Heaven Down Hill ?

[B.B. Babington]

pre-fire was another world.  sometimes evan williams SB better than parkers and EC18 for $35-40.  post-fire they seem to be more and more adopting Jim Beam model of quantity over quality.  we all saw loss of EC12 and unavailability of EC18.  okay, they have a barrel problem.  but why are brands becoming poorer?  I'm doing back to back screw top barreled 2004 McKenna 10 year to a barreled 2009.  No comparison.  The 2009 no different than an average evan williams SB.  Speaking of EWSB, I've a 9 year old "2010" that's not bad, better than the 8 year old 2011's and definitely better than 7.5 year old 2012's.  I did run across a good 2011 EWSB so bought 15 bottles to do comparisons.  So far others are weak, just one outlier.  I'm now drinking a newer ECBP which is okay, but my 2nd release (bad rep) is a lot better.  Hope this trend doesn't continue.

[Grain Belt]

Other than Knob Creek, who is adding age and lowering price?  What you just accused HH of is an industry-wide situation created by the bourbon boom. With basic economic principles, should HH create $12 bottles of 6  year old bonded bourbon, or revamp it and sell it for $40+ that the current market bears?  Not a tough decision. I loved walking into my local and grabbing a bottle of EC12 for $14.99. But, like my athletic ability, things change over time. Personally, I will not disparage HH, because I can regularly get  EW white handles for $19.99 on sale. I had to buy a full size truck to haul my stashes home! Happy summer and stay well!

[B.B. Babington]

it's mixed bag for BT.  AAA not 10 years anymore, but ER10 same as it was 30 years ago. 

 

WT just puts a price on it, I don't mind.

 

And what's with McKenna 10 year.  still BIB 10 year, but I find only 1 bottle out of 5 is much good, comparable to 10 years ago.  I've got a few old bottles to pull out for direct comparisons.  I did get one bottle about year ago that was very exceptionally good, had that "floral" HH aftertaste like get with EC18; but then I've had another half dozen that really weren't that much.

 

I've been part of the HH fandom for 30 years, think I'm moving back more to BT and WT

[PaulO]

I got out of the HMcK game when the price jumped.

EW BIB, JW Dant, and JTS Brown still work for me.

I was not at all happy to see the standard Old Fitz BIB get discontinued.  

Larceny has been inconsistent.  I had a good bottle early on.  After that, several not good.  Four year old Old Fitz BIB diluted down to Larceny strength would have been an improvement.  I don't know what the hell happened with that brand. 

[Bourbon Sabbath]

3 hours ago, Grain Belt said:

I will not disparage HH, because I can regularly get  EW white handles for $19.99 on sale. 

Testify! EW BIB is the best value bourbon for the taste on the shelves today. Thank you HH for Pikesville, EC, McKenna, Rittenhouse, & JW Dant. All solid brands. 

 

Realize this is post boom 2020, the bourbon world has changed greatly in the past 25 years. Quality bourbon is still available but will cost much more than in 1995.  I don't begrudge a distillery for making profit because its up to me to decide if I support them.

[tsangster]

Is anyone else finding EW BIB family size  bottles in short supply?  At least 3 stores around here have been out since Memorial Day.  Fortunately a 4th store is still stocked.

[flahute]

12 hours ago, B.B. Babington said:

pre-fire was another world.  sometimes evan williams SB better than parkers and EC18 for $35-40.  post-fire they seem to be more and more adopting Jim Beam model of quantity over quality.  we all saw loss of EC12 and unavailability of EC18.  okay, they have a barrel problem.  but why are brands becoming poorer?  I'm doing back to back screw top barreled 2004 McKenna 10 year to a barreled 2009.  No comparison.  The 2009 no different than an average evan williams SB.  Speaking of EWSB, I've a 9 year old "2010" that's not bad, better than the 8 year old 2011's and definitely better than 7.5 year old 2012's.  I did run across a good 2011 EWSB so bought 15 bottles to do comparisons.  So far others are weak, just one outlier.  I'm now drinking a newer ECBP which is okay, but my 2nd release (bad rep) is a lot better.  Hope this trend doesn't continue.

If you’ve read my year end state of the state posts in the past you will see some parallel themes to your post. In short, what we are experiencing is a lack of quality barrels. Barrels that used to not make the cut for particular brands and that would get dumped into budget brands (even at higher ages) now go into the brands we expect more of. It will be this way until the boom subsides or expanded capacity catches up. 

[fosmith]

2 hours ago, tsangster said:

Is anyone else finding EW BIB family size  bottles in short supply?  At least 3 stores around here have been out since Memorial Day.  Fortunately a 4th store is still stocked.

I've never seen a 1.75 of EW BiB.  I don't think they distribute it to No. Cal.  But I can get a 750 for around $12 so I'm not complaining.  It's the best value bourbon out there, IMO. 

[BottledInBond]

22 minutes ago, fosmith said:

I've never seen a 1.75 of EW BiB.  I don't think they distribute it to No. Cal.  But I can get a 750 for around $12 so I'm not complaining.  It's the best value bourbon out there, IMO. 

They never distributed them to Minnesota until 2020. But I’ve bought about 10 gallons worth this year

[fishnbowljoe]

3 hours ago, tsangster said:

Is anyone else finding EW BIB family size  bottles in short supply?  At least 3 stores around here have been out since Memorial Day.  Fortunately a 4th store is still stocked.

