Has anyone experimented with miniature barrels?

[alcoholica]

I've recently seen a couple videos of people experimenting with miniature barrels (1L, 2L, etc) with cocktails. I was curious if anyone has any experience barreling spirits? Buffalo Trace did some small barrel experiments and they reported negative results. I am somewhat skeptical as they have not released results from "failed" experiments before. Some claim that a 2L barrel will age a spirit 1 year for every 80 days, so it'd be interesting to see what some younger spirits would do in the mini barrels.

 

Anyone trying any of this?

[BottledInBond]

There have been previous threads on this topic. In general, I would say that the overall view of these little barrels is negative on this forum. I am in the camp that thinks they are stupid in terms of practical aging of whiskey. In my opinion, they look cool sitting on your bar, and they can be fun to use for making a barrel-aged cocktail before hosting a party, but I think that’s the extent of their usefulness

[flahute]

As BIB said, lots of threads about this in the archives. Try using google to search for them. (Works better than the native search function).

Some have had success with aging cocktails, one or two got OK results with very short duration aging of already aged bourbon they poured out of a purchased bottle. I'm not aware of anyone who got good results out of aging white dog. 

Anything you read about small barrels aging a spirit x number of years for every x number of days is pure hogwash. Don't fall for it. Yes, you can get color faster, but you don't get the same flavors. Not even close.

[BottledInBond]

Building on what Flahute said, yes you can get color from the char, but the flavor and mellowing just don’t happen. The magic of aging whiskey is in the slow process of the juice being pulled in and out of the wood mainly due to to the seasonal weather fluctuations. If you dump some white dog in a little barrel in your house for a few weeks, that doesn’t happen. Further, craft distillers that use smaller barrels generally suck, even if they age it for a year or two with weather fluctuation exposure. 

 

We we live in a world of technology. If there was a way to really speed up the process of aging fine whiskey, it wouldn’t just be something people did at home. The big boys would do it, because faster aging would mean higher profit margins. But smaller barrels do not accomplish the same quality of product, proven time and time again. And all that other crap like TerrePURE is just gimmicks until they can bring to market a product that tastes better than a traditionally made product, which they certainly can’t so far. 

[Surtur]

I was given a mini barrel as a Christmas gift last year, 1 liter. Being someone that tries to appreciate every gift I'm given, I tried it out 5 times with positive results. Mind you, I would never throw anything especially rare or expensive in the barrel, nor will the end product be the same as actually aging whiskey, but try it out just for fun if you like.

 

My first batch was Weller SR. I aged it for one month, tasting it every week to see progress. Being the first time I ever used this barrel, it changed rapidly and had a very strong vanilla/oak taste at first, until I decanted into a bottle that I then left open for a few hours here and there to air out. It is now very good. Obviously you can't put it in and have a bottle of Pappy come out the other side but I am happy with this bottle.

 

Second I aged three separate bottles of Wild Turkey 101 for 3 weeks each. I did the first batch of Turkey the same way, trying it every week. After three weeks it was so good that I pulled it out for fear of ruining the flavor by over-aging. This was still my favorite bottle I've done yet. The next two bottles I gave away as gifts because the 2 people that sampled my Turkey loved it. Imagine everything good about WT ramped up a bit, fuller mouth-feel, bolder flavor, nice dark color.

 

And lastly I got a cheap bottle of scotch at Trader Joe's to try in the barrel, Finlaggan Islay malt. One month in the barrel and it came out with an overall better taste than before, but nothing special.

 

As mentioned by other posters previous to me, most people have a negative reaction to mini barrels, but it's all about context. As I said, you aren't going to change your whiskey's genetics completely. What you put in is what you get out. It was a fun project that I would like to mess around with more in the future, maybe try leaving a bottle for 2 months now and see what happens. Just beware if you do buy one, it can very easily and quickly over-do your whiskey and ruin it so check it frequently. Treat it as you would vatting/blending, nothing more than a fun experiment to have a good time.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Surtur

[WhiskeyBlender]

Surtur, what flahute and BottledInBond have said regarding small barrels is absolutely spot on. To expound upon it, the problem is that with a small barrel, the extraction rate will always exceed the oxidation rate. This means that what will be initially extracted by the whiskey from a barrel are the free, unbound caramelized wood sugars, vanillins from the oak's lignin, lactones, and tannins. Thus, if you nose a bourbon that has been aged in small barrels, you can smell the initial caramel, vanilla, and maybe a little coconut that has been extracted, but the aromas will be very simple. If you taste it, these notes will pass rather quickly.

 

However, when bourbon is properly aged in a 53 gallon barrel and allowed to adequately mature, you'll notice that you still get the caramel, vanilla, toffee, coconut, etc., aromas, but given the fact that in a larger barrel, oxidative reactions between the whiskey and oak extractives are allowed to occur, and longer molecular chains are created, the taste and aromas are much more complex. The tannins will be much more relaxed, and will provide good structure to the bourbon, rather than creating aggressivity and harshness in the spirit. 

 

Also, the oak staves used for 53 gallon barrels will generally be better quality than those used for small barrels. This, too, can make a big difference in regard to quality of the whiskey. 

