I.W. Harper 15

[BigSkyDrams]

Noticed several bottles at a local LS last weekend. Running $78 apiece. This brand/bottle has kind of flown under my radar, but I was researching recently on what higher-aged bourbons might be available to add to my shelf, and found this to be one of the few generally available bottles that has above a 12 year age statement.

 

After reading about it, though, it seems to have some lukewarm reviews, and considering the other great bottles I could get for less cash, I’m on the fence for picking one up. So, I wanted to put it out to the SB community: have you had it? Opinions? Flavor? Value at $78? What say ye?

 

Also, are there any other higher age stated (as in > 12 years) bourbons generally available that I’m overlooking? 

 

p.s. I used the search function before posting, and couldn’t locate much except passing references in the popular threads (purchases, enjoying, etc.) so apologies if I overlooked something,

[flahute]

I have one. It’s good but not one I’m looking to replace. That’s not a bad price. You should scratch the itch and when you finish it you have a classy decanter. 

[hugh jass]

 I liked it.  Good, solid bourbon but pushes the envelope on value. Certainly I’d prefer to drink ER10 or Henry McKenna single barrel. Does give you some interesting barrel and spice notes from the age. Much prefer EC18 as a higher aged bourbon. Not a ton of nuance in the Harper. If you’ve never had it and don’t find the price offensive as a value buyer then I’d recommend it. 

[DCFan]

2 hours ago, BigSkyDrams said:

After reading about it, though, it seems to have some lukewarm reviews, and considering the other great bottles I could get for less cash, I’m on the fence for picking one up. So, I wanted to put it out to the SB community: have you had it? Opinions? Flavor? Value at $78?

It’s hardly talked about here because everyone has suspicions about this because of the price. Aside from the fancy looking bottle there isn’t much going for this to make people want to buy another when it’s gone. Look through the empty bottle thread, I can’t remember when anyone emptied a bottle. And the same in the what did you buy thread, no one buys the stuff. To me I conjure up the image of a marginal bourbon that’s well aged and comes in a perfume bottle. 

[DCFan]

I should add that if you’re looking for some aged bourbon I’d suggest Barterhouse and Rhetoric. They’re a little more expensive than the perfumed stuff but still attainable with a little looking.

[silverc]

I think the IW Harper 15 is the perfect example of an ABC bourbon. An amazing nose, maybe the best I've ever smelled on a bourbon, with a pretty meh palate, and a short, tannic finish. I was really disappointing in the palate and finish after smelling it for 15 minutes before even trying it.

 

Yes, the bottle is cool, but the juice isn't great and the price is pretty steep. I'd try it before getting a bottle yourself.

[BottledInBond]

Take many of the comments here and apply them to many of the Diageo products. On average, they are underproofed and overpriced for what they are. Decent looking bottles, but the reason much of their “orphan” barrels were not previously bottles probably has more to do with the quality of the juice and much less to do with a highly sophisticated multinational corporation not being able to keep track of thousands of barrels in their inventory. I’m biased here as I really don’t like Diageo, clearly. That said, I also am not in the camp that believes that older = better. If you do want some older juice just for the sake of having older juice, the best value recently has been KCSB store picks. I have seen 13 and 14 year old barrels recently, at 120 Proof of course, and under $50. I’ll take those any day over the Harper 15 at $78 personally. 

[PaulO]

I wonder what all these Diageo sourced barrels were originally intended to be; as in who distilled it and what's the mash bill?

Not knowing the provenance keeps me from parting with big $.

Also, the new IW Harpers got only so-so reviews around here.

I had hoped another reasonably priced bond would have been part of the re-release in the US (like the original IW Harper).  No such luck.

[Paddy]

Like others, I found it to be a muted expression... which left me thinking of what it could have been had it been bottled at the proper age and proof. 

 

Edit:  I did make a decanter out of my empty! 

Edited January 24, 2018 by Paddy

[hugh jass]

I thought the Breaking Bourbon review was fair if you want another view. Maybe a little generous. Anyway, it’s not as medicore as some might lead you to believe. 

[flahute]

4 hours ago, PaulO said:

I wonder what all these Diageo sourced barrels were originally intended to be; as in who distilled it and what's the mash bill?

Not knowing the provenance keeps me from parting with big $.

Also, the new IW Harpers got only so-so reviews around here.

I had hoped another reasonably priced bond would have been part of the re-release in the US (like the original IW Harper).  No such luck.

Not sure about Harper, but most of the Orphans came from Bernheim 86% corn distillate.

[fishnbowljoe]

A number of years ago I was very fortunate to have found multiple 50 mls of all the selections from the BHC. The IW Harper was my least favorite of the five. Every since then, I've shied away from any Harper mostly because of that. FWIW, I actually gifted my remaining BHC Harper minis to a member here because I knew was a Harper fan.