Only one store in my area (that I’m aware of) stocks handles, and they usually have a few on the shelf. A few stores carry 750’s though. 
 

Biba! Joe

[BottledInBond]

10 hours ago, B.B. Babington said:

it's mixed bag for BT.  AAA not 10 years anymore, but ER10 same as it was 30 years ago. 

 

WT just puts a price on it, I don't mind.

 

And what's with McKenna 10 year.  still BIB 10 year, but I find only 1 bottle out of 5 is much good, comparable to 10 years ago.  I've got a few old bottles to pull out for direct comparisons.  I did get one bottle about year ago that was very exceptionally good, had that "floral" HH aftertaste like get with EC18; but then I've had another half dozen that really weren't that much.

 

I've been part of the HH fandom for 30 years, think I'm moving back more to BT and WT

ER10 30 years ago was 101 proof. And then when they dropped the proof it was a single barrel product. And now it has the lower proof and is no longer a single barrel product......... so multiple changes

 

*I know some people will defend BT and claim ER is still basically a single barrel product but there are some technicalities for why they removed that from the label. But guess what? Plenty of other products are still effectively bottle a true single barrel product. Anything most producers do these days is for a reason and I am just generally suspicious of most motives these days until proven otherwise

[fishnbowljoe]

4 minutes ago, BottledInBond said:

They never distributed them to Minnesota until 2020. But I’ve bought about 10 gallons worth this year

Thanks for this post BiB. It reminded me of something that happened a number of years ago. Just after EW BIB started being distributed nationwide, I was at a store and happened to see a sales rep. I asked if they were going to get EW BIB. He got on his tablet and started typing. After a few minutes, he told me that he’d have it stocked in that store in two or three weeks. Three YEARS later, it finally happened. 

 

Biba! Joe

[Richnimrod]

Yeah, those distributor reps all use the same "program", I think!    Whatever it is you crave; we'll have it available within a few weex ................. ...................... ...................................... .......................................................................................... .......................................................................................................................................... .................................................................................................................................................................................................................... ...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

 

You get the idea.

[Grain Belt]

10 hours ago, BottledInBond said:

They never distributed them to Minnesota until 2020. But I’ve bought about 10 gallons worth this year

I’m not sure where you are in the fine state but Liquor Boy in St. Louis Park, just north of 394 has had 1.75’s of Evan White for at least 7 or 8 years. I know this because every time I would visit the area my truck would need to carry a little more weight for the 2 1/2 hour journey north. Now in my home area around Brainerd, we have had the 1.75’s about 2 years. 

[mbroo5880i]

21 hours ago, PaulO said:

I got out of the HMcK game when the price jumped.

EW BIB, JW Dant, and JTS Brown still work for me.

I was not at all happy to see the standard Old Fitz BIB get discontinued.  

Larceny has been inconsistent.  I had a good bottle early on.  After that, several not good.  Four year old Old Fitz BIB diluted down to Larceny strength would have been an improvement.  I don't know what the hell happened with that brand. 

I agree. Larceny? C'mon,  we want Old Fitz.

[BottledInBond]

11 hours ago, Grain Belt said:

I’m not sure where you are in the fine state but Liquor Boy in St. Louis Park, just north of 394 has had 1.75’s of Evan White for at least 7 or 8 years. I know this because every time I would visit the area my truck would need to carry a little more weight for the 2 1/2 hour journey north. Now in my home area around Brainerd, we have had the 1.75’s about 2 years. 

I’m in the Minnetonka area. I very rarely go to Liquor Boy. Not sure why I hadn’t seen it before recently. Not sure what LB charges for it but $19.99 at TW is a great deal. I don’t really like TW but I can’t deny that sometimes their pricing is hard to pass up.

 

What is your preferred store in the Brainerd area? I go through there a few times a year but have never found any store that impressed me much for their whiskey selection 

 

[Grain Belt]

10 hours ago, BottledInBond said:

What is your preferred store in the Brainerd area? I go through there a few times a year but have never found any store that impressed me much for their whiskey selection 
 

I think Cash Wise is the best(2 locations)  with Super One and Westside right behind.   The Baxter Cash Wise has Evan White handles and will have ECBP and higher level Wild Turkey most of the time. 

 

 

[kaiserhog]

Been buying 1.75 EW BIB at my local since 2014.  They never are out.

[mbroo5880i]

I haven't had an EWSB in several years.  My experience has generally been positive with the brand.  I used to like it as a lower proof sipper and change of pace.  However, as the price increased and the age decreased, I found I prefer other bottles in the same price range more.  A local chain has it on sale for $22.99 which about $4-5 cheaper than the usual price in my area so I thought I would buy a bottle to see where it is today. 

 

I saw a bottle that was slightly over 8 years old in one of their stores but passed since I was also looking for something else.  The second store had a bottle that was around 7 years 9 months so I bought it.  It is not extremely complex but has a nice baking spice and cherry spice flavor.  The finish is short.  It is not a bad bourbon.  I still prefer several options for a few bucks less or a few bucks more but I can see the appeal as a change of pace.   Does it compare to some of the stellar EWSB I had in prior years? No.  But, that's ok.

 

On a side note, I prefer EC NAS to EC12.  I couldn't drink EC18 as it was too oaky but I did love it when blended with EC12.  I have had many of the ECBP releases.  The first was the only one that I didn't enjoy.  I couldn't figure it out.  ECBP A120 is one of my favorites.  I found the sweet spot quickly and seem to be able to hit it every time.