Hancock's President's Reserve deletion in MD?

[angelshare]

I was just in Montgomery County MD and found no Hancock's President's Reserve after visiting four stores. After inquiring, I was told that the brand was being deleted from their stock.

Is this a local phenomenon, or is something up with the Hancock's bottling itself?

[angelshare]

After searching the BT website, I found nothing enlightening either way. I tried to email them, but I'm not sure the contact link was working.

After opening the box for a "bunker" bottle of Hancock's, however, I noticed a change in packaging. Is there any substantive difference between these two? Or is it just new packaging? Could the minor label change be the etiology of the "deletion?"

[angelshare]

The cork is different, too. A view from the back.

[TrueBarrel]

I was just in Montgomery County MD and found no Hancock's President's Reserve after visiting four stores. After inquiring, I was told that the brand was being deleted from their stock.

Is this a local phenomenon, or is something up with the Hancock's bottling itself?

I believe that Schneider's of Capitol Hill (D.C) currently has some of this.

[stoopsie]

I saw a few bottles at Beltway Liquors in Towson, Md yesterday. They had the newer style label and the price was $45.

Howie

[angelshare]

I take it the newer style is the one labelled "Hancock's Single Barrel Reserve," as I had never seen this before. Is this correct? I had only ever seen "President's Reserve."

Any idea on why they changed the name? And the cork?

[clayton]

This is a Buffalo Trace product, isn't it? It must be good if you're looking for it. Can anyone offer tasting notes or a comparison to another product? I know there are a few bottles of this on Seattle shelves.

[Paradox]

Can anyone offer tasting notes

Here’s some tasting notes that apparently did not spark any interest which I still find quite odd.

As for the bottle changes, I know of 3 styles. There are the 2 you posted Dave and then the newest one which I have a pic of in the link provided above. The one that says president's reserve with the metal plaque on front is the 2nd, the one that says single barrel I think to be the first and the one in my pic in my tasting notes is the 3rd. The newer bottlings I have seen no longer come in the round wooden hinged box that my 2nd generation bottle came in. Also, as you can see on the 1st and 2nd 'generation' ones the metal plaque is recessed into the bottle whereas the new bottle has a simple sticker that affixes to the flat front of the bottle, no recesses in the bottle.

Things like this have been done to other BT products and are not uncommon in the industry, and not just bottle changes. Look at this old thread where Rock Hill Farms was once sold in an 80 proof as well when it was still being sold in the old style bottles...

[clayton]

Thanks, Mark! Looks like one worth picking up at some point.

[angelshare]

Thanks for the info, Mark! This is odd, but the most RECENT bottle (within the last 3 months) I bought was the 1st generation one. Clearly, this must have been old stock. I think every bottle of Hancock's I have bought came in the wooden cannister, although I have seen it sitting out without one.

I don't know BT history very well. Hancock's originally came from AA, right? Was the first generation bottled before there was an association with BT and Ancient Age, and hence a different product name?

Hancock's is virtually never on the shelf in VA; it is in the special order catalogue. Unfortunately, the only way to reliably check its availability here is to order it and see if it comes - to the tune of $55/bottle!

By the way, when I was researching this, I came across your tasting notes. Much more eloquent than I could muster with my unsophisticated palate! I think Hancock's is great whiskey but very overpriced in most places for something that is widely available.

[angelshare]

It must be good if you're looking for it. I know there are a few bottles of this on Seattle shelves.

I think it's very good, but I feel my credibility is bolstered re: Hancock's given that Mark seems to agree with me. I would definitely give Mark's whiskey impressions more weight than mine when shopping!

Just out of curiosity, how much does it go for in Seattle?

[clayton]

The WA State Liquor Racket website lists Hancock's as $49.05, inc. all taxes.

[Bob]

Dave,

I've been waiting for the Bourbon Festival to get a bottle of the Hancock's. I enjoyed it a lot when trying it at Mark's, but I've been reluctant to spend the approximately $45 that it sells for up here. I think its about $40 in KY, so if you're in the market it for this, hold off a few days!

Bob

[TNbourbon]

I don't know BT history very well. Hancock's originally came from AA, right? Was the first generation bottled before there was an association with BT and Ancient Age, and hence a different product name?

Buffalo Trace IS Ancient Age Distillery, aka Leestown Distilling. The name changed for marketing purposes in 1999, but remains owned by the Goldring family (Sazerac Co.), which purchased in 1992.

[angelshare]

Thanks, Tim - I poorly worded my question. Nevertheless, I didn't realize that BT/AA facility were truly one in the same. I should have known I could count on the current trivia master to shed light!

I was wondering if the Hancock's Reserve pre-dated the Sazerac buying of AA or if it came after. I'm guessing since it was bought in 1992, probably not. Consequently, all three incarnations of the bottle are BT (Sazerac) creations(?)