 

There have been many attempts at accelerated maturation for 70 or 80 years or so, but so far, nothing beats time in the cask. 

Edited January 1, 2018 by WhiskeyBlender
Forgot to add a few words and had some grammatical issues

[Surtur]

On 12/31/2017 at 6:25 PM, WhiskeyBlender said:

Surtur, what flahute and BottledInBond have said regarding small barrels is absolutely spot on. To expound upon it, the problem is that with a small barrel, the extraction rate will always exceed the oxidation rate. This means that what will be initially extracted by the whiskey from a barrel are the free, unbound caramelized wood sugars, vanillins from the oak's lignin, lactones, and tannins. Thus, if you nose a bourbon that has been aged in small barrels, you can smell the initial caramel, vanilla, and maybe a little coconut that has been extracted, but the aromas will be very simple. If you taste it, these notes will pass rather quickly.

 

However, when bourbon is properly aged in a 53 gallon barrel and allowed to adequately mature, you'll notice that you still get the caramel, vanilla, toffee, coconut, etc., aromas, but given the fact that in a larger barrel, oxidative reactions between the whiskey and oak extractives are allowed to occur, and longer molecular chains are created, the taste and aromas are much more complex. The tannins will be much more relaxed, and will provide good structure to the bourbon, rather than creating aggressivity and harshness in the spirit. 

 

Also, the oak staves used for 53 gallon barrels will generally be better quality than those used for small barrels. This, too, can make a big difference in regard to quality of the whiskey. 

 

There have been many attempts at accelerated maturation for 70 or 80 years or so, but so far, nothing beats time in the cask. 

 

I feel like I said everything you did in my post? No, a mini barrel is nowhere near the same thing as actual aging. I did however, have minor success with my few little experiments as far as adding some new flavor to the bourbon. My Wild Turkey specifically came out with the implication of maybe another year or two of age, not much, but it was fun and tasty. This is also coming from someone who has possibly had more Wild Turkey products than all other brands combined.

 

My main point to OP was that just because mini barrels will get a turned up nose by many, if you want to try it out then it is worth it. I specifically noted the same thing I have told several people about these barrels, you cannot put whiskey A in the barrel and create whiskey B. OWA cannot become Pappy, nor can Elijah Craig 12 become an 18. Think of the process as like gardening or something similar, it was fun to go to the garage every day and rotate the barrel, move it’s position, etc.

[Saul_cooperstein]

I am a month or so into aging some home made fermented pepper hot sauce in mini barrels. Perhaps if not great for whiskey the mini barrels can do some good for other products...will report back on results. 

[EarthQuake]

Over the past year I've done countless experiments with 1L oak barrels, I've had 5 or 6 of them. These experiments are fun, and can result in quite good results depending on what you're attempting to do.

 

As others have stated, you can't age new make and expect it to taste good or take properly aged whiskey and turn it into the equivalent of whiskey aged for a longer time in full size barrels. It's just not the same, for reasons already explained. So if that's what you're trying to do, forget about it.

 

That said, my best experiments have been using the barrels to give various whiskey blends a secondary finish. Generally I will take some port, madeira or sherry and let it rest in the barrel for 2-3 weeks, dump it, and fill up with whiskey. My best results have been a mostly WhistlePig blend finished in a port barrel, and High West RR/Russel's Reserve Rye Single Barrel blend finished in a madiera barrel. I find that soaking the barrel in some other spirit really helps to cut down on the sour, harsh oakiness of the freshly charred barrel (a note that I get from a lot of craft whiskies aged in smaller barrels). Usually I only keep the whiskey blend in for 4-6 days or so, with barrels this small that's enough time to soak up a lot of flavor, and longer can really overdo it. If you overdo it, blending in more of the unadulterated base spirit will generally sort it out. Most of my secondary finish experiments with bourbon have been failures, pairing a fortified wine with bourbon seems to be a lot more difficult than with rye.

 

I've used 2nd or 3rd fill barrels to age gin, old fashioneds, negronis, and orange bitters as well, which all worked quite well. After a couple fills, you can leave the alcohol in for longer periods of time, as much of the flavor has already been extracted. Usually after the 3rd fill or so I find the effect of the barrel is greatly diminished, at which point I buy another barrel and start over.

 

As far as throwing whiskey directly into one of these barrels, my results have been very mixed. A few days can result in a slight improvement, but it's very easy to overdo it and ruin the whiskey. In my experience you can't take a bad whiskey and make it good, but a decent whiskey can get a little smoother with a bit of additional flavor in a short amount of time. Again though, I wouldn't bother with these barrels for this purpose, you're better off simply buying better whiskey! Saying that, if you want to get creative with your experiments, these barrels can be a lot of fun.

 

I will also concur that the quality of these barrels leaves something to be desired. I've had a number of them leak, so I usually keep them in glass pie tins to catch anything that comes out. The last barrel I had simply had an off flavor, which it imparted on everything I put in the barrel. That one was a total lost cause.

