New guy with another silly question

[Gunslinger686]

 Oak is primarily one of the major taste profiles in bourbon but I can’t taste it I’ve never chewed on a piece of oak so I don’t know what oak taste like( how do people know what oak taste like ).I can taste the  vanilla I can taste butterscotch & maple because I have tasted those things . I guess I need to go chew on a piece of oak and while I’m at it I guess I’ll chew some leather and rope. My question is ,what Is a readily available bourbon with a strong oak profile ?.... flame away ,,,,,,

Edited January 16, 2019 by Gunslinger686

[kevinbrink]

Well be sure to dry the oak for a few months and then Char it to get that real Bourbon Oak taste! In all seriousness Orphan Barrel Barterhouse or really any Orphan barrel, Elijah Craig 12 if you can find one. A good start might be comparing Woodford Double Oak to regular Woodford or Jim Beam Double Oaked to JB White and JB Black. 

[jeffrey r]

Not a bad question at all.  I don't generally eat wood either...   But once you've drank enough bourbon, including some young, and some old, you should be able to discern the taste of oak in the older bourbons.  Off the top of my head, there is really no better example on the market today than one of the older Knob Creek Single Barrel (120 proof) store selections.  I have some 14 year old selections, and they are definitely oaky, and only run you around $40-$50. 

 

I would love to be able to suggest Elijah Craig 12 and Weller 12 to you, but while those may be available to me in my bunker, they are not readily available in the marketplace.  Maybe Henry McKenna 10 Year or Eagle Rare 10 Year as alternatives.

 

I would best describe the oaky experience as a bit dry and tannic.  While you may not compare it to actually chewing on wood, you should be able to see the relationship. Good luck.

 

[kevinbrink]

10 minutes ago, jeffrey r said:

Maybe Henry McKenna 10 Year or Eagle Rare 10 Year as alternatives.

McKenna 10 is definitely a good one to me, especially if you compare it to something like Evan WIlliams Bottled in Bond, same proof so the primary difference is time in wood. 

[FasterHorses]

Although not quite so old, I always get a strong new oak flavor when i drink Rowans Creek. It tastes like freshly cut oak planks smell in my opinion. Dry and woody. 

[CardsandBourbon]

Woodford Reserve Double Oak because . . . well duh.  The other one that I get a lot of oak from is KC SiB especially the PS ones that are are around 14 y.o.

[Gunslinger686]

14 minutes ago, jeffrey r said:

Not a bad question at all.  I don't generally eat wood either...   But once you've drank enough bourbon, including some young, and some old, you should be able to discern the taste of oak in the older bourbons.  Off the top of my head, there is really no better example on the market today than one of the older Knob Creek Single Barrel (120 proof) store selections.  I have some 14 year old selections, and they are definitely oaky, and only run you around $40-$50. 

 

I would love to be able to suggest Elijah Craig 12 and Weller 12 to you, but while those may be available to me in my bunker, they are not readily available in the marketplace.  Maybe Henry McKenna 10 Year or Eagle Rare 10 Year as alternatives.

 

I would best describe the oaky experience as a bit dry and tannic.  While you may not compare it to actually chewing on wood, you should be able to see the relationship. Good luck.

 

Tannic? Oh great another taste To decipher, I have drink Mccanna 10 I have a bottle of Weller 12 and have drink it before ,this oaks thing eludes me.  I will take that as a positive because I have a feeling that oak probably doesn’t taste good LOL. 

[jeffrey r]

7 minutes ago, Gunslinger686 said:

Tannic? Oh great another taste To decipher, I have drink Mccanna 10 I have a bottle of Weller 12 and have drink it before ,this oaks thing eludes me.  I will take that as a positive because I have a feeling that oak probably doesn’t taste good LOL. 

If you have Weller 12, then compare it to a Weller Special Reserve.  Same mashbill, similar proof, big difference in age.  If you can't taste what Weller 12 offers in relation to WSR, then you are beyond help, and kicked out of bourbondom.  I kid, I kid.  You should be able to taste at least some difference, but if you can't, then don't lose sleep over it.  Drink what you like, and don't get hung up on the descriptors.