So a follow up question, then - when did Hancock's first appear on the market? Was this a BT/Sazerac product bottled to ride the small batch wave evolving in the early 90's? I noticed that the Regans referenced it in their book, but I thought they called it "President's Reserve." (I may be wrong, I don't have access to my book at the moment. The Regan book was printed in 1995 or 96 as I recall.) How old is the "Single Barrel Reserve" (ie, when did the name change to "President's Reserve")?

[angelshare]

Thanks for the info, Bob!

When we travel to KY, though, our purchases are largely restricted to products that are impossible to get in VA.

The main reason that I'm mourning the Montgomery County deletion is that their price was $28. But, available at a higher price in VA is better than not available at all.

[dgonano]

The main reason that I'm mourning the Montgomery County deletion is that their price was $28.

Dave, I have to confess, I picked up the last bottle at the White Oak store in July. It indeed was $28. Sorry.

[angelshare]

Hey, don't apologize for recognizing a good buy! So, sounds like the deletion is definite for Montgomery Co., huh?

I got out my Regan book and found that:

The brand was introduced in 1991 - prior to Sazerac's takeover?

Also, it is called "Hancock's Reserve Single Barrel Bourbon," not President's Reserve as I thought. Still, they describe a "fine cork-finished wooden stopper." This does not sound like the stopper on my "first generation" bottle. Could there be four bottles?

[cowdery]

After the initial success of Blanton's, Age International and their Japanese partners created two more single barrel bourbons, Hancock's Reserve and Rock Hill Farms.

[angelshare]

So Hancock's was an entity before the Sazerac purchase? Is it possible that my bottle on the right is from the pre-Sazerac days? That seems weird, since I found it on the shelf in 2004. Yet even the Regan book (1995) describes a "cork finished wooden stopper" while this one I would describe as just a big cork with the (tax?) stamp over it.

[angelshare]

After the initial success of Blanton's, Age International and their Japanese partners created two more single barrel bourbons, Hancock's Reserve and Rock Hill Farms.

I emailed Kris Comstock at Buffalo Trace regarding my bottle of Hancock's with the cork and tax stamp. Kris forwarded the pictures to Mr. Elmer T. Lee who reported that this bottle is circa 1985. Could this be right? From Chuck's post, I assumed it would have been later. Maybe that assumption was incorrect?

Also, there could be a typo or misquote involved in the relayed message. Mr. Lee did not email me directly. I will try to verify that I understood Kris correctly.

[angelshare]

I verified with Kris Comstock that this bottle is from the eighties and that the whiskey was likely distilled in the 1970's. KC reports that Blanton's was launched in 84 and this would likely have been bottled within a couple of years after. I'm not sure how old Hancock's tends to be (now or then). I assume it varies somewhat?

I wish I had known some more info about this bottle before the festival, as it would have been a reasonable offering for the gazebo. It would have been fun to compare to Dave Gonano's more recent bottle. I'll set it aside for a future gazebo gathering in 05 or 06 if there is interest!

[brendaj]

D & T,

I'll set it aside for a future gazebo gathering in 05 or 06 if there is interest!

Oh, there's an interest! I'll be happy to bring a new bottle of Blanton's to sit right beside it. That's something I really, really enjoy. Tasting an older version of an existing expression.

Marvin did it this year with the Turkey 12, and it was a real high-point during Friday night's tasting frenzy...

Bj

[Ken Weber]

The packaging change was pretty much my fault. Since Hancock's is a small brand, we do not purchase that much glass. As long as the glass is a stock bottle, you have no problems with supply. Alas, we were told that the molds were worn out and that we would have to pay $25,000 for new ones, plus the daily run size exceeded our sales over a three year period. So, we moved to a slightly different bottle (still, it is very similar). While we were at it, I took the opportunity to clean up the label.

I asked Mark Brown (our president) if he selected the bourbon, hence the name. The obvious answer was "NO, are you an idiot or something" or words to that affect. Consequently, we wanted to more accurately reflect its single barrel heritage and so modified the label. The dog gone wooden barrel cost about $4 - $5 each. I eliminated it so that the price would not go up. Plus, you can't see the bottle on the shelf when it is hidden in that darn barrel.

There was a reference to Rockhill Farms bottle changing. The samething happened with it. The glass was discontinued and we moved to a similar looking bottle and cleaned up the logo. The bottle used to have this cheap plastic name plate, which I removed. I have heard both positive and not so positive things from consumers because of this!

Finally, our Elmer T. Lee single barrel bourbon has also had a bottle change. Again the former bottle was discontinued and we found one that looks almost the same. No one has even noticed this change yet.

Ken

[Gillman]

Ken, thanks for your recent posts, most informative.

Can you give any indication of what is in the experimental barrels?

Regards

Gary Gillman, Toronto