What exactly changed from ECBP 2016 to ECBP 2017 aside from the bottle

[FasterHorses]

My friend swears and apparently its accepted fact that the pre 17 bottlings are

head and shoulders better and very different from the 2017 to present offerings. Did HH change anything or is this just nostalgia.

[Kepler]

I don't have any concrete information about what goes into the product, so take everything I say with a grain of salt. 

 

But nobody I know that really knows bourbon prefers any batch released after 2016's 136.0 proof batch over that one (and my own taste buds also tell me that too).

 

And the 134.2 "batch #1" release is absolutely legendary.

 

I think the recent run of mediocre batches the past couple of years doesn't help the perception either.

 

Unfortunately, nostalgia plays some part because of the bottle design change (large or small factor?  I don't know).  But smart people have self-awareness of this factor and should be able to separate the emotional connection to the old bottle design from the liquid within.  But we are all human, so there will be controversy.

 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2024 by Kepler

[Jazz June]

My guess is that the number of barrels in the batches has risen significantly and that the care put into selecting them (and maybe who is doing it) has changed.

 

When Heaven Hill discontinued the age statement on the 94 proof, some believed that it gave them more and better barrels of 12+ year old liquid to put in the barrel proof. I think this makes some sense, but was probably short-lived, and that now we are seeing the opposite happen. When they dropped the age statement on the 94 proof in 2016, where would 12+ year barrels be diverted to? In to EC BP, EC 18, and EC 23. I guess also Evan Williams 12 and 23 and the occasional HH SS or PHC. But then they re-introduced WHH releases, added HH HC, increased HH SS releases, and it looks like they increased EC 18 and EW 12 production. EW 23 and EC 23 appear to have been discontinued, but those are probably negligible. These other expressions are all significantly more expensive than EC BP, so a clear motivation to shift those 12+ year barrels from the latter to the former. As the number of places the 12+ year barrels can go increased, the age on EC BP had to drop. A HH rep at an EC event told us how many barrels go into current EC BP batches and it is quite a lot, so definitely putting real pressure on their stocks of aged bourbon. People obsess over the proof as well, which I think is in part silly and in part an indication that they can't be as picky as they used to be when choosing barrels for this product. The average age on EC BP picks is falling, with mostly or all 8 year barrels rolled for many groups.

 

So basically the product has fallen victim to pressure on stocks from increasing demand and premiumization. I think this same effect is seen in many of BT's mid-level products. Good/great barrels are generally left to age up into really expensive expressions, so the barrels being pulled for those mid-tier products are on average not as good as in the past.

[flahute]

Those early ECBPs in the old bottle had bourbon in them that was older than 12 years. Back then they didn't have has much older stock going into the various brands that they do now. Jazz did a nice job running down all the places it goes now. When the dropped the age statement from regular EC Larry Kass told us that they didn't have enough 12yr barrels that met the standard so sticking to that age statement was getting hard to do at the volume they needed.

As Jazz said above, continuing demand and growth has led to less barrels to choose from than before so it's really hard to match the profiles of those early ones. That said, I still think ECBP is quite good.

[Charlutz]

I’ve got some of the old bottles in the bunker, but I still add new batches when I see them on the shelves. Picked up A124 last night from TW. Even if it isn’t as good as the old ones, it’s still the best version of ECBP I can get right now. 

[meadeweber]

On 2/20/2024 at 4:53 PM, Charlutz said:

I’ve got some of the old bottles in the bunker, but I still add new batches when I see them on the shelves. Picked up A124 last night from TW. Even if it isn’t as good as the old ones, it’s still the best version of ECBP I can get right now. 

Well said Charlie.  I'm exactly the same.

[Jazz June]

This seems relevant to this thread: last night I did a blind tasting of B517, B518, B519, and a 10 year old private pick with two friends. There was agreement that the B517 and B518 were noticeably better than the B519 and the pick. The proofs were 124.2, 133.4, 122.2, and 113.1. Within the pairs, the B518 beat out the B517 two votes to one and the pick beat the B519 two votes to one.

[fosmith]

B517 won Whiskey Advocate's whiskey of the year but I thought C917 was much better and, to this day, it remains one of my favorite batches.  Glad I have a few bottles left.  I have almost no experience with the pirate bottles having only had the 136 proof from 2016.  My impression of that one was that it drank pretty hot.

[Kepler]

I usually pass on the new batches.  I bought a C922, the last one I've purchased. I looked for the C923 but to no avail.  Just last week I passed on A124 a couple of times.  I have enough good ECBP that I paid $45 for that I don't really need anymore.  Especially since it's no longer what I'd call a great value with the price increase and quality has been spotty for a few years.  On the other hand I can buy any RRSiB for less money that I know will be excellent.  Nothing on the shelves is as consistently good as is RRSiB, at least for my palate preferences anyway.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 26, 2024 by Kepler