Give opinions on whether or not to buy specific Bourbons

[BigRich]

43 minutes ago, smokinjoe said:

Pretty much the same reason you gave for not buying it in the first place.  Cost.  $150 for a bottle of bourbon is way past my comfort zone.  But, I’ve cleared that monetary hurdle before a time or two, and will do again.  However, I choke at those kind of cash outlays for unnamed sourced whiskey.  While the general specs of age and proof are solid, that pricing asked for them is 2 to 3 times what it should be, IMO.  
From a taste perspective, I don’t have any experience with this release.  I have had others in the line, as well as some of their standard bottlings.  The only one I hated was the first toasted barrel one, but the others were solid to good, so I believe Michter’s knows what they’re doing in picking whiskey to bottle.  But, that opinion does not allow me to recommend a purchase at $150 to myself, or others.  

In line with what Joe said, I've had a few.  I've never purchased them myself because of the cost.  Good bourbon?  Yes.  $150 good?  No.

[flahute]

23 hours ago, StarSurfer55 said:

So one that I have tried multiple times but just can’t seem to like was Smooth Ambler Big Level. 

Absolute swill.

[flahute]

On 10/15/2020 at 6:50 PM, Mano said:

 

I thought the whole point of this forum was to talk with others about bourbon and get their perspective and opinions on it.

If I was wealthy enough that "money is no object", sure, I could buy everything I see, take a sip and throw it away when I don't like it. I can afford to buy higher end stuff from time to time, but when it is something that looks interesting, but that I have never had nor is readily available in bars to try ( and at the moment, going out to bars to try is not an option ), I like to hear the opinions of people who have tried it.  I get that just because others like it doesn't mean I will, but if they tell me how it tastes to them, whiskeys that are similar, etc. it is better than having no information at all.  

The thing you have to remember about this forum is that it's mostly comprised of old timers who have little patience for overpriced sourced whiskey.

We were all newbies once and went down that path and we all learned that it wasn't worth it. This means that most of us pass on the current iterations thus meaning that you won't get much of a response. It's not personal.  

[PhantomLamb]

Just read the MMCS vs MM101 thread in tasting and now curious about the CS. It’s readily available here but with NAS and at $62 with very limited availability, thinking this is a hard pass.

 

Btw, just searched for this on FWGS and says it’s on “clearance” so may be the last of it I will ever see anyways.

[k-train]

2 hours ago, PhantomLamb said:

Just read the MMCS vs MM101 thread in tasting and now curious about the CS. It’s readily available here but with NAS and at $62 with very limited availability, thinking this is a hard pass.

 

Btw, just searched for this on FWGS and says it’s on “clearance” so may be the last of it I will ever see anyways.

That's $62 for the MM46 CS, right?

[PaulO]

I understand the interest to try new things.  Early on, my first visit to Liquor Barn in Louisville, I saw so many brands, wanted to try them all.  Then I started to notice, many were 80 proof, no age statement.  I figured it was probably a waste of time and money to mess with those.

Another category where I'm very skeptical is sourced barrels.  I will buy some, only if they meet several criteria.  Mostly I pass.

We see nowadays many of these instantly precious, put together, fancy bottle offerings.  The red flags go up for me.  If I wanted to spend big, I'd go to the gift shops of the legacy distillers, and get something with a solid back story, and real quality.

[smokinjoe]

10 hours ago, PhantomLamb said:

Just read the MMCS vs MM101 thread in tasting and now curious about the CS. It’s readily available here but with NAS and at $62 with very limited availability, thinking this is a hard pass.

 

Btw, just searched for this on FWGS and says it’s on “clearance” so may be the last of it I will ever see anyways.

If the MMCS you’re referring to is the “standard” Maker’s Mark Cask Strength, $62 is way over MSRP.  Pricing for this in most areas is $49.99, and in some (like here in GA) it has dropped to $39.99.  However, as k-train has reported, the price has returned to &49.99 in his NC.  IMO, MMCS is one of the best readily available (in most places it seems) barrel proof bourbons on the shelf.  The increase in proof really takes the standard to a new level.  More depth, flavor, fullness, and particularly extends the profile through the finish with much more gusto.  I was a somewhat regular buyer at $49.99, more as a treat to myself.  At $39.99, and fearing what K-Train  has seen as being a possibility here, I’m bunkering it.  That said, if it was $62 in my area, I’d splurge on it occasionally.  

