"25 Most Important Bourbons" article

[Vosgar]

My wife forwarded this article to me and my first thought was "here we go again", followed by a groan. Then I looked at the list of people they talked to and how it was compiled. An interesting list that's pretty tough to argue with IMHO.

 

http://www.foodandwine.com/cocktails-spirits/25-most-important-bourbons-ever-made

 

 

 

 

 

[lcpfratn]

I agree that is an interesting article and the justification for inclusion makes a lot of sense. Could I argue for some that were left out to replace some that were included...of course. Would I change the ranking of some...absolutely! However, it's a pretty good list generated by knowledgeable folks with justification for each inclusion in the list. It's hard to argue with that.


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[PaulO]

This was a better article compared to many of this type.  I found no laugh out loud mistakes.  It's not necessarily a list of "you should make sure to try..."  Yeah, flavored stuff sells a lot nowadays.  Also, some brands have a prominent place in history.  The modern versions can fall far short of the legend.  I'm thinking about Old Crow and Old Taylor 6.

[Conquistador]

The article references Chuck Cowdery several times. However, Chuck is not a fan of this piece in Food & Wine.

 

http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.com/2017/06/something-went-wrong-on-way-to-25-most.html

[BottledInBond]

I understand that this isn't supposed to be all about the quality of the current products, but I can't support Hudson Baby Bourbon being on any such list. Crap product, overpriced, and I don't think their stuff is getting any better as time goes by. I think I could make arguments for plenty of other more worthy replacements. Just my opinion though of course

[EarthQuake]

This article was a lot better than I expected.

 

I understand the inclusion of Hudson Baby Bourbon, more than an endorsement of that particular product it represents the current trend of craft whiskey distilling, which is, regardless how good Hudson's whiskey is, very important to the whiskey industry today.

 

I haven't had their baby bourbon, but I have had their rye, which is about as good as most other craft ryes - which is to say not very good, but might be decent with another 4-8 years on it. Craft whiskey is in general overpriced as well. I don't think I've ever tasted a craft whiskey that I liked more than a $13 bottle of Ancient Age, but I don't think I've paid less than $40 for a bottle of craft whiskey. However, there are craft distilleries opening all the time, and who knows, maybe in 8 years we'll have a glut of absolutely fantastic whiskey from smaller distilleries.

Edited July 25, 2017 by EarthQuake

[DonutsNBourbon]

20 hours ago, BottledInBond said:

I understand that this isn't supposed to be all about the quality of the current products, but I can't support Hudson Baby Bourbon being on any such list. Crap product, overpriced, and I don't think their stuff is getting any better as time goes by. I think I could make arguments for plenty of other more worthy replacements. Just my opinion though of course

 

haha, my sentiments exactly...  

[smokinjoe]

On 7/24/2017 at 7:01 PM, BottledInBond said:

I understand that this isn't supposed to be all about the quality of the current products, but I can't support Hudson Baby Bourbon being on any such list. Crap product, overpriced, and I don't think their stuff is getting any better as time goes by. I think I could make arguments for plenty of other more worthy replacements. Just my opinion though of course

 

The write up is spot on:

"Imagine an America with no craft distilling scene.  It wasn’t too long ago. New York’s Tuthilltown Spirits, the state’s first whiskey distillery since Prohibition, helped to change that."

“Without the tremendous efforts by founder Ralph Erenzo in passing the Farm Distillery Act of 2007 in New York,” said whiskey writer Heather Greene, “the massive proliferation of distilleries across New York State—arguably one of the U.S.'s hot spots of bourbon production outside of Kentucky—may not have flourished.” Tuthilltown’s flagship product was its Baby Bourbon, put out in a squat little 375 ml bottle that soon found a place in many bars and liquor stores. Many other fledging distillers followed Tuthilltown’s example. The oldest bourbon out there? No. The best? No. But few bottles have so altered the course of bourbon history."

 

 

Great!  Heather recognizes that Hudson Baby Bourbon is significant and important  in bringing umpteen hundred shitty bourbon makers on stream.    

Edited July 26, 2017 by smokinjoe

[Harry in WashDC]

1 hour ago, smokinjoe said:

 

The write up is spot on:

"Imagine an America with no craft distilling scene.  It wasn’t too long ago. New York’s Tuthilltown Spirits, the state’s first whiskey distillery since Prohibition, helped to change that."

“Without the tremendous efforts by founder Ralph Erenzo in passing the Farm Distillery Act of 2007 in New York,” said whiskey writer Heather Greene, “the massive proliferation of distilleries across New York State—arguably one of the U.S.'s hot spots of bourbon production outside of Kentucky—may not have flourished.” Tuthilltown’s flagship product was its Baby Bourbon, put out in a squat little 375 ml bottle that soon found a place in many bars and liquor stores. Many other fledging distillers followed Tuthilltown’s example. The oldest bourbon out there? No. The best? No. But few bottles have so altered the course of bourbon history."

 

 

Great!  Heather recognizes that Hudson Baby Bourbon is significant and important  in bringing umpteen hundred shitty bourbon makers on stream.    

Not all those shitty bourbons have such cute-as-a-button bottles as T's HBB, though.  When I am looking for bourbon to try, I ALWAYS reach for the wonderful-looking bottle.  Don't believe me?  Come look at my clunker shelf.

 

OTOH, thanks to Vosgar for posting and to Chuck and Fred Minnick who have commented elsewhere on why and how they participated.  I, too, could argue why one or another of the 25 should be replaced by one or another bourbon, but I won't.  Objectively, I don't know enough about the business.

[EarthQuake]

My empty Hudson Rye bottle doubles as a flower vase. Same for Barterhouse and Few Rye bottles.

[PaulO]

I looked at the article again.  No Jack Daniel's?  The TTB considers it bourbon.

[Harry in WashDC]

12 hours ago, PaulO said:

I looked at the article again.  No Jack Daniel's?  The TTB considers it bourbon.

That is one I would put on MY top 25 if only because it attracted TONS of casual drinkers to the joys of neat drinking and drinking only on the rocks or with a little water.  IOW, like Maker's, it made drinking American whiskey by itself, as distinguished from cocktails like the Harvey Wallbanger,  cool instead of just something my grandfather did.  On the front porch.  Alone after dinner.

 

OTOH, this could be read with Chuck's article which points out some history.  If we were talking about the 25 Most Important Historical Bourbons, Forrester's bottle, Taylor's BIB, etc., could be substituted.  But then, I don't think bourbon enthusiasts read F&W for its spirits stories, and the average F&W reader likely is not a bourbon geek.

[lcpfratn]

I would have included Jack Daniel's in the 25 list too. Jack Daniel's was probably more influential early on in introducing Europeans to bourbon (yes it is bourbon even though it prefers the Tennessee Whiskey title in order to differentiate it from other bourbon [emoji6]) than any other bourbon brand. I could usually find JD twenty years ago in many parts of Europe, but little else as far as bourbon goes.


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[Richnimrod]

I finally took the time to read the 25-Most Important Bourbons article, as well as Chuck's critique....

 

I don't entirely agree with Chuck; but, for the most part I do. 

The '25-Bourbons' article, for me was a big disappointment.     Although, a few of the examples were well reasoned and likely would make my own list (not that anybody would read it, or care in the first place), a large number seemed more like advertising than reasoned support for a brand (or even line) of Bourbon.    Chuck's point about not a single example of something no longer available (or produced) is spot-on.     Nobody can tell me (and expect me to believe it) that no Bourbon previously-produced-but-no-longer-available was more important than the current (and awful; to my taste buddies at least) Hudson's Baby Bourbon.      Nor that THE MOST IMPORTANT BOURBON Ever Made is Maker's Mark.     Come ON!    Is Maker's good?   Sure it is.     Is it extremely consistent?    Absolutely (not necessarily a trait I universally worship, but yes).       Is it a part of Bourbon's re-emergence as an important spirits category?    Sure... a PART.    But making it THE TOP ONE?    Puhleeeeeeeeze!

Still an interesting and thought-provoking article, so not all bad.... just rather disappointing .... to me at least.     I felt that the possibilities it promised were never approached, let alone achieved.    I'd give it a D+, and call it perfunctory; but that is of course just my own opinion.

