Wrapping my head around Willett Family Estate Bourbon

[clearmoon247]

I know that, for the most part, all WFE Bourbon releases are still sourced, as they have an older age-statement than the time they have been distilling. If I understand correctly, it is primarily sourced from Heaven Hill. Should the assumptions be accurate, how comparable would a 12 year WFE bourbon compare to a standard release of ECBP? Outside of one being a batched product and the other a single barrel, on paper, they wouldn't seem too far apart from each other. Is the bottle and company selling the product worth 7 times the overall cost (assuming 12-year WFE is $600 and ECBP is $80)?

 

I fully understand that there are some hyper aged bottles of WFE that can potentially justify the cost to a degree (15-23 year+ releases), but how can a 6 year bottle go for such a high asking price, both at retail and secondary?

[PaulO]

You're asking the right sort of questions.

I'm by no means an expert on this.  Back in the early 2000s, I remember passing these up at $35 - $45.  There was so much other great stuff just sitting on shelves back then.

To answer your question, WFE has fans that will pay it.  Fans bid the prices up.  

Willett won't say who made it.  The consensus is most barrels came from HH, but occasionally there were some barrels from all but one of the big legacy distillers.

[geclbxf]

I have never been able to justify the pricing in my head, but perhaps we can hear from the fans who love it and their own "why".

[fishnbowljoe]

IMHO, timing is part of the reason Willett's pricing is so high. It took years for them to get their distillery up and running. Back in the day, when asked when were they gonna start distilling their own juice, the answer was,"Looks like next year."  Well, next year took a few years. Then came the boom. They finally started distilling, and by the time they started bottling their own distillate, they could basically charge a lot for their own stuff, and an arm and a leg for their sourced items. You know the old saying, "Timing is everything."  The timing and their reputation for some great sourced bottlings from the past, paved the way for their current success. 

 

Biba! Joe

[ThirstyinOhio]

On 6/22/2020 at 3:47 PM, clearmoon247 said:

I know that, for the most part, all WFE Bourbon releases are still sourced, as they have an older age-statement than the time they have been distilling. If I understand correctly, it is primarily sourced from Heaven Hill. Should the assumptions be accurate, how comparable would a 12 year WFE bourbon compare to a standard release of ECBP? Outside of one being a batched product and the other a single barrel, on paper, they wouldn't seem too far apart from each other. Is the bottle and company selling the product worth 7 times the overall cost (assuming 12-year WFE is $600 and ECBP is $80)?

 

I fully understand that there are some hyper aged bottles of WFE that can potentially justify the cost to a degree (15-23 year+ releases), but how can a 6 year bottle go for such a high asking price, both at retail and secondary?

I am a big fan boy of Willett but that doesn't mean what I'm about to say is right.  Yes, it is generally accepted as a fact by the bourbon community that most of their sourced barrels came from Heaven Hill, but I disagree when you make the comparison to a standard release of ECBP.  First, WFE is a single barrel product so its not fair to compare it to a large batch release like ECBP.  Second, they purchased a lot of these barrels several years ago and have been aging them on their property and location and design of the rick house will affect how a whiskey ages so it will be different.   Third, and this is where I am going to make a big presumption, is that since they were using a lot of sourced barrels for their various blends of pot still, JD, OB, and so on, that when they'd taste to select these barrels, they left behind the "best" ones, the barrels they thought stood out and would improve until such time that they pulled and bottled them and that is why WFE is considered by many to be superior than ECBP or some other HH product.  Heaven Hill has done similar things, look at the Parker's Heritage Collection 11 year single barrel release....isn't this basically ECBP except a full year younger and twice the price?  That being said, I have had many fantastic bottles of WFE of various ages, but I've have my share of average bottles too.  They charge what they do because they can and I think they'd be fools not to keep raising prices till they hit whatever level it takes to equalize out the supply vs demand...….even if my pocketbook disagrees with me. 

Edited June 25, 2020 by ThirstyinOhio

[geclbxf]

2 minutes ago, ThirstyinOhio said:

I am a big fan boy of Willett but that doesn't mean what I'm about to say is right.  Yes, it is generally accepted as a fact by the bourbon community that most of their sourced barrels came from Heaven Hill, but I disagree when you make the comparison to a standard release of ECBP.  First, WFE is a single barrel product so its not fair to compare it to a large batch release like ECBP.  Second, they purchased a lot of these barrels several years ago and have been aging them on their property and location and design of the rick house will affect how a whiskey ages so it will be different.   Third, and this is where I am going to make a big presumption, is that since they were using a lot of sourced barrels for their various blends of pot still, JD, OB, and so on, that when they'd taste to select these barrels, they left behind the "best" ones, the barrels they thought stood out and would improve until such time that they pulled and bottled them and that is why WFE is considered by many to be superior than ECBP or some other HH product.  Heaven Hill has done similar things, look at the Parker's Heritage Collection 11 year single barrel release....isn't this basically ECBP except a full year younger and twice the price?  That being said, I have had many fantastic bottles of WFE of various ages, but I've have my share of average bottles too.  They charge what they do because they can and I think they'd be fools not to keep raising prices till the hit whatever level it takes to equalize out the supply vs demand...….even if my pocketbook disagrees with me. 

Makes sense - thanks for the facts and your opinions!

[BottledInBond]

I like the WFE house distilled ryes and don’t mind paying the prices that I can get them for currently. But that’s like $48 for the 4 year. I would never personally pay the $600 or more that they’re charging for some of the sourced stuff currently. I do with I had bought a few of the 25 year rye when it was around but oh well, some people would think that was a stupid price too.

 

On the HH comparisons topic, one additional aspect that comes to mind is that they may, or may not, have been having their barrels contract distilled using different mashbills, yeast, proof, char levels, etc. Maybe they just bought standard HH barrels too, I’m not a Willett expert. 
 

But in general, it’s just supply/demand meeting. Willett is enjoying hype currently much like the Van Winkle line. Someone paying $2K secondary for a bottle of either is extremely hard to justify based on what you taste in your glass. But, there are people currently willing to pay it. For how long is another question.