[fishnbowljoe]

I’ve bought a couple of the MMCS’s since the price changed. The first one was a couple of years ago when the price (at least around here) dropped to $49.99. The most recent was a couple of months ago when the price dropped to $39.99. The price has now gone back up to $49.99. I also recently bought a MM46 on sale for $21.99 IIRC. It also seems the price on MMCS PS bottlings has dropped. I remember when they first came out, the prices I saw were in the $89.99 range. Then they dropped to $79.99. I bought one in KY at that price. One store here picked a barrel last year and the bottle price was $62.99. I bought a couple. They still have a few left, and it’s now priced at $59.99.
 

My how times have changed. I remember when MMCS was first introduced back in 2014. It was only available at the distillery, and 375’s were $39.99. I firmly believe that MM, whether through luck or planning, was ahead of the curve regarding the bourbon boom. I visited the distillery back in 2008, and a second still was in the works. (Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe they have three now.) New warehouses were also being built on the west side of Loretto. The last time I was there, three years ago, even more and larger warehouses were being built across the road from the regular sized ones. And then there’s the new, hillside storage and tasting facility for MM46 that came into being a few years ago. They can now age and bottle MM46 year round instead of just during the winter months.  IMHO, I believe that all these things have led to regular MM prices remaining stable, and to the lowering of prices on some of their other products. 

Makers was my gateway bourbon. It was also the first distillery I visited. (1991) Regardless of the fluff of their back story (cough cough), I will always have a soft spot in my heart for MM products. Also, and FWIW, Maker’s let MM Ambassadors suggest the name for their new product, MM46, years ago. Even though they chose their own name and didn’t use mine, I won’t hold that against them.   The name I suggested you ask?  Maker’s Mark, Mark II. Pretty good huh? 

 

Biba! Joe 

[k-train]

Current pricing for Maker's Mark offerings in NC looks like this:

MM - $30
MM Bespoke - $40
MM46 - $40
MM101 - $42
MMCS - $50
MMWFS (SE4 X PR5) - $60
MM46CS - $62
MMPS (6Y/108 proof) - $70

Unless there's something I'm not thinking about, it seems really strange to me that they have the PS $20 higher than the CS. It's 4 proof points lower & while it does have a 6Y age statement, isn't that really the same age the MMCS is rumored to be anyhow? 

[0895]

52 minutes ago, fishnbowljoe said:

Also, and FWIW, Maker’s let MM Ambassadors suggest the name for their new product, MM46, years ago. Even though they chose their own name and didn’t use mine, I won’t hold that against them.   The name I suggested you ask?  Maker’s Mark, Mark II. Pretty good huh? 

 

Biba! Joe 

 

You should apply for a job at Lincoln motor cars.

[fishnbowljoe]

For all intensive purposes, the MMPS is a MM46 CS private pick. Hence the price difference.

 

Biba! Joe

[smokinjoe]

27 minutes ago, 0895 said:

 

You should apply for a job at Lincoln motor cars.

Ahhh, brings back fond memories for me.  I had a 1996 pearlescent White Mark VIII that I absolutely loved.  And, to this day remains the finest car I’ve ever owned.  

[k-train]

51 minutes ago, fishnbowljoe said:

For all intensive purposes, the MMPS is a MM46 CS private pick. Hence the price difference.

 

Biba! Joe

Thanks! Wasn't aware of that, and that pricing scale makes a lot more sense to me now.

[Jazzhead]

I haven't tried the Yellowstone 2020 Limited Edition,  but it looks interesting to me.   There's not much out there about it,  and with a finished bourbon I'd like to read a few reviews first.   Some are delicious, some are abortions.