 

Biba! Joe

[BigSkyDrams]

Thanks guys. Based on the feedback I think I’ll pass... I may buy it sometime later, but I will have a hard time justifying it now, due to some idiosyncratic thinking I cant really justify. Namely, this LS (my primary one) does a members program where you get $0.05 credit for every $1 spent... I’ve saved up about $80 at this point, and since it’s basically a free bottle, I want to make it something special and that I ordinarily wouldn’t spring for. That may mean paying some out of pocket for something even costlier, and using the credit to lessen the sting... come to think of it, they still have some KO Rye ... anyway, if I’m feeling flush sometime in the future maybe I’ll take a shot on the Harper.

Edited January 25, 2018 by BigSkyDrams

[BigSkyDrams]

20 hours ago, silverc said:

I think the IW Harper 15 is the perfect example of an ABC bourbon. An amazing nose, maybe the best I've ever smelled on a bourbon, with a pretty meh palate, and a short, tannic finish. I was really disappointing in the palate and finish after smelling it for 15 minutes before even trying it.

 

Yes, the bottle is cool, but the juice isn't great and the price is pretty steep. I'd try it before getting a bottle yourself.

Not really on topic, but I had some Johnny Drum Private Stock last weekend, and it was exact opposite: almost offensive on the nose, thought it would be painful to drink, but something completely different and quite tasty on the palate and finish. Nosing is great and all, but I think I’d prefer the latter experience. 

[EarthQuake]

I.W Harper is 15 year juice distilled at New Bernhiem. The flavor profile is very similar to Orphan Barrel Forged Oak, Barterhouse, Rhetoric, and Elijah Craig 18, because this is all basically the same stuff (though the mash bills are supposedly a bit different) with different degrees of aging. Of all of these the Forged Oak is my least favorite while Rhetoric 23 is my most favorite, but they're all in my general wheelhouse.

 

At $80 or so, I would pick up Barterhouse rather than I.W. Harper, for this style I think it's safe to say Barterhouse is the best value. However, if you can't find Barterhouse, the Harper 15 is a suitable replacement. Forged Oak isn't a bad choice either but it often runs in the $75 range, FO at $55 or so is a great buy. The IW Harper bottle makes a nice decanter too.

 

All of these are oak forward, subtle pours. Incredible nose. Palate is very smooth, sweet pastry balanced with tannic oak, baking spice, long leather and oak finish. My main complaint with all of them is that the proof is a bit low (sometimes I vat a bit of Barterhouse and Stagg JR, which is just about perfection), so don't expect a big punch in the mouth of flavor. I wouldn't drink them with ice, water, or in a cocktail, but neat they are very nice. I really enjoy this flavor profile, and anytime I can get Barterhouse for less than $100 shipped/with tax, it's an instant buy.

 

I think Diageo get's a bad rap with all of these. We're talking quality 15-23 year old bourbon here for $65-130, that you can actually buy at retail without ransoming your children or getting your entire extended family to sign up for a lottery. If this was a BT or even HH product people would be smashing in windows to get it. Honestly, the EC 18, which again is basically the same flavor profile and proof, tends to sell for around $200. Even compared to the $120 retail for EC18, these Diageo bottles are generally a bargain.

 

Sure, Eagle Rare 10 year is an excellent buy, but it's not 15-23 years old, and ER 17 is a unicorn so it's not even worth considering the retail price point. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of ER10, I just don't think it has anything on Barterhouse.

 

That said, if you're not comfortable plopping down $80 for a bottle, find a pour of one of these Diageo fellows at a bar.

Edited January 25, 2018 by EarthQuake

[BigSkyDrams]

@EarthQuake thanks for the detailed info. Come to think of it, I believe this LS has some Forged Oak and other Orphan Barrel products in a front display, but I recall they were all priced >$100.... I’ll have to check those out in making this weighty decision. 

 

That’s sarcasm by the way, if I end up spending $80 on something I’m not in love with, it won’t kill me and I will still drink it empty over time. In my experience —excepting the very bottom shelf and NGS products masquerading as whiskey — no bourbon is bad, they’re just all different degrees of good. 

[berto]

The bottle is pretty.  It suffers the typical Diageo flaw of low proof and over filtration making it a perfectly drinkable but utterly uninspiring and forgettable pour.  It's maybe $30 juice inside a $50 container.    

[Tony Santana]

I was unimpressed when I first tried mine (yeah, I bought one), but found it was a very pleasant butterscotch bomb after it had sat for awhile.  Enjoyed it.  Not sure I'd buy another, since I partly got it just because I thought it would be a good decanter when I finished with it, but I'm not kicking myself because I made the purchase.  I've spent my money on worse things.