 

Also, as Kevin mentioned, HMcKBIB compared to EWBIB is another good comparison.  EWBIB undoubtedly a good bit younger. 

Edited January 16, 2019 by jeffrey r

[kevinbrink]

I would also say that Oak isn't really a singular flavor in bourbon but kind of number of flavor notes, sometimes people say things like wood sap or pencil shavings in tasting notes and I don't think those are particularly positive notes but they would certainly be driven by the Oak.  As much as I love Whiskey whey I think of Oak one of the things that really comes to mind in terms of taste and smell is Central Texas BBQ some of those oak notes are interchangeable with whiskey notes as well. That being said can one of you Texas guys run down to Lockhart and ship me some BBQ? Thanks in advance.

[Gunslinger686]

 Jeffrey R,  Weller 12 has a bigger oak profile then the special reserve is that what you’re saying ? hopefully it is because this is what I’m looking for something where the oak definitely jumps out at me  in contrast to something where the oak is less prevalent .

[Don Birnam]

1 hour ago, Gunslinger686 said:

Tannic? Oh great another taste To decipher.

That's an easy fix.

Black tea that has been over-brewed is tannic.

Pomegranate is as well. The sugary juice drinks not so much though. Same with cranberry, eat a fresh cranberry, pucker up from the tannins.

 

As far as oak and tannin, score a hunk of oak, boil it, cool, take a sip (I wouldn't recommend swallowing), very 'oaky', a tea overpowered by bitter tannins.

Don't confuse the tastes of charred oak with oak itself, the char is mostly unflavored, then 'smoky', followed by sweet as you delve deeper to the raw wood. They all contribute to the flavor of the whiskey, the black charcoal acting as an activated carbon 'filter'.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Don Birnam

[lcpfratn]

To the OP, I believe you’ve received a lot of good suggestions to try and decipher what oak brings to the flavor profile of bourbon by tasting bourbons from the same distillery that are different for the most part by a significant age difference. You should be able to figure out from that what is meant by oak notes in the flavor profile of older bourbon. The strong tannic notes come in when a bourbon starts to become over oaked, but there are different levels of this, and some like those notes more than others. Another way to perhaps understand the tannic notes from oak is to look at the difference between a robust red wine and a sweeter fruitier red, white or blush wine. One of the big difference between the robust red wine and the others is the tannins in the robust red wine. To me, older bourbon is dryer and less sweet than the younger bourbons, and also usually less harsh in some respects, which is similar in many respects to my comparison to wine, although wine and bourbon get their different taste profiles through different means. I hope this helps.

[lcpfratn]

 Jeffrey R,  Weller 12 has a bigger oak profile then the special reserve is that what you’re saying ? hopefully it is because this is what I’m looking for something where the oak definitely jumps out at me  in contrast to something where the oak is less prevalent .

A comparison of Weller 12 to Special Reserve should definitely help you understand the difference in oak profile between the two caused by the longer aging in the barrel of W12.

[Kane]

Note that a huge component of what we register as flavor is actually smell, not only taste. So smell them flavor components, don't go chomping on grandpa's leather chair.

[Don Birnam]

Just now, Kane said:

Note that a huge component of what we register as flavor is actually smell, not only taste. So smell them flavor components, don't go chomping on grandpa's leather chair.

True, but a taste of clean leather won't do any harm.

Not that modern leather is tanned with tannin, but that is the root of the word tanning, tanning → tannin → derived from the oak tree.

As Paul Harvey used to say, 'Now you know the rest of the story'.

[El Vino]

Since 60% of your sense of taste comes from your nose, if you can’t find an oak barrel on display at some liquor store where you can take a whiff, find an old piece of dried oak and take a smell.  Not quite the same, but you will start to get the sense of it.  I usually describe oak profile as barrel notes.  I think I can distinguish the taste the liquid gets from the barrel in which it ages.  I think.