 

 Since I can't be of help with respect to the original inquiry,   here's a list of a few bourbons that are on the pricey side that I wholeheartedly recommend.    These are all,  IMO, WORTH IT:

 

Belle Meade Reserve:    well aged, curated  high-test MGP juice,   this is classic luxury in a glass.    

 

Peerless:   this is sweeter and more peanut-ty than BMR,   with quality that belies its age.   Also don't miss the other great craft sweet-mash bourbon,  Wilderness Trail,  especially the high-rye bourbon version

 

George Remus Repeal Reserve:   a rara avis aounnd these parts,   I've brought this back on the plane the last two time I've flown west of the Keystone state.    100 proof aged and curated MGP,  less than the 108.3 of the BMR. 

 

John J. Bowman  Single Barrell:   I don't miss that I can't get Blanton's when this stuff's around.    The best thing Buffalo Trace (sort of) makes.    

 

 

 

   

[BigRich]

7 hours ago, smokinjoe said:

If the MMCS you’re referring to is the “standard” Maker’s Mark Cask Strength, $62 is way over MSRP.  Pricing for this in most areas is $49.99, and in some (like here in GA) it has dropped to $39.99.  However, as k-train has reported, the price has returned to &49.99 in his NC.  IMO, MMCS is one of the best readily available (in most places it seems) barrel proof bourbons on the shelf.  The increase in proof really takes the standard to a new level.  More depth, flavor, fullness, and particularly extends the profile through the finish with much more gusto.  I was a somewhat regular buyer at $49.99, more as a treat to myself.  At $39.99, and fearing what K-Train  has seen as being a possibility here, I’m bunkering it.  That said, if it was $62 in my area, I’d splurge on it occasionally.  

I’ve got to find these magic $40 bottles you talk about.  I keep seeing $50-$55.  At $40 I might grab a case.

[Harry in WashDC]

On 10/15/2020 at 9:50 PM, Mano said:

 

I thought the whole point of this forum was to talk with others about bourbon and get their perspective and opinions on it.

If I was wealthy enough that "money is no object", sure, I could buy everything I see, take a sip and throw it away when I don't like it. I can afford to buy higher end stuff from time to time, but when it is something that looks interesting, but that I have never had nor is readily available in bars to try ( and at the moment, going out to bars to try is not an option ), I like to hear the opinions of people who have tried it.  I get that just because others like it doesn't mean I will, but if they tell me how it tastes to them, whiskeys that are similar, etc. it is better than having no information at all.  

I just reread the whole thread while watching ATL-LAD, and it's early enough that I've yet to get maudlin while sipping.  [ASIDE - Yeah, I'm getting close!]  Flahute's comment encouraged me to note that, even though you've only posted about a baker's dozen or so comments, I always read what you post.  From experience here, I've learned that a lot of SBers scatter their observations about particular brands and expressions on a handful of threads.  THIS thread should help us focus our comments, so THANKS.  One thing I do when some thread tweaks my interest OR some label appears in a store or two I visit is "Search" Topics and then Forum by brand name or label info to see what others here have said in BOTM, VBT, Tasting Notes, etc.  Over the years, I've sort of learned which SBers have a palate similar to mine - I'm on the sweet side (Saz/Barton instead of WT although WT is what I take with me when fishing, for example).  Recently, I did that with the Diageo releases named for bourbon personalities and found that I'd missed some really good releases because I don't care for how Diageo promotes their stuff with puff.

 

The Michters discussion here also hit home.  I have avoided their NDP releases for the last few years basically because I liked the taste of their brands (tasted in bars and restaurants years ago) but liked other things at the same price better.  It may now be time to go back to those bars and taste their recent releases.  Without this thread, I might have waited a few more years.

 

SO - again, thanks.  [OK, I admit to sipping while typing.]

[BottledInBond]

On 10/15/2020 at 9:13 PM, SteveoT said:

Care to explain?

