Early Times

[mrt]

I believe the minimum 40% ABV requirement only applies to bottles sold in the U.S., it is an American law which therefore only applies in the States

Gary

However, in order to sell in the US or to export, bourbon is produced in the US in either case-this is a legal requirement. A whiskey, to be labeled "bourbon", should be produced in the US. Then, given that export-only bourbons are also produced in the US, aren't they supposed to obey the law in all aspects including abv?

[Gillman]

Well, this is a U.S. legal question that I can't answer. I would have thought that if a product is marketed only outside the U.S., then the information on the label is something to be governed by the law of the place where it will be sold. But this is speculation. The people whose job it is to give legal advice to the bourbon producers will of course know the true position and advise their clients accordingly. It is a question of what the relevant U.S. rules state and how they are to be interpretated in this specific circumstance.

Gary

[cowdery]

However, in order to sell in the US or to export, bourbon is produced in the US in either case-this is a legal requirement. A whiskey, to be labeled "bourbon", should be produced in the US. Then, given that export-only bourbons are also produced in the US, aren't they supposed to obey the law in all aspects including abv?

With major producers, such as Brown-Forman (makers of Early Times and Jack Daniel's) and Jim Beam, how they package and market their products outside the U.S. has a lot to do with their worldwide branding strategy. They don't want the products to be too different from place to place.

However, the U.S. labelling laws apply only to products sold in the U.S. and the major producers sell products--the 70 proof Jack Daniel's is a good example--outside the U.S. that would not be permitted inside the U.S.

Think of the U.S. laws as applying not to what is produced in the U.S. but to what is sold here and it becomes less confusing.

The other aspect about non-U.S. sales, especially where there are no treaties regarding "distinctive products," is with regard to locally-sold brands that are not the worldwide brands such as Jim Beam, Early Times and Jack Daniel's. In these cases, you really have no idea what you are getting. It might be an export-only brand from a major producer, it may be a local brand created by a local producer using imported bulk whiskey, or it may be an entirely local creation of who-knows-what.

This is controlled, or not, by local authorities exclusively.

In some countries where the government is unwilling or unable to enforce international intellectual property laws, you may even encounter counterfeit versions of major international brands. Other than complaining to that country's national government, there is nothing the producers or the U.S. government can do about it except, of course, invade.

(And don't think we won't!)

[mrt]

........

Think of the U.S. laws as applying not to what is produced in the U.S. but to what is sold here and it becomes less confusing.

.........

Thank you, this explains everything. My starting point was not true.

[mrt]

I found the page "http://www.ellenjaye.com/earlytimes.htm", while surfing on the net. As you can guess, it caught my attention

And besides, I found the table below. I just wanted to share.

"Top Ten Brands of Bourbon & Straight American Whiskey

Brand Supplier Market Share

1. Jim Beam Jim Beam Brands 25.8%

2. Jack Danielís Black Brown-Forman Beverages 24.1%

3. Early Times Brown-Forman Beverages 7.4%

4. Evan Williams Heaven Hill Distilleries 7.0%

5. Ancient Age Sazerac 4.6%

6. Ten High Barton Brands 4.3%

7. Old Crow Jim Beam Brands 4.1%

8. Wild Turkey IDV North America 3.6%

9. Heaven Hill Bourbon Heaven Hill Distilleries 2.4%

10. Makerís Mark Hiram Walker 1.8%

Cumulative Share of Top 10 Brands 85.1%

Source: Adams Liquor Handbook 1998"

Any up to date information about the market shares above?

Regards...

[MGades]

The Thread originally asked for tasting notes, and I didn't see much on that despite 55 posts so I'll take a crack at it.

Mine is a new bottle and the label says Kentucky Whisky aged at least 36 months in reused cooperage.

I've seen it for as low as $13 for a 1.75 ltr., but I don't recommend anybody buy that much of it.

First, there is virtually no nose other than alcohol, and the color is pretty pale. Second I get some hot burn that reminds me of cheap spirits. Third, there is no body to speak of and I get a musty, old-barrel flavor. I don't notice rye or anything interesting, it seems mostly a bland corn alcohol underneath. Definitely not for drinking neat.

When mixed (with 7up or Coke or as a sour), the mustiness remains and there is little bourbon flavor to shine through.

Definitely my least favorite of the 20 American Whisky/Bourbon/Ryes I've tried.

It is extremely bland except for some hot rubbing alcohol burn and a bad musty flavor.

If someone is interested in low-priced bourbon, then check out the "Blue Collar whiskey" thread.

From what I've tried, I'd go for EW Black Label or Ezra Brooks if I want the lowest-priced decent bourbon, or even JB White if that's your style. I haven't tried AA, but that seems a good candidate as well.

