermont too. Various state laws are so different.

I've heard that we had state run stores a long time ago. I guess there was a lot of consumer demand for the stores to be open on Sunday, but if they did that they would have had to pay the state employees that worked there double time, so they privatized the stores.

 

The state sets the price and the stores make a really slim margin, I think less than 10%. But the stores don't have to pay for their inventory, it's basically on loan from the state and the stores only pay for the bottles once they've sold them. For a lot of the stores the liquor is just there to bring more customers through the door with the hope that they'll also buy products with a higher profit margin. It's kind of a crazy system.

[meadeweber]

23 hours ago, Old Dusty said:

2016 was the year of Lot B. Every list of allocatons that I saw from the fall had a disproportionate number of the 12 yr.  I don't care what they say about tasting panels and honey barrel selection, there has got to be a direct correlation to the scarcity of W12 and the relative abundance of that particular version of VW. At least in 2016. 

Salient point Dusty. I have not heard anyone make that connection.  I think you are on to something there.

[emr454]

Talked to a local liquor store owner, she has a hard time getting any ORVW10. Used to be sold for $40 until she learned of flippers, then upped the price to $300! She heard of another store selling PVW15 for $700 No thanks

[berto]

Wow.  It's always interesting to see how this gets handled in other places.  I've heard the CA allocation leaned heavy to on premise this year.  A small group I'm part of took down about that much BTAC from one retailer even with a one bottle of each brand limit and would have come close on the VW save for the one VW of any type limit.     

[tanstaafl2]

      On ‎1‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 4:38 PM, tanstaafl2 said:

 

Various state laws are so archaic, silly, and arbitrary. 

 

On ‎1‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 4:59 PM, Old Dusty said:

Fixed your post Bruce.  

 

 

Well, yes, that kind of was implied!

Edited January 19, 2017 by tanstaafl2

[Enoch]

On 1/17/2017 at 1:55 PM, tanstaafl2 said:

 

Although South Carolina seems to be particularly unusual in that on premise locations have to buy all their liquor directly from liquor stores. They don't get it from the State or a distributor. In Georgia they get it from the distributors and Vermont as noted above serves as the monopoly for distribution and decides who gets what. 

 

Perhaps their are other states that operate like SC but it was the first one I have ever heard of!

We also have the distinction of being the last state to require mini-bottles in restaurants. Free-pour was first allowed New years Day 2006.

[Enoch]

I don't fully understand the law in NC but stopped at a store there a couple of years ago. I happened to look in the back room and saw several bottles that were not on the shelf (don't remember what they were) and was told those were for restaurants only.

 

[tanstaafl2]

1 hour ago, Enoch said:

I don't fully understand the law in NC but stopped at a store there a couple of years ago. I happened to look in the back room and saw several bottles that were not on the shelf (don't remember what they were) and was told those were for restaurants only.

 

 

Perhaps it is a more common practice after all than I thought initially.

[The Black Tot]

On 1/17/2017 at 7:05 PM, Old Dusty said:

 I don't care what they say about tasting panels and honey barrel selection, there has got to be a direct correlation to the scarcity of W12 and the relative abundance of that particular version of VW. At least in 2016. 

 

And/or the roots of upcoming potential increases in VW 15+ stocks in 2019.

[smokinjoe]

6 minutes ago, The Black Tot said:

 

And/or the roots of upcoming potential increases in VW 15+ stocks in 2019.

Or, the opposite.