 

Edited January 4, 2018 by EarthQuake

[Bourbon Fanatic]

1 hour ago, EarthQuake said:

Over the past year I've done countless experiments with 1L oak barrels, I've had 5 or 6 of them. These experiments are fun, and can result in quite good results depending on what you're attempting to do.

 

As others have stated, you can't age new make and expect it to taste good or take properly aged whiskey and turn it into the equivalent of whiskey aged for a longer time in full size barrels. It's just not the same, for reasons already explained. So if that's what you're trying to do, forget about it.

 

That said, my best experiments have been using the barrels to give various whiskey blends a secondary finish. Generally I will take some port, madeira or sherry and let it rest in the barrel for 2-3 weeks, dump it, and fill up with whiskey. My best results have been a mostly WhistlePig blend finished in a port barrel, and High West RR/Russel's Reserve Rye Single Barrel blend finished in a madiera barrel. I find that soaking the barrel in some other spirit really helps to cut down on the sour, harsh oakiness of the freshly charred barrel (a note that I get from a lot of craft whiskies aged in smaller barrels). Usually I only keep the whiskey blend in for 4-6 days or so, with barrels this small that's enough time to soak up a lot of flavor, and longer can really overdo it. If you overdo it, blending in more of the unadulterated base spirit will generally sort it out. Most of my secondary finish experiments with bourbon have been failures, pairing a fortified wine with bourbon seems to be a lot more difficult than with rye.

 

I've used 2nd or 3rd fill barrels to age gin, old fashioneds, negronis, and orange bitters as well, which all worked quite well. After a couple fills, you can leave the alcohol in for longer periods of time, as much of the flavor has already been extracted. Usually after the 3rd fill or so I find the effect of the barrel is greatly diminished, at which point I buy another barrel and start over.

 

As far as throwing whiskey directly into one of these barrels, my results have been very mixed. A few days can result in a slight improvement, but it's very easy to overdo it and ruin the whiskey. In my experience you can't take a bad whiskey and make it good, but a decent whiskey can get a little smoother with a bit of additional flavor in a short amount of time. Again though, I wouldn't bother with these barrels for this purpose, you're better off simply buying better whiskey! Saying that, if you want to get creative with your experiments, these barrels can be a lot of fun.

 

I will also concur that the quality of these barrels leaves something to be desired. I've had a number of them leak, so I usually keep them in glass pie tins to catch anything that comes out. The last barrel I had simply had an off flavor, which it imparted on everything I put in the barrel. That one was a total lost cause.

 

I just got a mini barrel for Christmas from the parents and I am curing it right now to seal it up..  I'm definitely going to give the port/Sherry finish a try. I like finished whiskey, for the most part, and don't care for over-oaked whiskey.

 

Cheers!

[GaryT]

As other have said - search the forums for details/stories.  I was one of the fortunate ones to have a good experience on my first fill of a 5 liter barrel, which I filled with various bourbons and ryes (and not all "young stuff", things like Bookers, etc).  Aged for a couple of months, and thought it did improve it a bit - but it can go south quick.  I also filled a 1 liter barrel with port (filled it with marbles so as not to have to throw out an entire liter of port!) and then dumped, rinsed, and filled with rye.  That didn't work very well - way too much port influence.  I've had much better luck taking a small piece of an oak stave, throwing it in a jar with port for a while, toasting it after (toaster oven worked for me), and then putting into a whiskey.  Took a bottle of Talisker 10yr and turned it into "port finished" and was very pleased with the result.  

 

The rye that went into my 1 liter port barrel is going to have to be cut several times (as I'm too damn cheap to throw it out and consider it ruined - it was 6-8 yr SAOS rye which I'm hopeful will mingle with other similarly aged/proof rye to create something I enjoy).

 

Oh - something else I learned with the port in the barrel - the proof/sugar ratio is much different than with whiskey, and the outside of the barrel started to get mold after a bit.  

[WhiskeyBlender]

15 hours ago, Surtur said:

 

I feel like I said everything you did in my post? No, a mini barrel is nowhere near the same thing as actual aging. I did however, have minor success with my few little experiments as far as adding some new flavor to the bourbon. My Wild Turkey specifically came out with the implication of maybe another year or two of age, not much, but it was fun and tasty. This is also coming from someone who has possibly had more Wild Turkey products than all other brands combined.

 

My main point to OP was that just because mini barrels will get a turned up nose by many, if you want to try it out then it is worth it. I specifically noted the same thing I have told several people about these barrels, you cannot put whiskey A in the barrel and create whiskey B. OWA cannot become Pappy, nor can Elijah Craig 12 become an 18. Think of the process as like gardening or something similar, it was fun to go to the garage every day and rotate the barrel, move it’s position, etc.

Oops, I meant to direct my comment to Alcoholica, the original poster, not to you. Didn't mean to cause offense if I did. 

Edited January 5, 2018 by WhiskeyBlender

[Surtur]

No offense taken. I am horrible and remembering people’s real names, let alone their online handles.

[jbutler]

On 12/31/2017 at 8:49 AM, BottledInBond said:

There have been previous threads on this topic.

Here, for example.