Elmer T Lee & Weller Special Reserve

[typf2]

1 hour ago, HoustonNit said:

At least your right next door to Kentucky. If you like Blanton's you should like ETL. Another option for the same mashbill is Abraham SB.

 

Is Abraham Bowman Small Batch hard to find? I don't think I've ever seen that in stores (haven't heard of it until now, so I can't say that I've been looking hard for it either).

[typf2]

1 hour ago, CardsandBourbon said:

I'm a fan of both WSR and ETL.  They're as hard to find around here as in Indiana.  Prices also vary based on where you live, availability, whether you're in an ABC controlled state, etc.  

 

Anything Mash Bill #2 from BT is high on my list of must haves.  Those include Hancock's President's Reserve, ETL, Blanton's & RHF.  I think I'm going to have them put he loved Mash Bill #2 on my tombstone.  Also, any of those on the list that people have suggested would be good to try.

 

That's hilarious  I bought a bottle of Buffalo Trace last weekend for $19 in Northern Indiana. I believe that's Mashbill #1 and I really enjoyed that bourbon!

[HoustonNit]

 
Is Abraham Bowman Small Batch hard to find? I don't think I've ever seen that in stores (haven't heard of it until now, so I can't say that I've been looking hard for it either).

I can find Bowman Brothers small batch pretty easily and the John J. Bowman SB 100 proof with a little more searching around and still much easier than Blanton's and definitely ETL.

[CardsandBourbon]

53 minutes ago, typf2 said:

 

That's hilarious  I bought a bottle of Buffalo Trace last weekend for $19 in Northern Indiana. I believe that's Mashbill #1 and I really enjoyed that bourbon!

You're right, regular BT is Mash Bill #1.  Also a solid pour.  I'll always have a bottle or two of that around.

[smokinjoe]

4 hours ago, HoustonNit said:

If you like Blanton's you should like ETL. Another option for the same mashbill is Abraham SB.

Bowman's historically have been the  regular BT#1 mashbill to start.  In other words, not the Blanton's, ETL, RHF, et al, mashbill.  Obviously things can change, but it shouldn't be said that it is the same as these others.  

[NDN98]

6 hours ago, typf2 said:

One of my good friends that got me started on whiskey lives in Texas. He scored a half gallon and a fifth of Weller 12 outside of his hometown near San Antonio two weeks ago that had me extremely jealous! Is WSR easy to find where you are?

WSR is very easy to find.  OWA is a little harder to find and W12 depends on hitting the right store at the right time.  We are certainly blessed here in regards to Weller.  One of my local stores has an OWA store pic that will be available Saturday and I am looking forward to trying it, as I have not seen an OWA store pick/barrel pick in quite some time.

[namadio]

Welcome to the site!  I gave up calling at around 500 calls and never got through to a human.  Only got the voicemail 4x.  Word on the street is they got autodialed to the tune of a 1/4 million calls.  Wish I would've thought of that ;D  Swear that call in shit is more archaic method than names out of a hat but I did get a booker's rye there last year so can't complain too much...

 

Remember callin into radio station contests back in the day?  I can't either because that shit is olllldd dschool.

 

Good luck at the Expo!  Definitely try those MM store picks.  If they are the same ones the chain has in stock currently, a few were very good.

[namadio]

2 hours ago, smokinjoe said:

Bowman's historically have been the  regular BT#1 mashbill to start.  In other words, not the Blanton's, ETL, RHF, et al, mashbill.  Obviously things can change, but it shouldn't be said that it is the same as these others.  

I thought they said it was both mash bills?  Am I making that up?  I couldn't find it on the googles but work filters any useful site I ever want (besides SB)

[smokinjoe]

11 minutes ago, namadio said:

I thought they said it was both mash bills?  Am I making that up?  I couldn't find it on the googles but work filters any useful site I ever want (besides SB)

They had definitively said in the past it was only BT#1 (deceased MD Truman Cox I believe).  There has been some rumoring that a guy talked to a guy that heard somewhere that they have used both....    Like I said, things can change, so who really knows.  But, from statements made in press releases on some LE Bowman releases, the Takara Shuzo connection, and simple demand on the MB#2 recipe labels, I find it unlikely that there is much (if any) of it going to Bowman.  

[Harry in WashDC]

2 hours ago, smokinjoe said:

They had definitively said in the past it was only BT#1 (deceased MD Truman Cox I believe).  There has been some rumoring that a guy talked to a guy that heard somewhere that they have used both....    Like I said, things can change, so who really knows.  But, from statements made in press releases on some LE Bowman releases, the Takara Shuzo connection, and simple demand on the MB#2 recipe labels, I find it unlikely that there is much (if any) of it going to Bowman.  

FWIW, on the one occasion I asked him about the mash bill, Brian Prewitt, the Master Distiller, said the ASB policy is not to talk about mash bills.  However, on an other occasion and shortly after Mr. Cox died, I was the only person on a tour, and the guide said they'd been using the same mash bill for Va Gentleman and the Bowmans at least since Saz/BT acquired it in 2003 although he was quick to point out that ASB redistills the new make they get from BT before aging and bottling on premises.  And, IIRC, one of the older threads here does have a posting by Truman Cox saying it was BT #1 but I went looking for it a few minutes ago and couldn't find it.  Couldn't find the thread with Truman on it, either.

[fishnbowljoe]

11 hours ago, typf2 said:

Yes sir. The pour list looks great, and the lotteries are always fun! I'll try and add that list here so that everyone can chip in if there's any must sample whiskeys that I need to try!

I meant no ill will either. Indiana and Illinois sometimes have the same things in generally the same price range. That's why I posted what I did. I hope you have a great time at the tasting. Please post and let us know how that goes.

 

FWIW, I now live in Illinois, but I was born and raised in Indy. Beech Grove to be exact. I miss Indy a lot for numerous reasons. Hell, it's 5 hours closer to Kentucky from where I live now! 

 

Sláinte! Joe

[DCFan]

Tuesday is the delivery day at my local ABC. When I got word the EC23 I had won was ready for pickup I stopped in and asked what "special" deliveries they got today he said ETL but it was already sold out. They also got a few bottles of Blantons and BT but I'm already set with them so I left them on the shelf.

[HoustonNit]

From the online sources I saw from a simple google search is Bowman uses both mashbills and I suspect #1 used on Virginia Gentlemen and possibly #2 on the Bowman extension. Or heck they may use whatever makes more sense for BT at the time of delivery. I think it seems more likely they use both vs. just one.

[Clueby]

2 hours ago, DCFan said:

 They also got a few bottles of Blantons and BT

Only a few bottles of regular BT? Is it in short supply again in some markets?  It's as plentiful as JBW around here.

[smokinjoe]

18 hours ago, HoustonNit said:

From the online sources I saw from a simple google search is Bowman uses both mashbills and I suspect #1 used on Virginia Gentlemen and possibly #2 on the Bowman extension. Or heck they may use whatever makes more sense for BT at the time of delivery. I think it seems more likely they use both vs. just one.

Like I said, they may use both mashbills at Bowman (though I believe even if they do, Mashbill #2 would represent a very, very, small minority IMO), but the fact that the white dog distillate is re-distilled, then aged in Virginia rather than Kentucky, makes any comparison of a BT #2 bourbon and a possible Bowman #2 bourbon to determine sameness a rather futile exercise.  

 

 

Edited November 29, 2017 by smokinjoe

[Paddy]

^^^^Whatever it is, I will say that it tastes (to me) like a more refined version of HPR and/or ETL than anything else I can think of. 

 

I'd assume that the re-distillation has something to do with that, as both the HPR and ETL can be a bit rough around the edges with some of the batches I've encountered.

 

My conspiracy theory of the day is that this is where all the AAA 10 year went!   

[HoustonNit]

Like I said, they may use both mashbills at Bowman (though I believe even if they do, Mashbill #2 would represent a very, very, small minority IMO), but the fact that the white dog distillate is re-distilled, then aged in Virginia rather than Kentucky, makes any comparison of a BT #2 bourbon and a possible Bowman #2 bourbon to determine sameness a rather futile exercise.  
 
 

I agree with everything you said but am curious why you think they have so little mashbill #2? They seem to have some very popular SB brands from the Ancient Age, MB2 but not a very popular bottom/mid shelfer like BT fills with MB1. Don't they need a large number of barrels to select from to fill SB offerings of RHF, Blanton's ETL and Hanncock's?

[smokinjoe]

32 minutes ago, HoustonNit said:

 

I agree with everything you said but am curious why you think they have so little mashbill #2? They seem to have some very popular SB brands from the Ancient Age, MB2 but not a very popular bottom/mid shelfer like BT fills with MB1. Don't they need a large number of barrels to select from to fill SB offerings of RHF, Blanton's ETL and Hanncock's?

 

Why do I think they don't have a lot of Mashbill #2?  Because, I don't see people reporting that they're drowning in availability if ETL, RHF, Blanton's, Hancock's...These all have been tough finds for a number of years...

Back on to your original point, I don't think Bowman is a brand to look for as another option for the #2. 

[Guss West]

Too funny! 

 

Just because they were a PITA to get, I've got those very four lined up on the "glory shelf" right now! 

 

MB2 FTW! 

 

 

[HoustonNit]

Why do I think they don't have a lot of Mashbill #2?  Because, I don't see people reporting that they're drowning in availability if ETL, RHF, Blanton's, Hancock's...These all have been tough finds for a number of years...
Back on to your original point, I don't think Bowman is a brand to look for as another option for the #2. 

Ok totally agree with your logic on the 2nd point.