I think there are quite a few people that are generally biased against Michter’s around here. Some people might just think $150 is too much to pay for the quality of what goes in your glass from this release. Others avoid Michter’s based on multiple additional factors, as some people consider them to be bullies, shady, non-transparent, and just out for cash grabs in general. Whether or not all of that is fair, is up to each of us to have our own opinions. To me much of those are valid issues. I’ve thought the quality of some of their releases were very good, largely 2014 and earlier. Even though that whiskey was delicious, I still didn’t like their business tactics. 
 

If I was going to buy anything they put out today it would probably be their barrel strength rye. I think that is still sourced juice, believed in general to be sourced from Brown Foreman. Only time will tell if their own distillate ever produces any great products, as they haven’t been distilling long enough to have made any of their age stated products yet. 
 

Do some searching for other threads on Michter’s/Chatham around here, they have been discussed many times.

 

cheers!

[BottledInBond]

On 10/15/2020 at 8:50 PM, Mano said:

 

I thought the whole point of this forum was to talk with others about bourbon and get their perspective and opinions on it.

If I was wealthy enough that "money is no object", sure, I could buy everything I see, take a sip and throw it away when I don't like it. I can afford to buy higher end stuff from time to time, but when it is something that looks interesting, but that I have never had nor is readily available in bars to try ( and at the moment, going out to bars to try is not an option ), I like to hear the opinions of people who have tried it.  I get that just because others like it doesn't mean I will, but if they tell me how it tastes to them, whiskeys that are similar, etc. it is better than having no information at all.  

Nobody wants to waste money. I’ve had plenty of “high end” bottles that I hated. I haven’t tried this particular release so can’t help with opinions on that specifically. I think Lux Row has done a few things relatively well recently and wouldn’t be opposed to trying something like this from them. As always I’d appreciate a little more transparency about it. If I can’t try it before I buy it, it would make it a little easier if I knew where it came from, what the mashbill was, the age, etc. Also specific to my initial reaction to this release, I’m not specifically a huge Armagnac fan, so I’m not necessarily specifically out there looking for an Armagnac finished whiskey.

 

For what it’s worth, you could look into what other members here are in your area, or outside of this site for other enthusiasts, and see if you could swap samples, etc. I know some other people around me, even one right in my neighborhood who I met on this site ( @Bbstout what’s up? FYI I might be moving closer to you soon) that I trade samples with, point each other to a good bottle once in a while, etc. Sometimes when I’m considering a couple bottles I’ll check with those guys and say “I’ll buy this and you buy that one and we’ll get together and crack both” sort of thing. 
 

Anyway, don’t get discouraged if you don’t find everything you hoped for related to every release. Welcome to the site and I hope you find some good info here and there.

 

cheers!

[smokinjoe]

On 10/15/2020 at 10:13 PM, SteveoT said:

Care to explain?

 

39 minutes ago, BottledInBond said:

I think there are quite a few people that are generally biased against Michter’s around here. Some people might just think $150 is too much to pay for the quality of what goes in your glass from this release. Others avoid Michter’s based on multiple additional factors, as some people consider them to be bullies, shady, non-transparent, and just out for cash grabs in general. Whether or not all of that is fair, is up to each of us to have our own opinions. To me much of those are valid issues. I’ve thought the quality of some of their releases were very good, largely 2014 and earlier. Even though that whiskey was delicious, I still didn’t like their business tactics. 
 

If I was going to buy anything they put out today it would probably be their barrel strength rye. I think that is still sourced juice, believed in general to be sourced from Brown Foreman. Only time will tell if their own distillate ever produces any great products, as they haven’t been distilling long enough to have made any of their age stated products yet. 
 

Do some searching for other threads on Michter’s/Chatham around here, they have been discussed many times.

 

cheers!

I really don’t have a problem with Michters’ business practices.  I may not care, nor purchase unnamed sourced whiskey at exorbitant prices, but I am realistic enough to know that’s how it is in many places.  Otherwise, I’m fine with a company that prices their product at what the market will bear for a nonessential luxury product and protects their brand as fervently as possible, even if a nice old man was boxed out.  Business is Business.  

[StarSurfer55]

20 hours ago, flahute said:

Absolute swill.

Glad that someone else is of the same opinion. 

