BOTM, 7/05: Old Forester

[jeff]

Bourbon of the Month, July 2005:

Old Forester

Specifically the 100 proof, although discussion of the 86 proof is acceptable. Birthday Bourbon expressions can be mentioned for comparative analysis with either of the traditional Old Forester bottlings.

Sound off!

[Edward_call_me_Ed]

I'll go get mine tomorrow.

Ed

[Chaz7]

Well, I went out to buy a bottle; when I saw it was $12.00 for the 100 proof, I thought it can't be that good. I usually pay $20-40, and I haven't been disappointed yet. I don't mean to sound like a bourbon snob; I just didn't have the highest expectations going in. My first two finger pour? Well, I was less than thrilled. All I got was a smokey taste.I really did not enjoy it at all. But, I did not stop there. Over the next couple of nights, I tried several more pours. I am slowly growing fond of it. It doesn't, to me anyway, have the complexity of Elmer T. Lee, EWSB 95, or any of the Pappys. But, it's not half bad. Far better than it's modest price suggests. Over the course of this month, I will work on what flavours I do get from it. It is though a bourbon that after the first glass, I have no problem tasting anything else in my rather limited bunker. Does this suggest it's a little thin? I don't know. Again, time will tell.

[BrbnBorderline]

WA State doesn't carry the 100 Proof, so I bought the 86 proof version to try it. I'll chime in later with my thoughts.

[TNbourbon]

In the 'by-the-way' department, I looked at an old tax-stamped Old Forester BIB 1.75L in a store today for $35 after tax (he had several other smaller sizes, too, including some dimple-sided 86 proofs), but wound up instead buying a sealed/boxed 1975 Benchmark 57th American Legion commemorative bottle for $46. I'll go back for the other(s).

I already had, however, an OF 100 proof, which states 4 years old on the rear label:

The color is new-copper-plating orangish, as on a current-year penny. The nose has hints of lemon/citrus, with underlying brown sugar/maple, and holds suggestion of a light-bodied pour. On the palate, the weight is indeed light, and the flavors complement the nose about as well as any bourbon I've ever tasted -- the citrus is prominent, with almost no 'dark' flavors (tobacco, leather, acidic oak). There is a medium finish with mild heat, leaving a remarkably fresh aftertaste.

Not a lot of complexity here, but no real unpleasantness either. This is a fresh, enjoyable drink, seemingly tuned to summertime sipping.

Afternote: I often marinade beef steaks in OF 86 to good result; I think I'll try this one with pork and/or fish.

[BrbnBorderline]

Well, I've sipped my first finger's worth. Here are my first impressions:

Given that I'm not an expert taster, I'd say this would be a good Scotch drinker's bourbon. Lot's of barrel and smoke. Very little of the vanilla/caramel/maple flavors I enjoy in a bourbon. I'd like to try the 100 proof bottling. The 86 proof version seems a wee bit thin. I'm following it up with some Weller Antique.

YMMV

[camduncan]

Some interesting tasting notes. It's not a bottle that's available 'Downunder' so I'm following the tread with interest

[RedVette]

As I taste this, I am drawn to what it is not. It is not intense like a Bookers or GTS. It is not heavy or complex like a Pappy 15. It is not weird like an Ezra 101 or Corner Creek. It is not hot like a WT101. It is just a simple little Bourbon, that is almost entirely pleasant. Every third or forth sip gives a faint blast of Doctors office alcohol, and that is the only negative I could come up with.

[Joe_Blowe]

I don't have my BOTM yet, but I'm reading the thread with much interest. Specifically, I'm looking for comparisons between Old Forester BIB and Woodford Reserve -- how close of a substitute is it, prices btwn the two in your area, etc...

---

Edited to add that I did buy a bottle of O.F. 86 proof a few days ago. I was impressed for what it offered at its price point, but I've got my favorites covered in that price point already. The 86 would likely not be an addition to my cabinet.

