New era of bourbon

[BourbonGuy]

14 hours ago, Agalloch said:

Interesting, theyve been ramping up for a while now.

 

I read (not sure where) that Jimmy Russell said they noticed and increase in the 1980's.  Without a magic ball, there was no way they could have predicted the future (our present).

[Don Birnam]

12 hours ago, smokinjoe said:

Seeing how far Marvin goes back in our passion and the overall gist of his post.

 

1 hour ago, GaryT said:

Folks like us bunkering aren't the issue as Joe pointed out.  

 

I disagree, the gist of Marvin's post was his bourbon doesn't taste as it did in the 'good old days' and he is blaming the CEO's and the lust for profit.

 

This brings to bear the bunkering issue, if enthusiasts didn't have 'good old day' bourbon to compare with, the changes in taste wouldn't be noticed.

No one is moaning about a taste change in Jim white, Jack black, or any other 'commodity' bourbon simply because no one has any 'put up' in the bunker, or bothering to do a side by side if they did have it bunkered.

 

As far as the taste changes are concerned, bourbon is a natural product, from the grain to the cask they are all evolving and as such, the bourbon itself MUST change.

And before we start talking about blending to a profile. What also changes are the master distillers taste receptors, whether naturally over time or because of an outside factor.

While they strive to make a consistent product, you can't expect them to match a flavor spot on to something that, as I said, is constantly changing and was produced years ago.

 

You don't complain that the lobster bisque you had last year at your favorite restaurant tastes different than the one you had last night. You understand that things change, the chef may be the same, the ingredients the same proportions, etc. but still it will be different. 

 

Add in to this the psychological aspect of the perception of corporate greed lowering the standard of quality and yes, you are going to have changes in taste, real or imagined.

[smokinjoe]

1 hour ago, Don Birnam said:

 

 

I disagree, the gist of Marvin's post was his bourbon doesn't taste as it did in the 'good old days' and he is blaming the CEO's and the lust for profit.

 

 

I was pointing out my thought that Marvin was most likely comparing modern day ER to Lawrenceburg ER (though he referred to it as SB), rather than variations in modern day ER single barrels as your post suggested.  

[Richnimrod]

2 hours ago, Don Birnam said:

 

 

I disagree, the gist of Marvin's post was his bourbon doesn't taste as it did in the 'good old days' and he is blaming the CEO's and the lust for profit.

 

 

There is possibly some kernel of applicable truth in the thought that profit motive has driven change, though.    Think about barrel entry proof at each distillery, and try to guess how much difference was made when the BEP changed in order to increase productivity (and to improve repeat-ability in profiles going forward...a good thing).     I wonder how much total difference that made from then to now?

[jvd99]

I wouldn't know because I never tasted the bourbons from decades ago, but common sense dictates that nothing stays the same forever and there are probably numerous casual factors contributing to that evolution, profit being just one of them. In 20 or 30 years, when I'm and old timer, I'll probably crow about the good ole days of bourbon back in the teens 

[GaryT]

3 hours ago, Don Birnam said:

I disagree, the gist of Marvin's post was his bourbon doesn't taste as it did in the 'good old days' and he is blaming the CEO's and the lust for profit.

 

This brings to bear the bunkering issue, if enthusiasts didn't have 'good old day' bourbon to compare with, the changes in taste wouldn't be noticed.

No one is moaning about a taste change in Jim white, Jack black, or any other 'commodity' bourbon simply because no one has any 'put up' in the bunker, or bothering to do a side by side if they did have it bunkered.

 

I get that no one has saved 2007 lobster bisque to compare/contrast - but many of these folks who are paying multiples of retail have NO IDEA what it used to taste like.  

 

Not trying to be argumentative, but are you suggesting that Marvin is to blame for having kept some gems from back then (because if he didn't, he wouldn't have noticed)?  

 

To clarify my point - the couple thousand of us that "bunker" (and speaking for myself - other than private barrel picks I participated in, I don't have more than 3-4 of any one label in my "bunker") aren't driving the scarcity and market conditions which has led producers to respond.  And based on what crap people pay money for in craft whiskey (WAAAAY more than they pay for equivalent products from the big guys), I don't see how they can be the bad guys (they'd be the stupid guys if they just sat on their thumbs while market conditions were significantly shifting beneath them - in fact, I think they ignored market conditions in the late 70s and 80s which led to the glut, which led to some historic producers closing up such as ND and SW).

[b1gcountry]

In 20 or 30 years, when I'm and old timer, I'll probably crow about the good ole days of bourbon back in the teens 

 

I just jumped in my time machine and found this post on SB in 2042:

"Don't you wish you could go back to 2017 and try some of that Hudson Baby Bourbon back before everyone started buying it up? Now you can't find a 375ml bottle for under $500k. That may have been the golden Era of Terrapure before the whole factory got modernized. They used to sell bourbon artificially aged a whole 18 months using REAL OAK CASKS! what an amazing time 2017 must have been for bourbon junkies of the time and they didn't even realize it. What sorry sighted sots.

 

StillSmokinJoe"

 

[garbanzobean]

2 hours ago, b1gcountry said:

 

I just jumped in my time machine and found this post on SB in 2042:

"Don't you wish you could go back to 2017 and try some of that Hudson Baby Bourbon back before everyone started buying it up? Now you can't find a 375ml bottle for under $500k. That may have been the golden Era of Terrapure before the whole factory got modernized. They used to sell bourbon artificially aged a whole 18 months using REAL OAK CASKS! what an amazing time 2017 must have been for bourbon junkies of the time and they didn't even realize it. What sorry sighted sots.

 

StillSmokinJoe"

 

I read the other day that William Grant & Sons, owner of Glenfiddich and Balvenie, finally purchased the Tulhilltown Distillery recently, having bought the Hudson brand like seven years ago.  My first thought was "Seven f&@#ing years?!?! We could potentially be drinking traditionally matured f$@#ing bourbon from Hudson right now if WG&S had invested more money and faith?!?!" 

 

Oh well.  Hopefully they invest what is needed to do it properly now.