Are Restaurants and Bars Getting More Bourbon Savvy?

[FacePlant]

Yesterday after work I got together with an out of town friend. His employer sends him to Memphis several times a year. We decided to go to our old favorite watering hole. WOW, have they stepped up their game in the past month or two. In a visit before last night I noticed W12 and EC18 on the bar for the first time. For a year or longer they regularly offer ETL, OGD114, & CHET SiB BUT last night they had ECBP--B, WLW, GTS, PH 11, JDSB, and maybe another one or two I'm forgetting. I've seen a few bars that slowly build their selections over time but these guys must have hit the bourbon lottery in the past 30 days! The local BT distributer is quite stingy with allocating to the restaurants and bars, and usually the same high-end places have several of the tough pours, but something good is brewing at our favorite spot. Is this scene becoming more common across the country?

[EarthQuake]

I think so. I live in a small town (75,000 people), and we have two restaurants with very solid bourbon/whiskey lists. Orphan Barrel, Four roses limiteds, Wild Turkey MK, EC 18/21 and occasionally some Old Fitz, Pappy, and BTAC as stock allows. Plenty of more common stuff like Blanton's, CETH, Stagg Jr, Weller, etc as well. I had my first pour of WLW the other day, and have tried a number of other unicorns at these two places. The best part, it's in Iowa so it's rare that prices are much over $25 even for the unicorns, I think the WLW was $23 or something like that. I was in Hawaii last week at a fancy hotel bar and the prices went up to $125 per pour - ouch. Though to be fair to Hawaii/Honolulu, I also stopped at The Manifest, which had a number of BTAC pours for around or less than $20 (Handy and GTS at $18 I think), I ended up getting a FR Elliot's Select 2016 OESK for something like $16, which was excellent.

Edited February 1, 2018 by EarthQuake

[bayouredd]

I have to agree with the "I Think So", although it seems that you have to begin the conversation. They don't seem to volunteer the level of liquor available. You have to have done a bit of homework to realize what you are seeing on the shelves. If you want better than well drinks, they will suggest Bulleit or BT. I t you want a shot, a little better to taste, they offer Woodford, etc. When you get into a discussion about Boubon, the better stuff gets the mention.

 

We also have Old Hickory Whiskey Bar, that has BT as their well mixer. They are the biggest game in town, with most any pour you can think of, at a price & other bars/restaurants seem to have stepped up their game because of them...

[Clueby]

A little off topic, but I've noticed lately that certain brands must be doing marketing campaigns directly to and via bars.  Two bars recently have Elijah Craig (the regular NAS small batch) on the bar when it hasn't been there before.  There were also table tent cards touting the brand that looked like they were pretty professionally done (by distributor, distillery marketing, I don't know?)

[dcbt]

I think more bourbons are being earmarked for on premises accounts (vs retail stores), so while the allocation might not be shifting dramatically from bar to bar, there is probably more to go around and those that got next to nothing previously might now be getting a piece of the action...

[flahute]

The answer is yes. 

[bayouredd]

40 minutes ago, Clueby said:

A little off topic, but I've noticed lately that certain brands must be doing marketing campaigns directly to and via bars.  Two bars recently have Elijah Craig (the regular NAS small batch) on the bar when it hasn't been there before.  There were also table tent cards touting the brand that looked like they were pretty professionally done (by distributor, distillery marketing, I don't know?)

I don't think this is off topic at all...

To add to this, you have to look at the big picture of what our country has become. A Target Marketing Extravaganza; much to my dismay. These new folks with or without marketing degrees are truly go-getters. They are all up in the medical field, sports, etc. Why not distillers as well! They are bringing the marketing to the trenches. Hence as another post eluded to, more LS & bars getting their own barrels...

[Charlutz]

Yes, on premise proprietors have reacted and are reacting to the boom. While true, at this time of year you’re also going to be more likely to see the fall releases on the shelves perhaps giving the appearance they’ve stepped up their game. Maybe they’ve had them before but you didn’t notice because you were there in say, August. 

[Saul_cooperstein]

 Simple fact is that operators that are successful get out ahead of what their customers want. Where I live, 15 years ago premium vodka emerged. 10 years ago it was craft cocktails. 5 years ago craft beer. Now it’s brown spirits. Not just bourbon but boutique tequila growing quickly as well. And in the other direction distributors help operators down these paths pitching and pushing new additions...especially as production on manufacturer side picks up. Successful operators also often have leverage with their distributors, especially if they take product distributors want to move...Same as with a customer and liquor store, building a relationship with distributors is how better programs get built. 

[graftonbc1]

I would answer yes to this as well. In Worcester, MA, not far from me, there is a great whiskey bar that offers a great selection of bourbon, scotch, and other spirits. Also in Worcester, there is a gourmet burger joint set to open that gives co-star billing to the whiskey they will be serving up. In my old hometown of Pittsburgh, on the South Side where I grew up, there is a phenomenal speak-easy (newspapers in the windows) that offers very great and rare pours.

 

If you go to Foxwoods, Juniors restaurant has many great bourbons.

 

Is this a great country, or what?

[smokinjoe]

Clearly, the answer is yes.  And, the increase in bourbon choices at restaurants runs the gamut from high-end steakhouses to burger joints and generic national chains.  All aboard the Bourbon Express!  Indeed, many restaurants sell enough bourbon now and are focusing their efforts to meet the desires of their customers, to even have a private selection barrel offering always available.  

[Richnimrod]

Anecdotal, I admit, since I eat dinner out so rarely; but my experience in SE Michigan is that few are on the Bourbon Bandwagon in any sort of meaningful way as yet.    In general, most have added KC and maybe one other over the last couple years; but the only 2-I'm aware of to do any real stocking of Bourbon are both new-to-the-local-market Bourbon-featuring Bistros.    The other chains, as well as Mom & Pops are doing what they've always done... JD, JB, MM, maybe WT and now (maybe) KC.

[FacePlant]

11 minutes ago, Richnimrod said:

Anecdotal, I admit, since I eat dinner out so rarely; but my experience in SE Michigan is that few are on the Bourbon Bandwagon in any sort of meaningful way as yet.    In general, most have added KC and maybe one other over the last couple years; but the only 2-I'm aware of to do any real stocking of Bourbon are both new-to-the-local-market Bourbon-featuring Bistros.    The other chains, as well as Mom & Pops are doing what they've always done... JD, JB, MM, maybe WT and now (maybe) KC.

Until the bowling alleys step it up, things might move slow in the Burbs.

[Richnimrod]

1 hour ago, FacePlant said:

Until the bowling alleys step it up, things might move slow in the Burbs.

Hey!    Everything always  moves slowly in the burbs.   Even the bowling alleys.     We like it like that!  

Speaking of bowling alleys and slowly; you oughta see my current efforts therein.    ...Two hands, and about walking speed down the alley to the pins!   HA! 

[Kane]

My impression is that even if they are not all that savvy, they are making an obvious attempt to give that impression. Every time I probe for one, they will always get a bourbon conversation going. Sometimes it's going to be all BS, but there will be a conversation. Clearly the folks in that industry are very much aware of the boom, and want to be a part of it.

 

8 hours ago, graftonbc1 said:

I would answer yes to this as well. In Worcester, MA, not far from me, there is a great whiskey bar that offers a great selection of bourbon, scotch, and other spirits. Also in Worcester, there is a gourmet burger joint set to open that gives co-star billing to the whiskey they will be serving up. In my old hometown of Pittsburgh, on the South Side where I grew up, there is a phenomenal speak-easy (newspapers in the windows) that offers very great and rare pours.

May I please learn the name of those two Worcester venues? BTW. I'm pretty sure I've been to that Pittsburgh place when I was interviewing at CMU a couple years ago, yelped for good cocktails, and landed there by chance. That's where I tried the Booker's 25th and many others. The owner was also great, poured me an ER17 2012 just because he didn't like it too much and wanted to chat about it.

[graftonbc1]

20 hours ago, Kane said:

My impression is that even if they are not all that savvy, they are making an obvious attempt to give that impression. Every time I probe for one, they will always get a bourbon conversation going. Sometimes it's going to be all BS, but there will be a conversation. Clearly the folks in that industry are very much aware of the boom, and want to be a part of it.

 

May I please learn the name of those two Worcester venues? BTW. I'm pretty sure I've been to that Pittsburgh place when I was interviewing at CMU a couple years ago, yelped for good cocktails, and landed there by chance. That's where I tried the Booker's 25th and many others. The owner was also great, poured me an ER17 2012 just because he didn't like it too much and wanted to chat about it.

The place in Worcester that is open now is called Whiskey on Water. It is on Water Street in Wormtown. A really great bar. The place that is set to open is going to be called Buck’s Whiskey and Burger Bar. It will be on Green Street. If you went to the place in Pittsburgh, you were standing on the very block where I grew up. 

[Surtur]

I’ve noticed the bars around me are not quite savvy in the way of what constitutes good bourbon, but they know what is rare and what can be marked up astronomically. My local bar has Lot B for $70 a pour, Birthday Bourbon for $75 etc. but when people ask them questions they give generic answers like “very good” and “smooth”. I wouldn’t call GTS smooth, myself. So yes, I think they are bourbon business savvy

[Tony Santana]

Around here we've slowly gotten more bars that actually tout themselves as whiskey bars.  One opened downtown about a year and a half ago that has an outstanding selection.   Some other places have slowly gotten better.  I don't regularly frequent bars, but the place I go where they know my name had JD, JB White, MM, WT 101 KC and one or two lower tier well bourbons 2 or 3 years ago.  Now they've got 4R SB, Bookers, Bulleit Rye, Woodford and a few others, as well as a slightly expanded Scotch selection.  Still no high end allocated bottles, but they've definitely stepped up their game.  On the other hand, there are still plenty of shot and a beer joints where something like MM will be the outlier "high end" bottle..  Craft beer seems to be making more inroads at those sorts of places.

[steve-in-kville]

My old haunt was an old hotel that used to be a dive but the new owners made it a bit more upper-end in the last 20 years. They had more brandy/cognac than whiskeys. JD and WT were about it, last I checked. maybe a Johney Walker and a scotch or two. That was about it, IIRC.

[tanstaafl2]

I am not so sure a lot of the places now carrying more bourbon are necessarily getting more savvy. The ones that already were still are but for some it is more dollar sign driven. Not sure that most of them know that much more about bourbon.

 

But they are certainly getting more directed to them.

[Harry in WashDC]

10 minutes ago, tanstaafl2 said:

. . . The ones that already were still are but for some it is more dollar sign driven. Not sure that most of them know that much more about bourbon.

 

But they are certainly getting more directed to them.

Some of the restaurants around us cater to a comparatively older demographic although quite a few "persons under 40" live and work in the area.  In restaurants attempting to attract the whole range of customers, I've noticed a broadening of bourbons available although I'm not sure that guarantees "savvidity".  For example, one place close to a university offers lots of craft drafts as well as early bird dinner specials.  It recently expanded its lines of bourbons and ryes - which means, for example, the whole JB line is available including the flavored whiskeys (although OGD BIB is not among the new additions).  The other day while taking advantage of early bird prices for a late lunch, I complimented the daytime bar manager on the expanded selection (WR expressions, Blanton's, the WT's, etc.) which, immediately, elicited the non sequitur, "Yeah, now if we could only get some Pappy, we'd have a great selection."  My reply, of course, was, "Well, having a bottle of Old Grand-Dad bonded would result in bigger tips from some of us."  And then there's the problem of price inflation - when there is no bourbon list, neat servings were reasonably priced if limited in selection.  When there's a list, nothing is under $10.  Imagine paying $11 for 2 ounces of WT 81.

[The Black Tot]

They know how to charge an obscene amount of money for a scientifically measured pour to fleece people who aren't strong enough to say no.

 

I guess that's savvy. But I've stopped going out to drink as a result of this present farce. 

[flahute]

1 hour ago, The Black Tot said:

They know how to charge an obscene amount of money for a scientifically measured pour to fleece people who aren't strong enough to say no.

 

I guess that's savvy. But I've stopped going out to drink as a result of this present farce. 

Indeed sir. I rarely buy bourbon at a bar or restaurant, but when I do, I look in that first tier of pricing (usually the $10-$12 range) and buy whichever is the best value of the group. (Blanton's is sometimes in this group). If they have WT101 for $7-$8, which often happens, I'll buy that and giggle while someone next to me is paying in the high teens for Michter's.

[The Black Tot]

I've been curiously lucky with Hancock's, but I don't expect it to last.

 

If it's proper bad, I'll have a well gin and tonic. They can stick their overpriced menu.

[gcdc]

35 minutes ago, flahute said:

Indeed sir. I rarely buy bourbon at a bar or restaurant, but when I do, I look in that first tier of pricing (usually the $10-$12 range) and buy whichever is the best value of the group. (Blanton's is sometimes in this group). If they have WT101 for $7-$8, which often happens, I'll buy that and giggle while someone next to me is paying in the high teens for Michter's.

The Volstead in Jacksonville only charges $9 for the Michter's bourbon or rye, but I imagine the Jacksonville market is significantly different than Seattle