[OFC]

Old Forrester 86 is my every day first pour for some time now. I always sample a differrent bourbon going from light to heavier body and if your a rye flavored bourbon fan Old Forrester 86 or 100 is tops for the the first sip of the day in my book. The mash bill has 18% rye, more than many. OF 100 proof has been difficult to find in NYC and the likely sources would probably want list price. OF 86 liter lists for $19. but can be had for $13, discounted. The prices some of you are posting quote has me jealous !!! So I mostly drink the 86 now. Forget what the OF 100 says about its age on the label.

Most knowledgable people report it is actually 8 years old, the 86 proof 5 1/2 years average. For the story on this, see the posting of 10/02/02 on the is site---about page 85 on the index for the whole scoop on how old is Old Forrester. OF is a very distinctive drink with sharp nutty/ toffee tones and dry finish and holds up nicely to ice on a warm day if your are so inclined. I am often.

[Chaz7]

Every third or forth sip gives a faint blast of Doctors office alcohol,

I got that as well. Last night, we pulled some mint from the back yard. It's OK for a julep.

[chasking]

I went to two different Binny's stores over the past week looking for OF 100. In the past they always used to have it, but now it seems that they have made a chain-wide decision to only carry the 100 proof in 1.75 liter bottles. I'm not quite willing to buy that much of it. Hopefully they have it in 750ml bottles at Sam's. In recent years Binny's has absorbed most of the other major liquor stores in Chicago, so if Binny's as a chain decides to quit carrying something, it can be pretty tough to find. Ironically, I would say that in general the Binny's whiskey aisle has gotten better in the last year or so. But, apparently that improvement came at the expense of shelf space for OF 100 proof.

[dgonano]

Old Forester 100 is indeed a fine pour for the price( about

$14 in Maryland). The caramel and vanilla flavors are

prominent. To my recollection this bourbon is 6 to 8 yrs

old. The 86 proof is a few yrs younger. The labels state

4 yrs on both bottlings.

I always pick up a few bottles of the 100 as it is not

always in stock.

[gr8erdane]

Lukas Liquor Superstores is where I got my bottle of OF 100. They have it in their online store for $13.99. I don't see a listing of where all they are located but I have been to them here and in KC and the site mentions Kansas and Colorado as possible sites. If you look at the online store though don't stop at the bourbon listing which is pretty bare, they threw about everything into the blended whiskey link for some odd reason. That's www.lukasliquor.com I believe.

[Edward_call_me_Ed]

I paid about US$27 for my 750 ml bottle of the OF 100. So far my impression of it is not very good. I haven't made up my mind yet as I have only had a couple of pours from it. But it burned my throat and seemed bland at the same time. That might have been me more that the whiskey as I had eaten spicy food earlier one day and had quite a bit to drink the night before the other day I poured my self some OF 100. I will be giving it another try later this week.

Some, not all, rye bourbons burn my throat. WT 101 8 year old burns a bit, but not enough to bother me. The Old Grand Dad 114 burns, even with a splash of water. I like the taste of the OGD 114 fine, but don't often drink it because or the burn. I haven't had many straight ryes, but the Jim Beam Rye and the Old Overholt don't burn at all. They are both lower proof, of course, both 80 proof. WT Rye 101 does burn. Tastes great though!

The 86 proof OF didn't burn my throat, in fact, at first, I thought it was a wheatie as it seemed soft and a bit bland. Later, I liked it better, tasting more rye spice than I had upon first opening it.

Well, if I don't fall in love with it (OF 100) before I finish the bottle I won't be buying it again. Here in Japan it isn't priced in the low teens. There are plenty of bourbons that cost less here that I like better. Time and a few more pours will tell.

Ed

[Chaz7]

My first impression was the same as yours. Although I still think its thin, It does get better the second or third time around. It will probably be retired after this bottle. But I am willing to try the Birthday.