On the first point I'm not stumbling over Blanton's or any of the MB2 offerings in Texas, however I find regular Ancient Age even less often. When I'm in France Blanton's is in almost every grocery store and from what I understand all the single barrel MB2 is somewhat common in Japan. Don't you need a large amount of barrels to select from for these SB offerings, maybe not ? Is so where are the other barrels going?

[smokinjoe]

3 hours ago, HoustonNit said:

Don't you need a large amount of barrels to select from for these SB offerings, maybe not ? Is so where are the other barrels going?

 

Perhaps.  But, they're choosing from these barrels post aging.  Your entire theory seems to be based on an assumption that any left over barrels of BT#2 after fulfilling the TS labels need a home, and that home must be Bowman.  But, the BT distillate for Bowman usage is going to them right off the still as white dog.  I don't see any linkage here.  If there are in fact any excess barrels of aged BT2 barrels that don't make the cut for TS labels, they most likely would be absorbed into BT's lineup.  Indeed, there are first hand reports from there that BT2 barrels have been dumped into ER10.  Another outlet could be NDPs.  Bowman would not be an outlet for these aged barrels from what we know of how they work, as they only procur white dog from BT. 

[starhopper]

On ‎11‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 8:07 AM, typf2 said:

Unfortunately here in Indiana, when i can get Blanton's, I have to pay $55 to $64 for it. I do have two bottles right now, so far it has been hands down the best whiskey I have had yet. 

Those are reasonable prices for Blanton's!  It's jumped to $99 in my neck of the woods (Middle Georgia).  WSR, though, is all over at 17.99 for 750ml

[Jazz June]

I had a some what similar experience with Weller SR. I had read so much good stuff about all things Weller that when I randomly saw two bottles of Weller SR on the shelf for $20 each, I quickly bought them. I was excited to try them, but disappointed when I actually did. At least it was an inexpensive way to learn that the hype around some bourbons has gotten out of control. I think it's good to remember that this is a bourbon with a low MSRP for a reason, not a limited edition which is supposed to represent the best of the best. It's good for the price, but not intended to be the best wheater you will ever drink.  I will say that when I tried Weller 12, I was very impressed and continue to find it very good, so I'm definitely not bashing Weller in general.

 

I sometimes wonder if the people at Buffalo Trace are amazed that there is such hysteria over even some of their lower end offerings, but I give them credit for not jacking up all of their prices. It seems to me that among the major distilleries they are the ones who could try to take advantage with price increases the most, but have done so the least. Looking at special edition prices, BTAC and PvW 15 are still $100 and under MSRP while other LEs rocket to $200 and more. And while MSRP is almost irrelevant for these products, that's not the distilleries' fault.

 

As for Elmer T. Lee, I think it is really good and, while the price has crept up, still one of the best values in bourbon. Blantons is semi-available here, but it is $60. Elmer can be hard to find, but it is possible and even with some increases is only $38. Hancocks and Rock Hill Farms are essentially unavailable here as Virginia is fulfilling existing wait lists, but they are also significantly pricier than Elmer.

[typf2]

4 hours ago, starhopper said:

Those are reasonable prices for Blanton's!  It's jumped to $99 in my neck of the woods (Middle Georgia).  WSR, though, is all over at 17.99 for 750ml

Wow! Maybe I need to consider stocking a few more bottles then. I'm sure I'm not the first around here to do it, but I'm collecting all of the horses and going to make a track out of a barrel, and put a horseshoe in the middle to hold a bottle. Nice decorative piece thanks to stealing clever ideas from around the world wide web!

[Jazz June]

I too have been interested in the BT#1 versus BT#2 thing. My assumption is that there is some sort of contractual control of the BT#2 recipe by Age International. Age International owns all of the brands that I understand BT#2 to be used in. They need someone to make the whiskey and Buffalo Trace does that (as the distillery did when AI owned it as well). This could easily be pursuant to a deal struck when the distillery was sold to Sazerac (I wonder how long such a deal might last, could it be as long as AI wants?). Why would Buffalo Trace continue to use quite a bit of whiskey, which is in very high demand, to support AI and the AI brands? I also assumed this was because of a contractual obligation to do so. I further assume that BT does enough to meet those obligations, but not more and that this is why there is never going to be an excess of the BT#2/AI brands on the shelves, other than Ancient Age as a bottom shelf product. I was on a tour at BT and asked some of these questions, but the guide couldn't or wouldn't answer them. This and BT's general unwillingness to provide details about the mash bills is consistent with trying to maintain a trade secret, although I may just be thinking that because it is the world I work in. Mash bills don't seem to be a big, important secret to many other distillers, but maybe this too is a contractual issue for BT.

 

Based on this understanding, it seems unlikely to me that Bowman would get BT#2, but I'm guessing at a bunch of stuff so I don't really know. The mention above of BT#2 being used in ER10 would contradict the idea that there is such tight control over the recipe by AI, but it could have been with their permission. I seem to remember a comment from Chuck Cowdery on his blog that all BT#2 went into AI products and none into non-AI products.