[Special Reserve]

30 minutes ago, Tony Santana said:

I was unimpressed when I first tried mine (yeah, I bought one), but found it was a very pleasant butterscotch bomb after it had sat for awhile.  Enjoyed it.  Not sure I'd buy another, since I partly got it just because I thought it would be a good decanter when I finished with it, but I'm not kicking myself because I made the purchase.  I've spent my money on worse things.

Similar to the Harper BHC, except I got the BHC for $15/bottle.

[kevinbrink]

5 hours ago, berto said:

The bottle is pretty.  It suffers the typical Diageo flaw of low proof and over filtration making it a perfectly drinkable but utterly uninspiring and forgettable pour.  It's maybe $30 juice inside a $50 container.    

By this definition then Michter's 10 is 10 dollar bourbon in a $90 container unless the 4.4 proof it has over the OB stuff and Harper 15 brings it up to $15/$85? If I was going to buy heavily filtered bourbon I would take Barterhouse over Michters 10 every day. I'm not a huge fan of either but I will agree with some of the others here in stating that once you get past the dopey stories some of the OB stuff is unique at it's price point. 

[lcpfratn]

By this definition then Michter's 10 is 10 dollar bourbon in a $90 container unless the 4.4 proof it has over the OB stuff and Harper 15 brings it up to $15/$85? If I was going to buy heavily filtered bourbon I would take Barterhouse over Michters 10 every day. I'm not a huge fan of either but I will agree with some of the others here in stating that once you get past the dopey stories some of the OB stuff is unique at it's price point. 

Oooh...I like Barterhouse, but I don't know if I like it better than Michter's 10! As the old saying goes, "different strokes for different folks."


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[kevinbrink]

7 hours ago, lcpfratn said:

Oooh...I like Barterhouse, but I don't know if I like it better than Michter's 10! As the old saying goes, "different strokes for different folks."


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Admittedly my experiences with Michters are limited and not likely to be expanded, at all.

[EarthQuake]

Maybe if one were able to buy PVW15/20/etc year for what they sold for 15 years ago, IW15, Barterhouse, etc would be overpriced, but that's not the reality we live in today. There are literally no other options in the 15-20 year range at this price level, so it's difficult to understand how anyone could come to the conclusion that IW15 is $30 whiskey - compared to what exactly?

 

I tried a recent release of M10, I thought it was okay, but not much better than the regular NAS Mitchers, which is to say good but nothing special. Apparently the previous releases had older stock in them, but I haven't tried those so I can't compare. In any case M10 is a good example of why OB products are generally a solid value, M10 is pretty standard 10 year bottling, most complaints one would throw at IW15/OB products apply to it as well (low proof, overly filtered) it retails at $120, and usually is marked up to $150+. Compare that to Barterhouse which you can get with relative ease at $80-100 and it puts it all in perspective. If nothing else Barterhouse is a consistent product, which is more than I can say for anything Mitchers releases.

 

At the end of the day, I'm glad most people don't think much of Diageo's 15-20 year standard releases, it means I can actually buy them! I should probably stop trying to convince people how good this stuff is.

Edited January 26, 2018 by EarthQuake

[lcpfratn]

Maybe if one were able to buy PVW15/20/etc year for what they sold for 15 years ago, IW15, Barterhouse, etc would be overpriced, but that's not the reality we live in today. There are literally no other options in the 15-20 year range at this price level, so it's difficult to understand how anyone could come to the conclusion that IW15 is $30 whiskey - compared to what exactly?
 
I tried a recent release of M10, I thought it was okay, but not much better than the regular NAS Mitchers, which is to say good but nothing special. Apparently the previous releases had older stock in them, but I haven't tried those so I can't compare. In any case M10 is a good example of why OB products are generally a solid value, M10 is pretty standard 10 year bottling, most complaints one would throw at IW15/OB products apply to it as well (low proof, overly filtered) it retails at $120, and usually is marked up to $150+. Compare that to Barterhouse which you can get with relative ease at $80-100 and it puts it all in perspective. If nothing else Barterhouse is a consistent product, which is more than I can say for anything Mitchers releases.
 
At the end of the day, I'm glad most people don't think much of Diageo's 15-20 year standard releases, it means I can actually buy them! I should probably stop trying to convince people how good this stuff is.

Your past praise of Barterhouse is what actually got me to buy my first bottle, and I have since bunkered a few more. I do like it and think it is fairly priced given its age. I just wish I could find it for the prices you reference, because it is always around $100, and sometimes a bit more in my area. Having said that, I think I do like the current release of Michter's 10 better than Barterhouse, but it does cost a bit more. I actually think Michter's has more complexity of flavor, while the extensive filtration of Barterhouse has rendered it less complex, but very easy drinking. I have not done a SBS comparison, so maybe I need to do that to convince myself that my position on preference holds up.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[lcpfratn]

Back on topic, I have a bottle of I.W. Harper 15 that I haven't opened, so I need to crack it open and compare it with some of the others being discussed here.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk