Dougdogs' Whiskey Rebarreling...

[Rughi]

Doug,

Yayyy!

Did the color change noticeably? If, for instance, you were going from white dog then the color might change dramatically in just a few days, but starting from red liquor as you are my guess would be that the aroma, mouthfeel, and flavor will change much more than the color.

I'd sample often, for fun and science. There's no downside in tasting. Keep us posted. I believe weekly updates are in order for about the first 3 weeks. Let me know if there's any way that I can help in your documentation of this experiment

Roger

PS I admit that I forgot all about the Pritchard's at Jim's until Rob reminded us. I think your CRS might be contagious. Could it be caused by Scotch? It can't be Bourbon, because Bourbon has all natural ingredients...

[robbyvirus]

Robby, that would be a good bottle to bring over to study group some time to re-investigate and become familiar with again...certainly, the "double barrel" aspect would be interesting for comparative purposes with my re-barrel project.

Unfortunately my bottle of Pritchard's was recently "studied" to completion. Hopefully I'll run across another bottle somewhere, sometime, but given the fact that I've only seen it once, I'm not counting on it.

[kbuzbee]

Jeff, most of the refractometers I'm finding are either 0-25% or 0-40%. Do you have a specific recommendation for one we could use to track a barrel that may wind up 60% or 70%??

Ken

[dougdog]

The previous owner of this home installed a pull down ladder to the attic in the hallway...

[dougdog]

Looking up into the attic from the floor below...you can get a glimpse of the little barrel...

[dougdog]

In its new home you can see the tel-tale thermometer leaning against the littel barrel, I can take the temperature readings easily... sorry,the flash washed it out a bit.

[RedVette]

Are you going to put the Chiropractors bill in the total expense column when figuring out your cost per liter?

[dougdog]

I'm late at getting into the little barrel for this weeks sample taste and archive bottle.

I have noted a larger temperature swing of 45 degrees in the attic this week. (Last week was a 33 degree swing while the barrel was in the studio) The weather this week was generally cooler than last week...so the attic seems to be the best place for wider temperature swings.

It is too early to in the day to start tasting but I'll try to have completed noted posted by the time we chat this evening.

One notable...There seems to be some wetness around the bung at the warmer times of the day. (The fill level is no longer right at the top) Even when I checked this week, the liquid level at the warmest time of the day is still 1/2 inch down from the bung being in direct contact with the whiskey. I believe that there is some capillary action going on here. (The first week I put in a piece of plastic between the bung and the barrel to stop the wetness and noted that didn't work. I chalked that up to the barrel being too full, maybe some internal pressure from expansion of contents and stave swelling.)

Is this something that could/should be corrected, or should it be left alone?

If it should be corrected, what would be your suggestions?

(Sure makes the attic smell good!)

At this point in time I do not intend to top off the barrel after today's samples are removed. (This may or may not help the wetness problem)

Your thoughts please...

Best regards, dougdog

[BSS]

I thought barrels and the liquid inside of them needed extended periods of cold and hot to really "age". As in the seasons, in Kentucky you have 4 or 5 months of cold, then 5 or 6 months of warm. I don't think the bourbon has time to soak into and out of the wood in short periods of temp changes. To me, any change in taste is simply the result of the bourbon coming into contact with the inside surface of the barrel, and does not really have anything to do with the temperature changes.

Am I correct on that, anyone?

[barturtle]

Hmm, kinda does sound like a pressure/capillary action thing. I'm guessing that the pressure increase is forcing the capillary action through the weakest point(ie. the hole cut through the grain of the wood). Seems to me that as the level is lowered in the barrel the pressure increase will be less due to the increased airspace in the barrel and the leaking would be less. I know some homebrewers who didn't leave enough airspace in their bottles with explosive results.

[Gillman]

Doug, I believe stopping the topping up may help. If that doesn't work, if there is any way to reduce the temperature swings, that will do it. By not topping up, I believe too you will approximate more closely to commercial warehouse storage and results.

Gary

[dougdog]

Thanks Gary,

I'll going to go with not filing it back up as the current option.

The temperature swings are what I am seeking, I believe that they contribute to working the whiskey in and out of the wood during the expansion and contraction cycles.

[gr8erdane]

I'm wondering if the rapid swings in such short time periods are actually allowing the effects you are looking for. It seems to me that penetration of the carmelized layers under the char would require a constancy of high temperatures over a period of time to maximize the depth of penetration. By going up and down so frequently, it might just be entering the char and then drawing back out before it gets the full benefit of the inner layers. You might just be penetrating into the char alone and end up with char flavored AA. Of course this is just a thought.

I'm also of a mind that with frequent openings and closings, you're not allowing the bung to seal properly which would allow any lower air pressure changes outside to draw the higher air pressure inside to push some of the vapor out through the bung in an effort to equalize. Again, just a random thought through my warped little noggin.

