The old TW Samuels Site

[bobbyc]

As WKU88 has said his uncle owns the old distillery site in Deatsville.

My uncle owns an old distillery that is not currently producing, but it is close to the Beam and Heaven Hill stills. Possibly, my uncle could be convinced in showing you the grounds, and a short narrative of the place.

Heaven Hill has most of the warehouses and Makers has 2 or 3 of them. My brother tells me there will be houses built in the field near this, soon. So imagine my dismay today when riding by that the smokestack at TWs is being wrecked. I believe it was 2 or 3 hundred feet tall, I guess they needed the hieght to exhaust the coal smoke from that level(more or less) plain. My grandfather said when it was built that a fellow that worked for the distillery wanted to travel with the Smokestack crew, he was given a job with them with the stipulation that if he was still on the crew when they topped out he could go on.He did and my grandfather wondered what became of him, he never made it back to these parts as far as he knew. The crew had finished a stack twice as tall in Europe at a Nickel plant, he said it was completely destroyed about 2 weeks after it was finished by the Nazis. They successfully dropped a bomb into it. He also said the materials for the Deatsville stack was brought in by rail and the workmen of the distillery salvaged some of the stone and sand for their personal use.

I actually had hoped to see smoke from it once more in my life, and unless it's done soon that will never happen. It was such a prominent landmark, and had they lived I wonder what the thoughts of my grandparents would be that it would be removed near the end of 2005.

[cowdery]

How sad. Another one bites the dust.

Picture of T. W. Samuels, Deatsville, taken in April, 2004.

[wku88]

I'll hafta call uncle Art and find out what the deal is. I'm guessing that it was starting to deteriorate, and he wasn't gonna fix it.

His son Jim lives in the depot building out front. If ya stop in to say hey, tell him Todd sent ya (if he needs a reminder, tell him I'm aunt Patsy's boy...he'll knowhatyamean )

Beyond the stack is a grass airfield where they fly the Stearman out of.

[bobbyc]

Okay, the mystery deepens. There's no equipment on site, so perhaps it will be left this way for a bit. Someone in Bardstown must know what is up. I didn't see any movement at the depot,so I'm not sure if Jim was there, Todd.

[bobbyc]

One more pic

[barturtle]

That doesn't look to be in too bad a shape. When was the last time it was in operation?-either as distillery or other use?

I there anything preventing one from walking right up and getting a good look at the site?

[bobbyc]

I there anything preventing one from walking right up and getting a good look at the site?

There is chain link fence around and it is private property but one can see a lot from the road. There was bottling here into the mid 70s at a intermittent rate, no idea what the last distilling date was but I do think I recall seeing smoke as a child, that would have been in the 60s. All the warehousing is in use. Sam Cecil said a pressure cooker for the mash was installed for GNS for WWII and after the war the scorching carried into the distillate and over time just killed the brand. The label is happily in the cat and dog bin at HH, but it's nothing special.

[barturtle]

Yup, a chain link fence is enough to keep me from going any farther. And any place with whiskey in the warehouses is a no-no. But a stroll along the tracks looks like it'll get one a nice look about without causing any trouble.

Good tip: If I ever want to distil my own, do not pressure cook mash.

[NeoTexan]

Careful about the tracks. Around here they have been ticketing folks for using the tracks as a path. Seems it's private property belonging to the RR. Don't know if those tracks are still being used or if the local boys in blue have an issue.

[bobbyc]

Those tracks are being used for the Old Ky Dinner Train. I talked to a model railroader this past summer, and to give you an idea what level he is on, it is outdoor garden railroading and the fellow had over$50,000 in his layout. He told me that some provision of Homeland security makes being on the RR a Federal Offense, and some of his buddies were arrested while following and photographing a train somewhere. That would be something on the order of a steam locomotive or vintage piece doing an excursion and they get ahead of it and photograph it rolling by, then race ahead and do it again.

It is private property, the RR right of Way, I don't know where the dinner train falls but the bigger RR have police powers. I remember an old Railroader who came in one morning visibly shaken,kinda white as a ghost, someone had broken into a boxcar in the yard, he ran and was told to stop once, this guy said. His next warning was a bullet in the back of his head. What cargo was worth him losing his life for? Whiskey! The next time I see him I'll see if he remembers the brand.

[JeffRenner]

Good tip: If I ever want to distil my own, do not pressure cook mash.

It isn't a problem with a properly designed pressure cooker. According to Jim Murray's 1998 Classic Bourbon, Tennessee and Rye Whiskey (Pp. 48 & 50), both Buffalo Trace and Old Forester pressure cook the corn at 240F.