[FacePlant]

Yeah this ^^^^ above. Taste and smell are received by similar "receptors" triggering the brain to match it with something we've had and can relate to. Some individual people have more refined receptors and vice versa. Many taste descriptions can refer to a smell our brain remembers even though we haven't tasted it. During a scotch tasting one evening I tasted something very familiar but couldn't put my finger on it. The guy next to me says "this tastes like Band-Aids smell". That was it! 

[Gunslinger686]

Tracking down some WSR now ,really hope this works.  Here’s a short funny for you, this past weekend at a local watering hole with a friend who is less in the Bourbon than I am ,  we each got a flight of four different Bourbons so a total of eight, all of which we could not afford to buy a bottle of and we compare tasting notes don’t know how many times he said there is the oak  I wanted to choke him. Lol.We tried or stuff like PVW15,RHF,THH,ECBP ,EC23,W12,BT  experimental & Pendleton 20 yr .  This was my first time drinking  Pappy so I saved it for last to allow it to open up as much as possible in the glass was somewhat disappointed I thought the Weller 12 was in the same ballpark ,my favorite of the eight was the Thomas H handy  Best way to describe it was like a nuclear meltdown in my mouth so much going on with that one.  And yes we did clean our palette with lots of water between each tasting .

Edited January 16, 2019 by Gunslinger686

[smokinjoe]

If you leave a tiny bit of bourbon in a glass overnight.  It will evaporate and leave some residue in the bottom of your dried glass.  I find the smell of this to give a very good presentation of the oaky notes of the bourbon. 

[fishnbowljoe]

When talking about bourbon smells and tastes, here's my very simplified take on just a few things.

 

Oak=smoke

Leather=mustiness

Tannic=bitter

 

Like I said, very simplified. No comments from the peanut gallery please. 

 

Biba! Joe

[gurgalunas]

Try cutting up oak and splitting it for firewood.  That smell will never leave you.  In fact, nearly all wood has a unique scent.  I can usually tell what kind of tree I'm cutting just by the smell.

 

I usually try to leave the oaks on my property standing for the deer and turkeys, and accidentally started cutting one while doing a project one winter.  I barely got past the bark before I realized my mistake and stopped.  

[Curtis Reed]

If you want to taste barrel in a bottle, sample JB Devil’s Cut. Heavy, heavy on the barrel notes. 

[miller542]

7 hours ago, kevinbrink said:

I would also say that Oak isn't really a singular flavor in bourbon but kind of number of flavor notes, sometimes people say things like wood sap or pencil shavings in tasting notes and I don't think those are particularly positive notes but they would certainly be driven by the Oak.

 

Agree, and add to that wooden toothpicks.

Edited January 17, 2019 by miller542

[rjg1701]

I recognize the scent/flavor of oak from memories of wood shop in high school.  The scent of freshly sawed oak is heavenly. Same when hitting it with a power sander.

[Richnimrod]

15 hours ago, Gunslinger686 said:

Tracking down some WSR now ,really hope this works.  Here’s a short funny for you, this past weekend at a local watering hole with a friend who is less in the Bourbon than I am ,  we each got a flight of four different Bourbons so a total of eight, all of which we could not afford to buy a bottle of and we compare tasting notes don’t know how many times he said there is the oak  I wanted to choke him. Lol.We tried or stuff like PVW15,RHF,THH,ECBP ,EC23,W12,BT  experimental & Pendleton 20 yr .  This was my first time drinking  Pappy so I saved it for last to allow it to open up as much as possible in the glass was somewhat disappointed I thought the Weller 12 was in the same ballpark ,my favorite of the eight was the Thomas H handy  Best way to describe it was like a nuclear meltdown in my mouth so much going on with that one.  And yes we did clean our palette with lots of water between each tasting .

If you don't mind paying for the exercise again, buy two pours at the same time at this place: EC23 (VERY oaky) and any Heaven Hill Bib.    Taste 'em side by side (they are the same mashbill).    That powerful difference in the 23 is the oak (some just call it age).