[jburlowski]

Source: Adams Liquor Handbook 1998"

Any up to date information about the market shares above?

FWIW, you can buy the current Adams Liquor Handbook on-line for $775.00.....

[mrt]

.....

Mine is a new bottle and the label says Kentucky Whisky aged at least 36 months in reused cooperage.

...

First, there is virtually no nose other than alcohol, and the color is pretty pale. Second I get some hot burn that reminds me of cheap spirits. Third, there is no body to speak of and I get a musty, old-barrel flavor. I don't notice rye or anything interesting, it seems mostly a bland corn alcohol underneath. Definitely not for drinking neat.

When mixed (with 7up or Coke or as a sour), the mustiness remains and there is little bourbon flavor to shine through.

.....

That's weird...I know that I do not have a developed palate and I do not have much experience either, but I definitely get a clear vanilla aroma and a sweet taste whenever I sip Early Times. Besides, my friends to whom I served ET also share my views. Though ET here is a bourbon unlike the one in the US, I still doubt how can this make that much difference. BTW, if the label on your bottle says "aged in reused cooperage", this information is also contradictory with what I know, that's %20 of ET is aged in used cooperage. I know ET is not a brand of much importance there, but being one of my few alternatives, comments about ET attracts my attention.

[mrt]

I encountered a few ET reviews on the net (bourbonenthusiast.com), purely by chance. I wasn't even aware of that site before, nor am I subscribed to there. But, I want to share these reviews with you:

1. From a member whose username is "gillmang":

"Small deli/liquor store in San Francisco

Purchased for: 18.00

Info on this bottle: Red tax stamp, quart, 70's vintage

Proof Of this Bottle: 80

Nose: Quite light, like Mike states below for his

Taste: Very soft in the palate, pillowy and clean with good corn flavours and a scattering of teaberry smoke/char decay at the end. Very drinkable neat, like a VSOP cognac but in bourbon. Lovely drink. No fruitiness.

Finish: Echos of the taste, pleasant, no tannic edge, justa light barrel effect remaining

Overall: Very high rating. Mike's review of the current export sounds similar but I think mine is better because it is fairly complex while still being subtle and mild. You can see the connection to WR and Forester of today but the Early Times is less aggressive"

2. 1. From a member whose username is "bourbonv":

"Purchased at: Gift from Lincoln Henderson

Info on this bottle: Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whisky bottled for the Japanese market

Proof Of this Bottle: 80

Nose: Corn silk and light oak tones. This product has a light nose, very simple and clean.

Taste: Corn with wonderful caramel and a hint of coconut. Very smooth with no alcohol burn. Everytime I drink this I wish they would offer it in the U.S.A.

Finish: Clean and sweet. A little caramel ank oak that is nice, but short.

Overall: This is a good bourbon to drink when you want something light and easy. It is a pleasant drink that would lend itself well to a bourbon and coke while watching a ballgame or straight up as a palate cleanser after a spicy meal."

This second one is a review for the export ET which is a bourbon, just the same as what I have here, as you notice. There are also words about the "vanilla" in some other reviews, but I guess that would be boring for the readers to include all of them here.

BTW, is there any problem for referring to posts on another site? I hope not, since I give the exact references...

[OscarV]

BTW, is there any problem for referring to posts on another site? I hope not, since I give the exact references...

No problem as far as I am concerned. I like to read the news and the reviews on BourbonEnthusiast.com.

That one review by bourbonv is by Mike Veech, he is a noted historian and was recently inducted to the Bourbon Historical Mueseum in Bardstown, KY.

mrt, I have to ask you, do you ever try to buy different kinds of bourbon via mail order?

Is there a problem with out of country shipments to private individuals in Turkey?

If not, try binnys.com or samswine.com and then there ofcourse is eBay.

[mrt]

Actually, I'm not sure about whether I can get my order from abroad. There isn't any problem with book, music, etc. orders from sites like amazon com, but I don't exactly know the case for alcoholic beverages. Prices of alcoholic beverages include a great tax burden here, so this may lead to a problem. (For example, the USD equivalent of what I pay for JBW 75cl. here is 45 USD.)However, I'll try one day, putting an acceptable (little) amount of money at risk, and I'll place an order for a bottle of bourbon. If it arrives here safely, then I'll be ready for online purchase of upper shelf bourbons. In fact, I'm rather impatient to try different bourbons which gets good reviews on SB-like Woodford Reserve, Van Winkles, and others.

[CrispyCritter]

Prices of alcoholic beverages include a great tax burden here, so this may lead to a problem. (For example, the USD equivalent of what I pay for JBW 75cl. here is 45 USD.)

There's a possibility that the bottle might be delivered to you, but with duty payment due on receiving it. That happened to my sister when she was spending time in England and received more than the duty-free allowance of cigarettes from home.