Pressure cooking the mash at distilleries goes back at least to the 19th Century. According to the classic American Handy Book of the Brewing, Malting and Auxiliary Trades by Robert Wahl and Max Henius, Second Edition, 1902, p. 713, "Distilleries had long been utilizing steam pressure for the purpose of dissolving the starch of their raw materials, potatoes and starch."

(BTW, I highly recommend this fascinating book, which offers a detailed look into American brewing practices of the golden age of American lager beer. It can be read online at the above site.)

In the past some breweries have pressure cooked the cereal mash - that is, the non-malt cereal adjuncts - corn and/or rice, before adding it to the main (malt) mash. I don't know if any still do. The ones I know of cook the cereal mash at atmospheric pressure.

I use a 21 qt. pressure cooker to cook the cereal mash in my recreation of what I call "Classic American Pilsner," the typical pre-pro American lager. I also pressure cook a portion of the malt in some all-malt lagers - a kind of pseudo-decoction for those of you who are brewers. However, I don't apply direct heat - I put the mash in a two gallon pot and put this in the pressure cooker. This develops a deeper, maltier flavor than regular mashing or even a regular decoction, with no danger of scorching.

Jeff

[barturtle]

Okay, so stick to the road and stay outta boxcars!

[barturtle]

So, it's not the pressure cooking per se, just that particular one.

The deeper richer flavor makes sense...higher temp more extraction, much like tea doesn't work well at high altitudes-low pressure low temp.

BTW I really like online books. they weigh nothing to carry around(anymore than my laptop which goes along anyway) not quite that same as a nice hardcover, but much more convenient. Only thing better is a .pdf download(a free one of course!) for a good selection of freebie classics check out www.blackmask.com

[wku88]

That doesn't look to be in too bad a shape. When was the last time it was in operation?-either as distillery or other use?

I there anything preventing one from walking right up and getting a good look at the site?

Please remember that it is private property. My uncle is a very gracious man, but he is also very particular. The last usage of the property was to bottle the limestone spring water, and that ended in the late 90's. I won't go into particulars. As far as I know, there is no distillery equipment left. Last time I was there was for a family reunion a few years back, and my cousins used a barn on the premises for their horses. The grounds are kept up, and on the south side of the tracks is the old Deatsville train depot, which my uncle moved there from another location up the line. There are a couple of warehouses on what I know is his property, but I think they are empty. Any in use in the surrounding acreage most likely are not his. While I am sure he would be flattered by the historical interest in the site, I know he would not like folks poking around. Bobby, contact me through e-mail, and I'll see if I can hook you up with Jim.

[wku88]

One more thing: the rail line is owned by the R.J. Corman RR, and as was mentioned, carries a dinner train excursion from Bardstown. I'd recommend it for those that attend the KBF. Railway police have always carried a lot of weight...they are allowed to shoot first and ask questions later. Even before 9/11, railways were identified as critical to national security.

[cowdery]

I have on several occasions, in broad daylight and being deliberately conspicuous, technically trespassed there. It was not necessary to climb any fences or anything else except walk in. I didn't get close to any buildings, but did walk around a little taking pictures. I have also been in one of Heaven Hill's warehouses with some of their people and have seen Maker's Mark people coming and going from theirs. I always park right at the entrance, again so no one thinks I'm sneaking around. I've never had any trouble. My point is that the place is pretty wide open and people come and go regularly to the active warehouses. I haven't poked around to the point of looking in windows or trying to enter any of the buildings, except as I said when with someone who has real business there. You can see pretty much all there is to see from the road, by the two entrances (the property is on both sides of the road) so there's no real reason to walk along the railroad tracks, which just generally is a bad idea, but anyone who wants to see the place should not be discouraged from taking a look.

Just for the heck of it, here's another picture. It was this fairly unusual warehouse design that inspired the stylized warehouse pictured on the front of Bourbon, Straight.

[Ken Weber]

I just stumbled on this thread (been traveling too much). I know your uncle and Jim and Becky. My father worked at GE, but also painted on the side (with 5 boys in the family one job didn't get it done). Anyway, I helped him paint Doc's house and he painted at the distillery in Deatsville. I particularly remember the depot, complete with signage designating black and white restrooms and water fountains.

Doc showed us around the water bottling equipment. He told us that the folks down at Beam would obtain his spring water for special occasions (this was their "branch water").

I haven't seen him in years, but I do agree he is a nice, gracious person.

Ken

[wku88]

Small world, eh Ken? My dad worked at Appliance Park for well over 30 years. He was in Plant 2. I'll see Doc over the Holidays, and I'll mention ya.

Todd