[TNbourbon]

I'm enjoying a pour of the 2004 Old Forester Birthday Bourbon tonight -- although I was as disappointed as many when Brown-Forman pulled back on its age last fall, I'm nonetheless enjoying this bottle very much.

It's much more assertive than the OF 100. The aroma full of maple and vanilla just about jumps down your nose. But, as with the OF 100, you get on the palate exactly what you get on the nose. And, while much richer, it's still not terribly complex. Tasty, though.

[BrbnBorderline]

As I drink more of this bourbon, I am finally getting past the initial smoke/wood/char flavors, and into a more bourbonesque drink. I am now tasting vanilla and candied fruit, and even a hint of bananas on the spicy rye finish, reminiscent of JD Single Barrel. By the time I finish this bottle[i want to finish it this month], it may work it's way onto the "have on hand" list. For a young 86 proof bourbon, it is quite pleasant. It is somewhat thin, it lacks the viscous feel of a 100+ proof bourbon, and it is not overly complex, but enjoyable none the less.

[Black85L98]

Ok, not an expert but here goes.

Nose: A bit hot fresh out of the bottle. Lot’s of medicine, little else.

After a moment to air out. Oak, lots of oak. Slight fruit.

Mouth: Warm and smooth, does not have the feel of 100 proof. Picking up the oak in taste and not too sweet.

Finish: Again warm and not at all harsh.

Final thoughts: OF 100 and 86 should have a place in your bunker. When you are in the mood for a nice comfortable bourbon this is a good bet. It will not overpower you with flavor. Just plain old good whiskey. Every man has a good pair of everyday shoes. Not out to impress anyone just feel good on your feet. The fact that you know just what you are getting when you put them on keeps them in your closet and away from Goodwill.

OF 100 is just that for me. I can count on it not offending me when I want something light. As many of you know my tastes run to more nose, more flavor, and more finish. For the price it will not replace EC or Weller’s 107 as my favorite mid shelf pour. That said there will just about always be part of a bottle in the cabinet.

[mike1]

Old Forester could be called 'Old Reliable'. No off tastes, a good balance of vanilla and char and a little heat to boot, and the price is always very good. It beats most other 4 year olds hands down. The only thing missing is a cork.

[bluesbassdad]

Because of the BOTM declaration I finally opened a 1.75 L. bottle of Old Forester that I bought last September at Spec's in Houston. (That was when I drove there to adopt Seth, now "Brewski", from the shelter where I'd left him four months and a change of residence earlier. Brew looks like one of those awful pit bulls you hear so much about. In reality he likes both people and other dogs -- see attached. Besides his other fine qualities, I wouldn't have this bottle of OF 100 if not for him. But I digress.)

When I opened the new bottle of OF 100, I couldn't believe my nose. It smelled nothing like what I remembered. My smeller worked better back when I was breathing rich, high-humidity, Long Beach air, but that could hardly account for the discrepancy.

Just to try to recover my old memories of OF 100 I did a search on ' +"old forester" +morefield '. That produced an astonishing 40+ posts in which I had at least mentioned Old Forester in some form. Note to Joe_Blowe: Some of those posts address the comparison to Woodford Reserve, as do other posts in the parent threads. The variety of often contradictory statements I have made about this bourbon give me pause in regard to further documenting my confusion. However, some common themes emerge.

Someone mentioned hospital alcohol. That's pretty close to my earlier reference to Mr. Clean, which in turn was a response to someone who likened the aroma to drain cleaner. However, just as some cleaning products contain cover-up fragrances or citrus oil, OF 100 gives me a combination of sweet and sour, sufficiently balanced to be pleasant. Today I liken the nose to the smell of cinnamon rolls with lots of cinnamon and gooey, white, vanilla icing.

Earlier Chuck mentioned a sooty element in the finish, which I did not get. Now I do.

While drinking (and trying to parse flavor elements) OF 100 several times over the past two weeks, I've found that it has grown on me. At first I found it slightly harsh and not very appealing. I found myself regretting that I'd bought the big bottle and wondering whether I would ever drink it all. That initial impression has gradually changed.