[barturtle]

I'm thinking that even the large commercial barrels undergo daily swings, though they are probably smaller due to the larger volume of the barrels and the fact that there are many of them all acting to some extent as one large thermal mass. However the barrels near windows, along walls, and close to the roof should still have a higher daily temperature swing. And of course these temperature swings will be at higher average temps in the summer and lower average temps in the winter(assuming Dougdogs attic is insulated from the rest of the house and not from the outside-which it seems to be based on the temp swing he's getting)

[kbuzbee]

Dane and BSS, this is one of the great unknowns (at least for me ). Whether short term or long term or both are required. I'd expect both but I would think the red zone could be reached even during a single days swing.

Hopefully the various projects being undertaken will help us understand this better.

Ken

[dougdog]

Well, I'm a bit late in getting this information posted. I took the usual 50ml sample last Sunday afternoon, Dec 11th, (a day late) and temperature readings for the week. High was 78, low was 30, making it a 48 degree swing. This week the temps were similar, 76 for the highest and 30 for the lowest, the swing being 46 degrees.

I sampled the contents as well and I am glad to report that it seems to be getting smoother and sweeter and richer each week.

The color continues to get darker but the color changes are very slight, so not a lot happening there. The change in taste is probably the most notable difference.

I'll be getting the barrel down from the attic for the study group tomorrow.

One note: last week when I went to remove the bung, there was pressure escaping from the top of the barrel. There was still a slight wetness around the bung, enough to see some tiny bubbles that indicated there was pressure being released from within. Maybe the bung was not pounded in tightly enough, but I've been removing it weekly and do not want to pound it in so tightly that I might break it from removing it so frequently.

[JeffRenner]

Maybe the bung was not pounded in tightly enough, but I've been removing it weekly and do not want to pound it in so tightly that I might break it from removing it so frequently.

Have you considered a white rubber stopper? You can get these in a variety of diameters from homebrew shops.

Jeff

[kbuzbee]

Sounds like you are right on schedule. Nice going!!! Keep us posted.

Ken

[Ken Weber]

Doug,

Ambient air temperature is important as it often indicates air pressure changes. I am in the camp that that as air pressure increases (because of the temperature increase within a closed barrel) the liquid is forced into the wood. Conversely, as the temperature drops, so does the pressure and the liquid is then drawn from the wood. Still, I believe the temperature of the liquid is quite important. Since the liquid temperature will lag the ambient temperature, daily changes are usually undectable in the liquid over a short period of time (a couple of days). Aside from not wanting the liquid to overheat (whatever that may mean), you just don't want it to drop below 44 degress F. Of course, the folks at HH have several unheated warehouses. Obviously they have different opinions than me. It is hard to argue with them given the taste of many of their fine whiskies!

Ken

[dougdog]

Ken,

I think with the bung not being as tight as possible the whiskey has not had the "force" to be pushed in and pulled out of the wood...the color of the samples has not changed as much as expected...and this may be why...

Ken, also...Why is 44 degrees the temperature chosen for: "not to drop below" ?

I took the 4th barrel sample out last Sunday evening and swatted the bung with a hammer to drive it in firmly. I intend to take monthly draws at this point in time...weekly seems to be too frequent. I'm going to ask the store owner where the barrels were purchased about new wooden bungs for spares (should the existing one break).

The taste of the whiskey keeps improving...woodiness does not seem to be increasing at all... the sensation of smoothness and richness does! I'm fairly comfortable that one month, unattended, will not be too long between checks.

I might have been reading the tell-tales on my new thermometer incorrectly... I believe that I am going to have to adjust the past temperature notes accordingly. I need to buy another thermometer to check my suspicion, I'll keep you posted.

Dougdog

[brian12069]

Doug,

I'm with you on this one! My wonderful wife bought me a 3 gallon barrel for Christmas. I have not decided what I am going to fill it with yet. She also got me a spigot and I am going to put this little beauty on the end of my bar in my basement. My question is...how do I filter the spigot JUST IN CASE something in the barrel gets in it? You see...in my case the spigot has to be filtered inside the barrel...thanks for any advice.

[gr8erdane]

You might try taking the spigot to a hardware store that has stainless screen filters for faucets. If lucky you might find one that will screw right onto the inside of the spigot. Plastic might work but that depends on the plastic used. I would go stainless steel. Another thought would be to fashion a cone out of stainless mesh that the open end will just fit into the inside end of the spigot with some pressure. By extending out into the barrel it would be less likely to become totally plugged by small bits of char. Just an idea from someone who used to have to deal with diesel fuel tanks full of sediment.

[kbuzbee]

Aren't wives GREAT?? Mine also decided I should have a 10 litre barrel. I think WT101 will grace it. Right now it's curing with water per the directions. Wed/Thursday will be "the filling"

[brian12069]

Water???...is it charred?

[gr8erdane]

Brian, they have to be soaked to make the staves swell together for a tight seal. The whiskey inside will keep the staves wet after it's filled. No telling how long that barrel has set on a shelf drying out waiting to be sold.