[Charlutz]

Meh. These types of articles and lists are designed to generate controversy, discussion and above all else, clicks. They always throw in some random controversial opinion. I don't get too worked up about it. 

[tigerlam92]

Good try but really didn't do much for me and was missing so much.

I agreed with Chuck.

Also pic for VVOF was VSOF, two different thing.

Maybe the audience wasn't meant for us ...

[musekatcher]

I appreciate all the writers and references in the article, and they did hit the right modern brands of merit, but aren't these all current production brands, perhaps OT and Old Fitz as exceptions?  How were Brown-Formans important brands left out?  What about new direction brands from the past like AA?  If "flavored" bourbons rate as a bourbon, why not a monongahela style rye? 

Edited July 29, 2017 by musekatcher

[Jackinbox]

I found this blurb regarding Weller 12 interesting.....

 

"Weller is often sought by Pappy chasers, owing to its wheated mashbill (it has the same wheat-heavy recipe as Pappy, but aged differently), and its heritage."

 

I always thought that any barrels rejected by the Van Winkles ended up bottled as Weller.  So does this mean that most of the Weller line is bottled from different floors/warehouses ?   

Edited August 1, 2017 by Jackinbox

[LongGone]

2 hours ago, Jackinbox said:

I found this blurb regarding Weller 12 interesting.....

 

"Weller is often sought by Pappy chasers, owing to its wheated mashbill (it has the same wheat-heavy recipe as Pappy, but aged differently), and its heritage."

 

I always thought that any barrels rejected by the Van Winkles ended up bottled as Weller.  So does this mean that most of the Weller line is bottled from different floors/warehouses ?   

 

I'm paraphrasing a bit here i'm sure but the Whiskey Tree speaks to this question - Weller 12 and Lot B are identical - same juice, same age. Only difference is Van Winkle family gets first pick of barrels.

 

[fishnbowljoe]

9 hours ago, Jackinbox said:

I found this blurb regarding Weller 12 interesting.....

 

"Weller is often sought by Pappy chasers, owing to its wheated mashbill (it has the same wheat-heavy recipe as Pappy, but aged differently), and its heritage."

 

I always thought that any barrels rejected by the Van Winkles ended up bottled as Weller.  So does this mean that most of the Weller line is bottled from different floors/warehouses ?   

 

6 hours ago, LongGone said:

 

I'm paraphrasing a bit here i'm sure but the Whiskey Tree speaks to this question - Weller 12 and Lot B are identical - same juice, same age. Only difference is Van Winkle family gets first pick of barrels.

 

 

The exact arrangement that Julian has with BT is uncertain. There's been speculation about two possibilities. One is that the barrels destined for the Van Winkle products are located in specific warehouses and/or floors of certain warehouses. The second, and more widely accepted explanation is that Julian pretty much has his pick of the wheated barrels when they come of age.

 

Cheers! Joe

[Jackinbox]

2 hours ago, fishnbowljoe said:

 

 

The exact arrangement that Julian has with BT is uncertain. There's been speculation about two possibilities. One is that the barrels destined for the Van Winkle products are located in specific warehouses and/or floors of certain warehouses. The second, and more widely accepted explanation is that Julian pretty much has his pick of the wheated barrels when they come of age.

 

Cheers! Joe

 

It's been a few years, but I thought I remembered listening to a podcast interview with Preston saying that any barrels they reject get bottled as one of the Weller expressions.  Of course that doesn't mean that the majority of it isn't stored elsewhere.  Obviously, they aren't just going to throw those barrels away, so I guess it's just common sense.  

 

It was just the part about Weller being "aged differently" in the article that caught my attention.

[PaulO]

Another thought - I just don't see the BT Experiments making the list.  I think it's just a gift shop gimmick.  These end up being expensive 375ml bottles.  I've heard some are ok, others not so good.  The fact these almost never get mentioned around here says a lot.

[Jackinbox]

4 minutes ago, PaulO said:

Another thought - I just don't see the BT Experiments making the list.  I think it's just a gift shop gimmick.  These end up being expensive 375ml bottles.  I've heard some are ok, others not so good.  The fact these almost never get mentioned around here says a lot.

 

I agree.  I like the idea behind it, but there's just no way I would consider it in a list of the 25 Most Important Bourbons.