Last night I did an A-B tasting with WT 101. To my surprise the WT seemed lacking in nose and flavor. Have I deadened my taster by repeatedly flooding it with OF100? I think I'll set it aside for now and revisit it later in the month.

Yours truly,

Dave Morefield

[jeff]

Sampling a bit of this tonight. Black Diamond label to be exact. On the nose I get lots of caramel and vanilla, and maybe just a hint of chocolate-covered cherry. The first sip in somewhat hot with lots of wood and spice. The caramel carries over nicely to the palate with a bit of nutmeg and clove. The finish is medium in length with cinnamon and pepper notes lingering.

This is a bourbon I once proclaimed as my absolute favorite. While I still find it enjoyable, I can't help but think it has suffered somewhat at the hands of the Birthday Bourbons and Woodford Reserve. Maybe there is hope on the horizon, as WR continues to utilize more and more pot-stilled whiskey. But, no matter how you slice it, Old Forester is a solid bourbon at a great price!

[Chaz7]

Last night I had a two finger pour. I still can't get into the OF 100. I realize that under $15 a bottle it's a good value, I just can't wrap my taste buds around it. Too much achohol, (don't get me wrong, I like Old Grand Dad 114, and Pappy Van Winkle 15yr is outstanding). And as far as smokey and medicinal, I enjoy Single Malts from Islay. But it (OF 100) doesn't do it for me.Chaz

[Rughi]

Those who have been reading posts by some of your Bay Area correspondents have no doubt noticed the degree to which we have been disappointed with the current releases of Old Forester.

In perspective, I would say that we are talking about a bourbon that has a canonical place in whisk(e)y and would urge enthusiasts to take a long term view.

Old Forester had an exellent reputation from the 1870s. I have samples ranging from the early '70s (1970s, that is) till the current day, and find that it was sometime after the 1995 bottling (about the time when all the questions about the effects of Woodford on the quality of Old Forester would start) that things haven't been up to historic standards. There is hope, though, as in contrast to the excellent ND products which are gone forever as far as we can tell, BF still has the leadership and level of expertise that made the fine bourbon of a short ten to twenty years ago to bring their product back. I am faithfully thinking of this as a troubled period from which Old Forester will reemerge in time.

I have bunkered a good supply to allow it to remain, as always, "America's Guest Whisky" in my home and will gladly welcome new bottles into the flock as they return to form - may that time be soon.

-Roger

PS - Only one bad bottle in the photo below

[bluesbassdad]

While drinking (and trying to parse flavor elements) OF 100 several times over the past two weeks, I've found that it has grown on me. At first I found it slightly harsh and not very appealing. I found myself regretting that I'd bought the big bottle and wondering whether I would ever drink it all. That initial impression has gradually changed.

Last night I did an A-B tasting with WT 101. To my surprise the WT seemed lacking in nose and flavor. Have I deadened my taster by repeatedly flooding it with OF100? I think I'll set it aside for now and revisit it later in the month.

Lacking the requisite Old Fitz BIB to join in the August BOTM conversation, last night I revisited the Old Forester 100 proof. Whatever process I went through before, whether deadening or merely temporary desensitization, its effect has now disappeared. Other than a few appealing elements in the nose, I found nothing to enjoy. Perhaps if I were to force myself to drink it exclusively for a few nights, I would once again reach a point where I would pronounce it acceptable. Absent the motivation of the BOTM experience, I will pass.

After I dumped all but a few sips from the one glass, I rinsed the glass thoroughly and once again tried WT101. As before, its flavor seemed more subdued than usual, but the effect was less pronounced than before, no doubt because I'd subjected my sensory apparatus to only a few sips of OF 100.

I now have over 1.5 liters of bourbon that is destined to become an ingredient, not a solo course.

Yours truly,

Dave Morefield