Edited October 17, 2020 by StarSurfer55
Typos

[BottledInBond]

1 hour ago, smokinjoe said:

 

I really don’t have a problem with Michters’ business practices.  I may not care, nor purchase unnamed sourced whiskey at exorbitant prices, but I am realistic enough to know that’s how it is in many places.  Otherwise, I’m fine with a company that prices their product at what the market will bear for a nonessential luxury product and protects their brand as fervently as possible, even if a nice old man was boxed out.  Business is Business.  

There is more to my total opinion of them than just NDP at high prices and the Bombergers lawsuit. They have sued other businesses as well, for some things that I considered to be frivolous. As an example, they sued Whistle Pig over the use of the word “crop” on a label. Not that I love WP either but sometimes it’s just stupid. Amongst my other issues with them, I also hate the fact that Michter’s puts 1753 all over every item they ever produce. It is bull$hit and deceptive, trying to trick consumers into thinking their products have anything to do with any business that started in 1753. They are shady in general based on what I’ve observed,  and I just try not to spend my $ with them these days. Others might not care as much about these issues and I totally respect that. Everyone decides how they want to spend their own $. 

[smokinjoe]

22 minutes ago, BottledInBond said:

There is more to my total opinion of them than just NDP at high prices and the Bombergers lawsuit. They have sued other businesses as well, for some things that I considered to be frivolous. As an example, they sued Whistle Pig over the use of the word “crop” on a label. Not that I love WP either but sometimes it’s just stupid. Amongst my other issues with them, I also hate the fact that Michter’s puts 1753 all over every item they ever produce. It is bull$hit and deceptive, trying to trick consumers into thinking their products have anything to do with any business that started in 1753. They are shady in general based on what I’ve observed,  and I just try not to spend my $ with them these days. Others might not care as much about these issues and I totally respect that. Everyone decides how they want to spend their own $. 

The only reason I even made my last post was to offer my own position, since you quoted and responded to a question specifically asked of me.  Just wanted to bring that clarification to these boards.  Otherwise, I would have read your opinions and moved on, while continuing to solve important world problems in front of the fire with my Buffalo Trace and La Aroma de Cuba Mi Amor...

 

 

 

[PhantomLamb]

On 10/17/2020 at 10:02 AM, smokinjoe said:

If the MMCS you’re referring to is the “standard” Maker’s Mark Cask Strength, $62 is way over MSRP.  Pricing for this in most areas is $49.99, and in some (like here in GA) it has dropped to $39.99.  However, as k-train has reported, the price has returned to &49.99 in his NC.  IMO, MMCS is one of the best readily available (in most places it seems) barrel proof bourbons on the shelf.  The increase in proof really takes the standard to a new level.  More depth, flavor, fullness, and particularly extends the profile through the finish with much more gusto.  I was a somewhat regular buyer at $49.99, more as a treat to myself.  At $39.99, and fearing what K-Train  has seen as being a possibility here, I’m bunkering it.  That said, if it was $62 in my area, I’d splurge on it occasionally.  

Thanks guys.  This is, unfortunately, the standard MMCS, should've stated that to begin with.  Hard pass it is then!

[Mano]

So, I enter all the Idaho lotteries, and I just won the opportunity to buy a bottle of Old Fitzgerald 9yr BIB for $90. I actually bought a bottle of this last month when they had it in Utah ( limit was 1 bottle ). I prefer not to open the bottle I have at the moment.  Has anyone tried this yet? It is a 2 1/2 hour drive, and wanted to hear a few reviews before I make the trip.

[Bob_Loblaw]

8 hours ago, Mano said:

 I prefer not to open the bottle I have at the moment. 

I’m confused here. Why wouldn’t you open this and make the decision yourself? Your palate is what matters. If you love it, buying another is a easy choice. If not, you save 2.5 hours and a c-note.

 

 I have not tried the Spring 9 year, but have had several of the releases so far. For me, they have all generally been good, but not elite and I am over chasing every release. Given that I just passed on the new 14yr  I would not be taking the time to pick up that 9yr.